Samsung stops reporting phone sales data as profit slides 18 percent

[*LTD*]

Samsung stops reporting phone sales data as profit slides 18 percent


“Samsung Electronics Co. on Friday said it would stop disclosing sales figures and forecasts for its mobile phones and tablet computers, a step it attributed to business risks and that analysts said was probably due to its continuing legal battle with Apple Inc.,” Evan Ramstad reports for The Wall Street Journal.
“When the company released second-quarter results Friday, the cellphone data were missing. And in a conference call with analysts, executives announced a “new information policy” that would reveal less data about cellphones and tablet computers,” Ramstad reports. “‘As competition intensifies, there are increased risks that the information we provide may adversely affect our own businesses,’ Robert Yi, Samsung’s chief of investor relations, said on the call. He declined a request for further explanation.”

Ramstad reports, “Apple sued Samsung in April, alleging that Samsung copied portions of the design and packaging of Apple’s iPhone and iPad when it designed similar products. Samsung countersued. However, it lost a preliminary ruling in the original case when a judge cited comments by a Samsung executive who said the company redesigned its recently released Galaxy Tab 10 tablet after seeing Apple’s iPad 2.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904888304576475693866644746.html

Kelly Olsen reports for The Associated Press, “Samsung’s net profit slid 18 percent in the second quarter as weakness in semiconductors and liquid crystal displays countered the electronics giant’s growing strength in smartphones.”

“Samsung, the world’s biggest manufacturer of memory chips, LCDs and flat screen televisions, earned 3.51 trillion won ($3.33 billion) in the three months ended June 30, it said Friday in a regulatory filing. Samsung earned 4.28 trillion won the same period last year,” Olsen reports. “net profit slumped 30 percent in the first quarter amid declines in memory chip prices and reduced profitability in LCDs and TVs.”

Olsen reports, “The bright spot in the second quarter continued to be mobile phones. Revenues in the company’s mobile communications business, which includes phones, rose 45 percent from the year before.”

http://news.yahoo.com/samsung-second-quarter-profit-slides-18-percent-034816877.html

----------------------------------------------------------

It's complicated, so best not to talk about it and hope it goes away. Hey it worked for Research in Mo . . . never mind.

I love this line:

"As competition intensifies, there are increased risks that the information we provide may adversely affect our own businesses,’ Robert Yi, Samsung’s chief of investor relations, said on the call. He declined a request for further explanation.”

 

[KingCrimson]

Samsung makes too much cheap junk. No focus. I was thinking about a Galaxy Tab, but then read some reviews of buggy/crashes. my Ipad has never ever crashed.

 

[kdarling]

Let's review:

• Samsung's mobile division is making record profits, double last year's.
  
  
• Samsung's LCD and semiconductor division is making less than last year, because of slower sales.
  
  
• As for refusing to talk about accounting details or future plans, Apple's execs do that in every one of their earnings calls.

Samsung makes too much cheap junk. No focus. I was thinking about a Galaxy Tab, but then read some reviews of buggy/crashes. my Ipad has never ever crashed.

I have a Tab and it's been very reliable. It and the Flyer are my youngest daughter's favorite tablets.

 

[KingCrimson]

If Samsung is doing so well, why not disclose their sales figures? Apple is not shy about reporting their mega #s!

 

[FrozenTomato]

Samsung's smart phone market share increased 500+% but their profit decreased by 18%?

 

[OllyW]

Samsung's smart phone market share increased 500+% but their profit decreased by 18%?

If you bothered to read the first post you would see...

Kelly Olsen reports for The Associated Press, “Samsung’s net profit slid 18 percent in the second quarter as weakness in semiconductors and liquid crystal displays countered the electronics giant’s growing strength in smartphones.”

 

[kdarling]

If Samsung is doing so well, why not disclose their sales figures? Apple is not shy about reporting their mega #s!

Sure, when it benefits them.

For instance, Apple doesn't disclose Apple TV sales. Their excuse is that it's still a "hobby"... no doubt because it doesn't sell well.

Perhaps other companies should take take their lead, and declare some that some of their product lines are "hobbies" as well

 

[FrozenTomato]

If you bothered to read the first post you would see...

I did.

what I was trying to say was that their smartphone business is not that profitable if a HUGE 500+% jump in market share can't offset weaknesses in their LCD and semiconductor business. they must be flooding the market with BOGO phones, cheap/low-margin phones, etc. Samsung's barely earning anything from their smart phone business I would guess.

Again this highlights the importance of all these patent lawsuits against Android manufacturers. Patent royalties Microsoft, Apple and Oracle will collect (collecting) from these android manufacturers are going to eat into any profit they make from selling Android phones and may force them to start using cheaper alternatives like WP7/Meego/etc.

Sure, when it benefits them.

For instance, Apple doesn't disclose Apple TV sales. Their excuse is that it's still a "hobby"... no doubt because it doesn't sell well.

Perhaps other companies should take take their lead, and declare some that some of their product lines are "hobbies" as well

Apple TV doesn't sell well? Logitech fired their CEO for not being able to compete with the Apple TV


Apple selling half a million Apple TVs per quarter.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...per_quarter_but_no_update_planned_for_q3.html

VS.

Logitech CEO Steps Down - Revue Price Drops to $99
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Google_TV/Revue/Logitech/Logitech_CEO_Steps_Down_-_Revue_Price_Drops_to_$99/7358

Google TV returns are outpacing sales
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/google-tv-returns-are-outpacing-sales/

Google TV box flop costs Logitech $34m. More Revues returned than sold.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/29/google_tv_flop_logitech_pain/

 

[KingCrimson]

As far as I know Apple reveals sales figures for all products, even non-hits. My guess is Samsung sales are so pathetic and embarrassing they can't reveal the #s.

 

[OllyW]

As far as I know Apple reveals sales figures for all products, even non-hits. My guess is Samsung sales are so pathetic and embarrassing they can't reveal the #s.

Would you like to show Apple's figures to us?

 

[FrozenTomato]

Would you like to show Apple's figures to us?

its in their quarterly reports.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/07/19Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html

 

[Hellhammer]

its in their quarterly reports.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/07/19Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html

Those are quite general results. Apple doesn't report the sales of individual Macs for instance, only the total amount of sold Macs (sometimes they report the amount of specific Mac when it's selling very well, i.e. it's useful for them to do it). Those reports are also missing sales of Apple TV for example. Apple doesn't reveal everything, nor does Samsung now.

 

[KnightWRX]

Apple is the only company worth a damn and they are always right and good. Every other company is evil and wrong, their products are crap. Hellhammer and Ollyw, you both should know this. Shame on you guys.

 

[OllyW]

its in their quarterly reports.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/07/19Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html

Yes, you've got the figures for the major product lines but not in any great detail.

The Company sold 20.34 million iPhones in the quarter, representing 142 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter. Apple sold 9.25 million iPads during the quarter, a 183 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter. The Company sold 3.95 million Macs during the quarter, a 14 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter. Apple sold 7.54 million iPods, a 20 percent unit decline from the year-ago quarter.

Can you say how many Apple TVs they actually sold last quarter? How about Mac minis, the white MacBook, iPod classic and iPhone 3G? It would be interesting to see the sales for the products that don't get all the headlines. KingCrimson did say "As far as I know Apple reveals sales figures for all products, even non-hits".

 

[*LTD*]

Sure, when it benefits them.

For instance, Apple doesn't disclose Apple TV sales. Their excuse is that it's still a "hobby"... no doubt because it doesn't sell well.

Perhaps other companies should take take their lead, and declare some that some of their product lines are "hobbies" as well

The point is that:

a) When the company released second-quarter results Friday, the cellphone data were missing.

Meaning that the cellphone data is usually there, and

b) The data's removal was unexpected.

All of this means there are problems, the kind that Samsung is pretty intent to hide.

This isn't some TV set top hobby-box. These are SMARTPHONE figures. It's a key market, one that is apparently quite valuable to Samsung and one that is central to their strategy, especially seeing as how they are down in other areas.

So this is not good news. Signs and portents, folks.

 

[kdarling]

what I was trying to say was that their smartphone business is not that profitable if a HUGE 500+% jump in market share can't offset weaknesses in their LCD and semiconductor business. they must be flooding the market with BOGO phones, cheap/low-margin phones, etc. Samsung's barely earning anything from their smart phone business I would guess.

There's no need to "guess" about those earnings, since it's already been pointed out that Samsung's smartphone profits doubled from last year.

Re: Offsetting lower sales in their other divisions, that would all depend on how big those other divisions are.

Re: BOGO, etc. That's a carrier's decision to clear inventory for the next models and to attract customers. Samsung got paid already.

Note that Samsung still had a good profit of over $3 billion. Their LCD and memory businesses simply made a little less than they did last year.

Apple TV doesn't sell well? Logitech fired their CEO for not being able to compete with the Apple TV

And Roku and WDTV and Samsung/LG video players and ... probably worst of all... Netflix players on both Wii and Xbox.

As far as I know Apple reveals sales figures for all products, even non-hits. My guess is Samsung sales are so pathetic and embarrassing they can't reveal the #s.

You and FrozenTomato might want to think about not guessing so much. Please try doing at least minimal research before posting. Facts are our friends.

Samsung sold 19 million smartphones last quarter against Apple's 20 million. The GS2 alone sold 5 million in less time than that, in far fewer countries.

The WSJ seems to think that Samsung simply doesn't want to rile Apple by shoving sales figures under their nose. Perhaps. Or it could be more along the lines of not wanting to give competitors details about how each division is doing.

 

[kdarling]

Yes, you've got the figures for the major product lines but not in any great detail.

For that matter, Apple doesn't seem to want to break out the sales numbers between the iPhone 4 and the much cheaper 3GS (anywhere from 1 cent to $49).

Why not?

Is the 3GS selling almost as well as the iP4? If so, that could support the rumors of a less expensive new model.

Is the Samsung GS2 selling almost as well as the iP4? If so, that could support the rumors of a 4" iPhone to compete.

Apple often plays their cards close to their chest, just like any company. And they're very good at making it seem like they've told us something, when they really haven't.

(PS. Please don't merge me with the message above; it would get lost since this one is much later. Thanks!)

 

[KnightWRX]

For that matter, Apple doesn't seem to want to break out the sales numbers between the iPhone 4 and the much cheaper 3GS (anywhere from 1 cent to $49).

Why not?

Because then, the fan boys wouldn't be able to say "Apple is the #1 smartphone device vendor with a single model".

 

[neiltc13]

I bought one of Samsung's phones in the last quarter - Omnia 7. It's a great phone and I am very impressed. The display is like nothing I have ever seen before - such amazing black levels.

I changed to it from an iPhone 3GS and suddenly I can get 2 bars signal in my house whereas before I got nothing on the same network.

 

[KingCrimson]

There's nothing fishy about $7.3 billion in net income. 20 million iPhones sold. 9.2 million iPads.

 

[rhett7660]

I bought one of Samsung's phones in the last quarter - Omnia 7. It's a great phone and I am very impressed. The display is like nothing I have ever seen before - such amazing black levels.

I changed to it from an iPhone 3GS and suddenly I can get 2 bars signal in my house whereas before I got nothing on the same network.

You sure do go through a lot of phones?!

 

[FrozenTomato]

There's no need to "guess" about those earnings, since it's already been pointed out that Samsung's smartphone profits doubled from last year.

Re: Offsetting lower sales in their other divisions, that would all depend on how big those other divisions are.

Re: BOGO, etc. That's a carrier's decision to clear inventory for the next models and to attract customers. Samsung got paid already.

Note that Samsung still had a good profit of over $3 billion. Their LCD and memory businesses simply made a little less than they did last year.



And Roku and WDTV and Samsung/LG video players and ... probably worst of all... Netflix players on both Wii and Xbox.



You and FrozenTomato might want to think about not guessing so much. Please try doing at least minimal research before posting. Facts are our friends.

Samsung sold 19 million smartphones last quarter against Apple's 20 million. The GS2 alone sold 5 million in less time than that, in far fewer countries.

The WSJ seems to think that Samsung simply doesn't want to rile Apple by shoving sales figures under their nose. Perhaps. Or it could be more along the lines of not wanting to give competitors details about how each division is doing.

Samsung sold 19 million smartphones last quarter, but their profit decreased by 18%. their smartphone division is definitely not making enough money to offset loses in their LCD and semiconductor divisions.

compare that with Apple. 20 million smartphones sold. they earned 66% of the profit of the entire smartphone industry.

As soon as MS, Apple and Oracle starts collecting patent royalties from Samsung, the cost of using Android will be greater than WP7. they won't have any option but to dump Android in favor of WP7/Meego,etc.

It was a guess since Samsung doesn't break down their profit by division. it doesn't matter if their profit from their smart phone business "doubled". if you double a small number it's still small.

 

[kdarling]

Samsung sold 19 million smartphones last quarter, but their profit decreased by 18%. their smartphone division is definitely not making enough money to offset loses in their LCD and semiconductor divisions.

In this thread, nobody cares what a company did or didn't make on LCD TVs and monitors, refrigerators or cars. We're ONLY discussing smartphones.

Heck, Apple sold 20% fewer iPods this quarter than last year. So what. They're not smartphones and do not matter to this discussion.

The only reason the lower profit on other products was brought up at all, was so the OP could handwave and make naive readers think something else was happening.

compare that with Apple. 20 million smartphones sold. they earned 66% of the profit of the entire smartphone industry.

And Apple earned 0% of the profit of the entire LCD TV and semiconductor industry. Once again, that's why those other product sectors don't matter to this discussion.

As soon as MS, Apple and Oracle starts collecting patent royalties from Samsung, the cost of using Android will be greater than WP7. they won't have any option but to dump Android in favor of WP7/Meego,etc.

We don't know if it would be higher or not. Nevertheless, if sales of Android are far greater than WP7, it'd still be well worth it to them to continue making such phones.

After all, Apple is now paying Nokia a patent royalty, with possibly more royalties from other lawsuits to be added, and they don't seem to be abandoning iOS. Smartphones make a lot of money.

The biggest effect might be on the number of low end smartphones.

 

[FrozenTomato]

What is exactly is your point?

What I was explaining was that Samsung's profit from it's smart phone business is miniscule compared to Apple's despite having almost similar number of smart phones sold, and that profit is about to get smaller as soon as MS, Apple and Oracle starts collecting patent royalties from Samsung.

you seem to be basing your arguments on what if scenarios that have little or no chance of ever happening.

meanwhile, my arguments are based on facts, or scenarios that are likely to happen (ie. MS is already collecting pantent royalties from HTC, Samsung is next -Apple won a patent infringment case vs. HTC - Samsng, Motorola, etc. are next, Oracle seems to be winning it's patent dispute vs. Google, etc.)

 

[Rodimus Prime]

What is exactly is your point?

that is the point. You are trying to bring in other points.

Samsung big money maker has been in LCD and silicon chips.

The other stuff is bonuses but not were the big bucks is. Chances are there cell phone department had a huge boost in profits.
You are bending facts.