Sandy Bridge + Light Peak = EOL for Mac Pro & Xserve

[Apple Corps]

per TheStrudel

"However, given that the Mac Pro is marketed as a powerhouse machine,  may just be holding off on updating until they feel like they have something more substantial to put in it."


BINGO

 

[Topper]

I'd rather they waited until there was something much better to deliver. And I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that everybody on this forum, even the most vociferous whiners, would also rather wait for a substantial update than get an incremental, unimpressive one.

I am in agreement but it is starting to look like the new Mac Pro will be coming out shortly.
If so, what kind of substantial update could Apple offer?
.

 

[Apple Corps]

http://www.infoworld.com/d/hardware...-bridge-chips-faster-expected-213?source=rss_

Would some of you that follow cpu roll outs far more closely than I do venture a translation about Sandy Bridge being for laptop and desktop - not servers? I am guessing that it means that the late this year roll out will not be the server class chips BUT Sandy Bridge architecture will be server bound in 2011.

 

[JustinBW]

I do believe that all Macs will only ship with audio ports, and Light Peaks ports. No FireWire, no USB, no ethernet, no display outputs.

Pro Audio:
No doubt some Pro Tools guys are in denial, but Steve has declared total war on Avid/Digidesign with their Apogee/Euphonix/Logic alliance. And by the ridiculously cheap pricing of FCP. Further, it would take nothing for Apogee to design Light Peak X-Symphony cards, and the dsp guys (UA, TC, etc.) will have to rewrite native versions of their plugs.

Why do you say this? Is it because the lack of the FW and USB ports?

More than PTers will be pissed if that happens. Where am I gunna plug in all my dongles???

I really hope the new mps hav fw and usb (3.0) ports.

I have no idea if they will or wont as I do not observe Jobs like you.

 

[Topper]

http://www.infoworld.com/d/hardware...-bridge-chips-faster-expected-213?source=rss_

Would some of you that follow cpu roll outs far more closely than I do venture a translation about Sandy Bridge being for laptop and desktop - not servers? I am guessing that it means that the late this year roll out will not be the server class chips BUT Sandy Bridge architecture will be server bound in 2011.

You've got it.
It's looking like the new Mac Pro will come out shortly with Westmere processors.
If Apple waits for Sandy Bridge, the Mac Pro won't be released until 2011.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Deleted

 

[Block]

You've got it.
It's looking like the new Mac Pro will come out shortly with Westmere processors.
If Apple waits for Sandy Bridge, the Mac Pro won't be released until 2011.

Maybe Intel gave them ultra exclusive access to have it one year early! One can dream...

 

[nanofrog]

http://www.infoworld.com/d/hardware...-bridge-chips-faster-expected-213?source=rss_

Would some of you that follow cpu roll outs far more closely than I do venture a translation about Sandy Bridge being for laptop and desktop - not servers? I am guessing that it means that the late this year roll out will not be the server class chips BUT Sandy Bridge architecture will be server bound in 2011.

The laptop and desktop parts will show first (LGA1155). They have a market for the IGP in lower cost systems (Integrated Graphics Processor).

Server/workstation parts will show up later, as there's more work involved (hint: LGA2011, aka Socket R).

 

[Apple Corps]

I purchased a new MP a few months ago - no regrets at this point regardless of when the next die shrink of Nehalem is released. A Sandy Bridge based MP in mid to late 2011 will be getting a close look from me at that time. But for now I am very pleased with the MP - like many, I needed to upgrade and could not keep waiting.

 

[Roman23]

Later meaning..

Q4 2011 - close to the end of 2011.

I get the desire to panic, I really do.

But everything we've seen thus far only argues that it's too soon to call.

Abandoning Mac Pros is walking away from a lot more money to be made from Final Cut Studio, because that audience will buy one. To eliminate the rather modest workload this machine entails and profit gained from it wouldn't make a lot of sense.

Less design effort goes into making the next Mac Pro than the next iMac, unless they actually do have a huge revision coming.

However, given that the Mac Pro is marketed as a powerhouse machine,  may just be holding off on updating until they feel like they have something more substantial to put in it.

Given how underwhelming the last Final Cut update was, I actually agree with that sentiment.

Oh, and I know this may break your heads to read it, but there is actually more to Apple than Steve. And that's been true for a long time. He actually listens to some of his engineers, if you can believe it. If you think he designs or makes every single decision about every product they make, I've got a few bridges to sell you. Wouldn't surprise me if he ignored Mac Pro development completely until approving the final release or telling them to tweak it a bit.

I'd rather they waited until there was something much better to deliver. And I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that everybody on this forum, even the most vociferous whiners, would also rather wait for a substantial update than get an incremental, unimpressive one.

The laptop and desktop parts will show first (LGA1155). They have a market for the IGP in lower cost systems (Integrated Graphics Processor).

Server/workstation parts will show up later, as there's more work involved (hint: LGA2011, aka Socket R).

 

[nanofrog]

Q4 2011 - close to the end of 2011.

They're trying to get the LGA1155 systems out earlier. Presumably, by ~ Q3 2010 instead of the initial information of Q4. Assuming they actually pull it off, we could see such systems available for Christmas of this year. Keep in mind, that system vendors need time to get their assembly lines and final validation testing completed before systems ship (Intel's dates are when they ship processors, not when those systems actually show up for sale).

The LGA2011 parts won't be available from Intel until Q3 or Q4 2011 (systems won't likely show until early 2012). So we're talking around a year later on the enterprise parts.

 

[cube]

SATA 6Gbps MUST be present, and at this price the ports should definitely be SAS-compatible.

 

[Roman23]

thats what I thought..

Server models wouldn't appear then until close to 2012.. who knows, by then the world will be in serious trouble, as another economic depression has been predicted, but this time on a world wide scale.. according to what has been predicted, jobs will really be scarce to find and possibly the stock market might crash - causing major problems worldwide..

This is supposed to happen in 2012-2013 and possibly beyond.. Still the job market stinks and the economy as whole might be getting a little better.. but the recession is REGENERATING itself.. hense for now, we have a break.

You can't stop the chain of events from happening.. as for the mac pro.. this might have an impact on any future mac pros or even anything as the whole world will be affected.

But, anyway.. we will leave it at Q4 2011-2012 for the server version of Sandy Bridge - which will probably be far out of my price range anyway.

They're trying to get the LGA1155 systems out earlier. Presumably, by ~ Q3 2010 instead of the initial information of Q4. Assuming they actually pull it off, we could see such systems available for Christmas of this year. Keep in mind, that system vendors need time to get their assembly lines and final validation testing completed before systems ship (Intel's dates are when they ship processors, not when those systems actually show up for sale).

The LGA2011 parts won't be available from Intel until Q3 or Q4 2011 (systems won't likely show until early 2012). So we're talking around a year later on the enterprise parts.

 

[nanofrog]

SATA 6Gbps MUST be present,...

I would hope so, but I haven't seen all the details on the chipset yet (i.e. reports that there will be no USB 3.0 support in them, and there's multiple versions; B, Q, H and P sub-groups in Series 6). With this many parts (i.e. business, consumer, performance, type of breakdown), it will likely result in differences between the parts in areas like SATA throughput and drive counts, as well as USB port counts (max is supposed to be 14 USB 2.0 ports). Now whether or not some will offer SATA 3, hasn't fully been disclosed (see the quote below, as it's not looking that good IMO).

What I have found, was the following (take it with a grain of salt, as the original source was Fudzilla, and the original article is "404").

Intel is preparing three new chipsets, where the dominant one comes with a H67 name. The P67 is also quite spec'ed up but the H61 is a more modest and at the same time the cheapest version.

The processors of choice are Sandy Bridge LGA 1155 and they should launch in Q1 2011. The board supports 1x16 PCIe lanes as well as ten USB 2.0 ports. It doesn't’t support Intel Rapid Storage technology but comes with Raid 0,1,5 and 10 and Intel Remote PC Assist technology.

The total number of SATA 2.0 ports is 4 and this chipset won’t bring SATA 3.0 support. It has six PCIe 2.0 lanes and it doesn't’t come with any PCI slots.

The launch date of this chipset is in Q2 2011, a month after its higher spec'ed brother H67 launches.

But these are consumer parts anyway (LGA1155 = consumer processors using DMI connections between the CPU and chipset). I've seen nothing yet on the enterprise systems (will continue to use QPI).

...and at this price the ports should definitely be SAS-compatible.

This almost certainly isn't going to happen, as the workstation/server chipsets to date haven't provided SAS support (and it's usable in this market). Boards that provide it, have to rely on 3rd party chips to add that feature (i.e. LSI or Marvell SAS controller).

Worse yet, Apple tends not to offer such features, even if it's possible (save FW, given the history involved).

 

[Hellhammer]

I would hope so, but I haven't seen all the details on the chipset yet (i.e. reports that there will be no USB 3.0 support in them, and there's multiple versions; B, Q, H and P sub-groups in Series 6). With this many parts (i.e. business, consumer, performance, type of breakdown), it will likely result in differences between the parts in areas like SATA throughput and drive counts, as well as USB port counts (max is supposed to be 14 USB 2.0 ports). Now whether or not some will offer SATA 3, hasn't fully been disclosed (see the quote below, as it's not looking that good IMO).

At least P67 and H67 will support SATA 6Gbit/s, likely all Cougar Points will and Patsburg (X68) should as well (it's the ultimate high-end anyway).

http://www.fudzilla.com/motherboard...ard/intel-6-series-chipset-to-come-in-q1-2011
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2526

 

[theaero]

Avid owns Euphonix. Try again.

 

[cube]

This almost certainly isn't going to happen, as the workstation/server chipsets to date haven't provided SAS support (and it's usable in this market). Boards that provide it, have to rely on 3rd party chips to add that feature (i.e. LSI or Marvell SAS controller).

Worse yet, Apple tends not to offer such features, even if it's possible (save FW, given the history involved).

And it's a disgrace, when relatively inexpensive i7 boards bother to add this feature.

 

[nanofrog]

At least P67 and H67 will support SATA 6Gbit/s, likely all Cougar Points will and Patsburg (X68) should as well (it's the ultimate high-end anyway).

http://www.fudzilla.com/motherboard...ard/intel-6-series-chipset-to-come-in-q1-2011
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2526

The Fudzilla article you linked is extremely basic, and the PCStats article may be inaccurate (i.e. P6X58D Premium board, as it's so close to current nomenclature), as it's early. Not that I'm hoping the latter article is wrong (I'm thinking the enthusiast parts will include SATA 3 support, as it would be a disgrace IMO if it's missing), but ultimately, I'll wait for further information (confirmation, and particularly details as to what chipset offers what).

I've seen such articles before, were the final information differed (i.e. author leaped to conclusions without actual hard facts).

And it's a disgrace, when relatively inexpensive i7 boards bother to add this feature.

I don't disagree, but it is what Apple tends to do. They don't seem to want to add such features if it means 3rd party chips (additional cost and complication to the board design, though not that bad IMO). Nor is it so much in terms of cost, that the margins would be affected significantly (IMO, the additional feature/s would more than "pay for themselves", as it should increase the "system value" = additional system sales as I see it, as there's no need to add in 3rd party cards = additional cost to users).

This is based on the fact DP systems between Apple and other vendors isn't that big of a difference, and would give the MP more of a competitive edge, as it's much closer to the PC versions (same hardware + additional features made possible via 3rd party semiconductors). Could prevent switching to both a PC and different OS, as software licensing and training tend to be noticably more expensive than the cost of the system. This will vary from user to user (especially an independent v. larger corporation). But in general, holds true.

Unfortunately, it seems Apple doesn't see it that way.

 

[Roman23]

Hmm..

Apple sadly, never sees anything in anyone's way.. including jobs.


Unfortunately, it seems Apple doesn't see it that way. [/QUOTE]

 

[nanofrog]

Apple sadly, never sees anything in anyone's way.. including jobs.

Apple's trying to keep the margins high, so anything that could get in the way of that seems to be dismissed. They're also about control. What they don't have control over (i.e. not an open standard), they want to skip (and there's usually licensing fees with such situations as well, such as Blu-Ray).

 

[Roman23]

Nano.. do you remember back in the days..

Before Apple.. the TI-99/4A?? I think Texas Instruments back then was similar to Apple basically following a similar marketing and planning line like TI did in the early 1980's..

The reason why the 99/4a was discontinued and TI decided to pull the plug was because of its own marketing errors and management... I think Apple is heading in that path if it isn't already.. TI also shunned 3rd party developers from enhancing the computer with 3rd party software and peripherals. This makes for an interesting discussion on Apple's management and Marketing divisions as it does seem the follow TI's "closed" architecture focus.. but unlike Apple, TI gave up in March of 1984 when they bowed out of the home computer division..

So, there is to me, a similarity with Apple, and possibly other PC branded companies..

Apple's trying to keep the margins high, so anything that could get in the way of that seems to be dismissed. They're also about control. What they don't have control over (i.e. not an open standard), they want to skip (and there's usually licensing fees with such situations as well, such as Blu-Ray).

 

[nanofrog]

Before Apple.. the TI-99/4A?? I think Texas Instruments back then was similar to Apple basically following a similar marketing and planning line like TI did in the early 1980's..

The reason why the 99/4a was discontinued and TI decided to pull the plug was because of its own marketing errors and management... I think Apple is heading in that path if it isn't already.. TI also shunned 3rd party developers from enhancing the computer with 3rd party software and peripherals. This makes for an interesting discussion on Apple's management and Marketing divisions as it does seem the follow TI's "closed" architecture focus.. but unlike Apple, TI gave up in March of 1984 when they bowed out of the home computer division..

So, there is to me, a similarity with Apple, and possibly other PC branded companies..

Computers started out as proprietary, closed systems. Think of the early IBM mainframes for example, and that design philosophy extended into the early desktops.

This eventually changed due to the cost issues of processor and OS development (vendors buying both Intel and Microsoft products to build their systems around was cheaper than starting from scratch), but it was a roller coaster ride for some vendors before it all settled out. Some companys just made too many mistakes to stay in that market, with some actually vanishing into history.

 

[basic2273]

Where Mac Pro is going

I know this thread is old, but as of March 2011 there are two things that have happened for Apple that will ensure at least a few more years of existence for the Pro line:

1: Final Cut has beat finally Avid. I work in the advertising biz and the guys who edit commercials have almost universally adopted FC. Many Mac Pros w. Thunderbolt (when can I get one please?) will be needed in the machine room.

2: Logic Pro 9 is gradually taking over ProTools territory. I mean really, who wants to shell out $12,000 for a PT system? Plus all the extra $ you have to spend on TDM plugins. When you can get a Mac/Apogee/AU native system that's arguably better, for far less. And you still need the storage/memory/PCI capacity for that kind of rig that you can't get from an i7 powered iMac.

I believe, almost no one will lose. There is no abandoning of pro users. Apple's Consumer line up will eventually get powerfully enough to tackle almost any job. And PCI card duties will get off loaded to external devices in a Thunderbolt daisy chain. There has to be some way to address RAM limits in small machines, etc, but it will work itself out.

Case in point - I'm selling my 2010 MacBook Pro 17" i5 duo core to replace it with a 2011 MacBook Pro 17" i7 quad core that can run Adobe CS5 at sick speeds.

 

[goMac]

1: Final Cut has beat finally Avid. I work in the advertising biz and the guys who edit commercials have almost universally adopted FC. Many Mac Pros w. Thunderbolt (when can I get one please?) will be needed in the machine room.

I'm pretty sure new Final Cut kills any chance of Apple getting rid of the Mac Pro.

 

[ValSalva]

2011 Light Peak = the permanent end of slots. Remember how Steve fought against "slots" for the Apple II? Remember how the original Macs had none? Remember how he loved the Cube? How he loves the Air? Fundamentally, Steve is a minimalist, and truly hates anything extraneous. And by extraneous, I mean to him, not to you.

I believe, almost no one will lose. There is no abandoning of pro users. Apple's Consumer line up will eventually get powerfully enough to tackle almost any job. And PCI card duties will get off loaded to external devices in a Thunderbolt daisy chain. There has to be some way to address RAM limits in small machines, etc, but it will work itself out.

I do believe this is the direction Macs are heading as OS X is sadly in it's last years.

But is there anything less elegant than daisy chaining? In those Intel Light Peak video demonstrations the data transfer speed was amazing, approaching 1GB/sec. But those wires all over the place? What about needing to 'eject' a device in the middle of the daisy chain? What a mess. Not very 'Apple-like.'