Santa Rosa MBP? No thanks!

[MaddieBrad]

Hi Sopranino,

might I suggest you read(!) my observations thoroughly before jumping to conclusions and insinuating people are abnormal. Hmm?

I hate when people post a reply to another post halfway through the thread without reading to the bottom first. Trolls.

Lone Deranger: I am too like you, an utter perfectionist. I work in digital photography. And like you said... Everyone in the industry knows that you cant use a Laptop Screen as a point of reference for color. BUT... These machines are geared towards professional users. They should at LEAST have decent backlighting. I am confused though... I thought that the LED Screen was to rectify all these uneven backlighting issues??? I am a 17" PowerBook user and I was going to upgrade to a SR MBP, but when i found out that the 17" didn't have the LED screen I decided to hold off. Do you think that the release of the 17" LED screen will have the same issues?

One other thing...

I think people are getting the wrong idea about these fancy new LED screens. The LCD panel itself completely conventional. I'm not POSITIVE about this but I think it is the same screen they use in the previous MBP versions. The only thing new is the backlighting. The actual panel itself is the exact same technology as all previous LCD screens.

Which leads me to one last thing...

Do you suppose then since you said you saw the same vignetting on the 17" SR screens as you did on the 15" that it has nothing to do with the LED Backlight, OR the LCD Panel itself? I mean the 15" and 17" panels are obviously different panels. And the 15" has the LED and the 17" doesn't. What is the common denominator that is causing the anomaly? Is there another issue that could cause it?

B

 

[Lone Deranger]

Hi Lone Deranger,

I say you're being overly picky.

addendum: I've been editing HD footage and doing visual work on every Powerbook and MacBook Pro revision since the Aluminum PBs were released, and haven't noticed any degradation in quality from one revision to the next. But that's me...

addendum #2: You could buy a MacBook Pro and swap your "perfect" PB screen into it...just a thought.

Hi MovieCutter,

in all honesty I probably am being overly picky.... Comes with the job I suppose where we scrutinize our shots in our Avid suites endlessly rocking and rolling til we're blue in the face. I'm sure you know a thing or two about this in your line of work too.
I might just give it a try and see how it holds up with me and my daily use.... (I'm not too hopeful though.. I know myself too well).

I hate when people post a reply to another post halfway through the thread without reading to the bottom first. Trolls.

Lone Deranger: I am too like you, an utter perfectionist. I work in digital photography. And like you said... Everyone in the industry knows that you cant use a Laptop Screen as a point of reference for color.......

Hi MaddieBrad,

I guess what irks me the most is that I feel the screens have actually decreased in perceptive quality (atleast in regards to the viewing angle) when compared to a three year old PowerBook. I'm not asking for giant leaps and bounds with every revision and iteration, but to end up with a screen that feels like a step backwards is a bitter pill to swallow.

I too heard all the expectations of the LED technology (wider gamut, more even backlighting, reduced power demands...) As a matter of fact, I try not to let marketing claims influence my interpretations. I go by what my senses tell me and so far I'm not really convinced we are seeing all the claimed improvements.
Besides the narrow viewing angle I also noticed that some of the models in the store showed particularly poor evenness. Darker stationary blotches adding to the shifting (depending on the position of your eyes in relation to the screen) falloff (noticable on bright backgrounds). Certainly no improvement to most other conventional LCD panels I've seen over the years.
Perhaps this new backlighting technology is still in it's infancy and will eventually overcome these problems.

As for the source of this problem I really couldn't say, don't know enough of the technology to make informed an statement. However, I am tempted to believe, based on my observations, that the backlighting is not the sole reason, though I don't want to rule it out entirely. The 17" indeed appears to have similar problems, even a bit stronger than some of the 15" models I saw. Probably because the screen is larger and the angles to the corners are greater there.

I would advise you visit an Apple Store and bring in your old PB just like I did and see what the situation is like. Maybe all the stores in central London got a bad batch from Cupertino.

 

[PDE]

I don't think these are the same panels as the previous MBPs but with a different backlight. The previous ones had that terrible grain and these don't. Also the manufacturer is different: Samsung and LG vs mainly AUO and Chimei with the previous 15" MBPs. Maybe the Samsung ones are the same as the previous samsung panels?

In any case, the ones that don't have the 1/3 yellow problems are infinitely nicer to use than the previous ones IMO.

 

[Lone Deranger]

Hi PDE,

interesting thing is, I didn't notice any untoward yellowing in the lower 1/3 of the screens on display. The worst I saw was on a Samsung based 15 incher, but what little yellowing it had was within my limits of being acceptable so to say.

I don't think these are the same panels as the previous MBPs but with a different backlight. The previous ones had that terrible grain and these don't. Also the manufacturer is different: Samsung and LG vs mainly AUO and Chimei with the previous 15" MBPs. Maybe the Samsung ones are the same as the previous samsung panels?

In any case, the ones that don't have the 1/3 yellow problems are infinitely nicer to use than the previous ones IMO.

 

[MovieCutter]

Hi MovieCutter,

in all honesty I probably am being overly picky.... Comes with the job I suppose where we scrutinize our shots in our Avid suites endlessly rocking and rolling til we're blue in the face. I'm sure you know a thing or two about this in your line of work too.

Yup, but as you likely know, you never go by what you see on your laptop display anyway. You always pump it through some scopes and/or a professional monitor before you go to broadcast or distribution anyway...unless it's YouTube...in which case, who the hell cares?

 

[PDE]

Hi PDE,

interesting thing is, I didn't notice any untoward yellowing in the lower 1/3 of the screens on display. The worst I saw was on a Samsung based 15 incher, but what little yellowing it had was within my limits of being acceptable so to say.

I've had three now, all LG, and one had some yellow at the bottom right half. However, i went to tekserve in NYC and the one they have on display was a samsung and awfully yellow in the bottom 1/3. The LGs were all acceptable and really quite nice (even the one with a little yellow was ok), but the Samsung was really quite ugly and something I would not want to work with on a daily basis. It seems there is considerable variation....unfortunately it's another gamble situation for the MBP customer.

 

[MaddieBrad]

I found this link on another thread.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8741-9027

B

 

[dcv]

interesting thing is, I didn't notice any untoward yellowing in the lower 1/3 of the screens on display. The worst I saw was on a Samsung based 15 incher, but what little yellowing it had was within my limits of being acceptable so to say.

The one or two 15" matte MBPs I looked at at the Regent St store had LG panels and didn't exhibit the lower 1/3 yellow tint. Out of the 3 Samsung panel defective MacBook Pros I've bought and returned there, one did have this problem, one had uneven backlighting particularly around the bottom and the third had a fine display but returned due to power management faults. There are plenty of reported issues with the MacBook Pros but I haven't seen these issues on the display models in-store. My earlier "funny angles" comment was made because there have been so many threads made on similar subjects recently where people keep confusing real issues (the actual 1/3 yellowness when viewed straight on) with non-issues (seeing 'yellow' when viewing from ridiculous angles, which you just don't do, when actually using your notebook).


If you decide to get one but find you're not happy with your purchase you have 14 days in which to refund or exchange it.

 

[Lone Deranger]

Indeed... I don't judge colour critical work on my laptop.
The finnicky nature of LCD's is starting to become a problem at our facility though. We're about 450-500+ artists many of whom need screens providing colour accuracy on their desks, ruling out cheap and readily available LCD panels. With affordable and professionally calibrate-able CRT's becoming nearly impossible to find it would be comforting to see steady improvements in LCD colour reliability. I'm sure we'll get there at some point though.

Yup, but as you likely know, you never go by what you see on your laptop display anyway. You always pump it through some scopes and/or a professional monitor before you go to broadcast or distribution anyway...unless it's YouTube...in which case, who the hell cares?

That's an interesting article I'll be sure to read thoroughly. Quickly skim reading through it, it seems they have also noticed the very narrow viewing angles that have raised my hackles. Good to read that the gamut is indeed larger (although marginally so when compared to the 15" Alu PB screens) and that it plays nicely under calibration. Not sure I'd agree with the evenness, but this admittedly differs from screen to screen.

dcv: I haven't seen many of the reported yellowing issues either on the display models... Just the narrow viewing angles (and blotches on some models).

I found this link on another thread.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8741-9027

B

 

[jmilliron]

I still can't understand why people try to view their screens at funny angles and not straight on

It's strange. I've had my SR MBP for two weeks now and use it regularly in three or four different situations. Zero complaints about the viewing angle.

/shrug

 

[xpovos]

Lone D,

For what it's worth and in spite of others' replies to the contrary, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone in your line of work to steer away from current MBP offerings. While I imagine that no VFX pro would send out a final cut done solely on any laptop, the MBP's perceived standing as a premium, professional product implies some measure of quality or accuracy that, admittedly, is somewhat lacking in the current offering.

I own a hi-res 17" and absolutely love the screen for what I do with it, but my line of work is diametrically opposed to yours. Looking at my laptop's screen objectively and despite my liking it so much, I can honestly say that if I were having to work with images and video on a constant basis, I would probably despise the thing, for the very reasons you cite.

My comments here are likely to draw fire, but all of this is not to say that I don't think the current MBPs have high-quality displays; it's just that I wouldn't want to work on them for anything requiring the perfection that your work demands. For a more "average" consumer, these screens are without a doubt very nice---but the "average" consumer isn't really the MBP's theoretical target audience.

 

[noway]

I still can't understand why people try to view their screens at funny angles and not straight on

Some people can't admit that something is perfect (for the moment at least)

 

[Lone Deranger]

Hi xpovos,

thank you for that very understanding and courteous reply.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm sure there are many perfectly happy MBP users out there. An overwhelming majority probably. Of that majority some may simply not have the visual sensitivity or trained eye to notice such issues (like I am unable to detect differences between various levels of higher order audio encoding) whereas others, like yourself, do notice but are not troubled by them for various reasons.

It's encouraging to see somebody understanding that what is good enough for them might not necessarily be good enough for others. Internet forums lack such liberal thinking at times.


To noway: There are many things one might claim to be perfect, to me, the SR MBP screen isn't one of them.

Lone D,

For what it's worth and in spite of others' replies to the contrary, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone in your line of work to steer away from current MBP offerings. While I imagine that no VFX pro would send out a final cut done solely on any laptop, the MBP's perceived standing as a premium, professional product implies some measure of quality or accuracy that, admittedly, is somewhat lacking in the current offering.

I own a hi-res 17" and absolutely love the screen for what I do with it, but my line of work is diametrically opposed to yours. Looking at my laptop's screen objectively and despite my liking it so much, I can honestly say that if I were having to work with images and video on a constant basis, I would probably despise the thing, for the very reasons you cite.

My comments here are likely to draw fire, but all of this is not to say that I don't think the current MBPs have high-quality displays; it's just that I wouldn't want to work on them for anything requiring the perfection that your work demands. For a more "average" consumer, these screens are without a doubt very nice---but the "average" consumer isn't really the MBP's theoretical target audience.