HomeKit Scenes regularly disappear

[harleytat]

I have a couple Kasa outlets at my work that I turn on and off simultaneously using scenes. However, every few weeks, those scenes disappear, as if they never existed in the first place. This has probably happened a half dozen times. It seems to be totally random, and not related to any way I'm triggering or interacting with them. The only devices that interact with these scenes are my iPhone 13 Pro, Apple Watch, and M3 MBP, all on the latest OS versions.

Anyone know of a way to get things to the point where this no longer happens?

 

[erihp]

I wonder if this is related to where you are and where the home hub is.

Lets start with: do you have a home hub at work? (Apple TV, Homepods)

 

[harleytat]

We have an Apple TV at home as a hub (and also three HomePod minis), but I have no hub of my own at work. That said, there's at least one Apple TV on the network at work, but it's not associated in any way to my Apple ID, etc.

 

[dotme]

You might need a hub at work. The "New Architecture" is a weird animal and I don't know why Apple did it that way, but it seems like you can't mix architectures on your devices. Either all homes must be upgraded (in which case a hub is required for each) or none of the homes can be upgraded.

If your "Home" is running on New Architecture, "Work" probably needs to as well. The only other explanation I can think of is that a device you own is overwriting your HomeKit config, effectively "rolling it back" periodically. Perhaps an iPad that's only turned on once in a while, for example.

 

[erihp]

I dont think it's necessarily an architecture thing, its a, how is your hub at home going to be able to run a scene stored on it across the internet to devices in your office?

Firstly, there is no network path from your hub at home to communicate with the devices on the (w)lan at work.

However, when you are there, your phone is able to communicate with the devices. If the phone is aware of the scenes this may explain why sometimes you see the scenes available and sometimes you don't, depending on where you are.

You might opt to get another ATV or homepod for the office and set it up as a distinct 2nd 'Home'. If all you plan on using are simple wifi devices at the office, you could get away with any 4th gen ATV to act as a hub.

 

[dotme]

You might opt to get another ATV for the office and set it up as a distinct 2nd 'Home'

The way I read the screenshots, "Work" is already a separate home since that's the name at the top, with Default Room listed below. I agree I think it needs its own hub.

 

[erihp]

The way I read the screenshots, "Work" is already a separate home since that's the name at the top, with Default Room listed below. I agree I think it needs its own hub.

Yep, just stressing the point.

But come to think of it I'm blanking on where in the AppleTV setup you create a new home or (add to an existing). I suppose it attempts to detect if there are other Hubs on the LAN, and if it does - it joins, if it doesn't - it can create a new home? Cant remember how that works.

 

[waw74]

it's in the + menu at the top of the home app where add new accessory is, there's a "add new home" option

 

[erihp]

it's in the + menu at the top of the home app where add new accessory is, there's a "add new home" option

I know that, but I'm talking about linking it to the other AppleTV on a separate network/location.

Ive got multiple homes but their hubs are linked to their own icloud accounts and shared with mine.

This case has two Apple TVs on separate networks attached to the same iCloud account.

Again, I can only guess that in this case the phone sees the AppleTV on the same LAN, and then gets elected as the (only) hub for that network/segment/vlan when a 'new home' is added through the Home app in the secondary location/network.


Edit: Thinking through this gave me another idea!

Completely separate (perhaps not even from your device) setup a new Home via Home app on an iPad or iPhone logged into the work iCloud account. Reset and re-link the plugs to this new home, with the hub being the ATV already at the office. Setup your scenes there. Share and give full access to the Home you created in the work iCloud account with your icloud account. Accept the invite in the Home app on your personal device and now you dont need to buy another ATV, yet you get both Homes and scenes working anywhere

 

[waw74]

I'm talking about linking it to the other AppleTV on a separate network/location.

you can't do that.

you might be able to sort something out with a VPN, but homekit requires network broadcasts, which can be problematic on VPNs. and more than likely would be more trouble that it's worth, Plus homekit is not really set up to have different homes on the same hub, so you would wind up with everything in the same home.

This case has two Apple TVs on separate networks attached to the same iCloud account.

it doesn't

There are 2 locations
--at home with hubs
--at work with no hubs (there is "at least one aTV", but doesn't sound like they belong to the poster, so aren't logged into his appleID, so for this case, they're basically non-existent)

Ive got multiple homes but their hubs are linked to their own icloud accounts and shared with mine.

homekit can handle multiple homes on the same appleID, but each home must have a hub located there.
you've made it more complicated than it needs to be by having multiple appleIDs involved.

 

[erihp]

you can't do that.

you might be able to sort something out with a VPN, but homekit requires network broadcasts, which can be problematic on VPNs. and more than likely would be more trouble that it's worth, Plus homekit is not really set up to have different homes on the same hub, so you would wind up with everything in the same home.



it doesn't

There are 2 locations
--at home with hubs
--at work with no hubs (there is "at least one aTV", but doesn't sound like they belong to the poster, so aren't logged into his appleID, so for this case, they're basically non-existent)


homekit can handle multiple homes on the same appleID, but each home must have a hub located there.
you've made it more complicated than it needs to be by having multiple appleIDs involved.

youve got me all wrong. we've moved on; him needing a hub at each location is established. in fact i am the one who recommended it.

in my last comments, i was postulating about the two hubs (in different locations), one icloud scenario, and i still think it would work. Each ATV in both locations would be the hub for its own home and can only see and work with the devices added to that home and visible on its respective LAN.

and what im doing with -my- shared homes isnt wrong or complicated. they all have separate icloud accounts because the devices (and homes) belong to another individuals and their icloud accounts. Via the sharing function you can have full access to multiple homes and not be 'more complicated than it needs to be'.

I was simply stating that im familiar with using a multi-home setup, but not with two hubs at two different locations on my single account. That said, I think it would work as i described in my previous post.

ALL that said, he could just setup the plugs on the office's ATV existing icloud account and then within Home, share the office 'home' with his personal icloud and be done.

he doesnt have to buy anything else, doesnt need to share his home, and doesnt need longterm access to the icloud account of the work ATV, only to setup and share the home.

if one works in a small, friendly office, others could do the same thing and share the OfficeKit! Prepare for pranks