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Been using Ulysses for quite a few years now. It is great, but I don't believe it even remotely deserves to be a rental app. It had basically all of its features years ago, and these days they just noodle around with little word counters and screw up the interface periodically to keep the Mac and iPad versions parallel.

Sadly, I'm rather locked in with many hundreds of thousands of words written in it -- but I'm always on the lookout for an alternative. I've checked out Scrivener a few times, but the interface looks a bit kludgy and sync seems like a full on disaster as the OP said. If they ever get around to overhauling it, I'd give it a look. I don't mind paying for quality tools, but Ulysses pulling $40 out of my pocket every 12 months to add a "writing stat tracker" or whatever doesn't sit well with me.

I do love writing in Pages, but I'm filled with dread at the prospect of setting up a zillion folders and tags to organize my stuff half as well as Ulysses does.
I bought Ulysses license few teras ago (when it was still non-subscription). I use it intensively dering my college. The closest one with Ulysses is (IMO) iA Writer. It’s one time purchase.
However, I found that Scrivener is much better fit for my needs. I don’t have concerns on Dropbox sync (I used the free one, but capacity is around 18gb).
 
I also bought Ulysses as a one-time purchase some time ago. No buying into a subscription where I am the one creating the content and the value. Still use the old version and it is totally sufficient.

i have also started to work with Obsidian. Sync is via iCloud and very reliable. Solid alternative that is free to try.
 
I vaguely remember scrivener originally being incompatible with iCloud because of the non-standard way it packaged up its files…. Cant remember the specifics. More of an iCloud limitation than scrivener as Dropbox handled it just fine.
 
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I vaguely remember scrivener originally being incompatible with iCloud because of the non-standard way it packaged up its files…. Cant remember the specifics. More of an iCloud limitation than scrivener as Dropbox handled it just fine.
I am still wondering, if not iCloud, why didn’t they try other cloud like pCloud, onedrive, or standard WebDAV, etc?
 
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I pay for Agenda and use it a lot at work. I really think they're doing the "subscription" thing the right way. If you're satisfied with the features that you have bought, you can stop paying and use them if you'd like. If more features come along that you want, you can pay again to get those features. It's more or less like a normal one-time purchase, but done more incrementally.
This looks interesting. I can't try it all, as that requires buying features, which I'm not ready to do yet. How does it compare to something like Evernote or Joplin? It looks a little bit more intuitive vs. the "folder based structure" of other apps. Are you using it for larger projects where you have to take notes for subprojects and do a bit of writing as well?
 
I have written my PhD Thesis on Ulysses for the last few years. I started originally on Scrivener but got tired of it’s clunky interface and syncing issues. For me Ulysses is well worth the subscription. The freedom to write on any device and not worry about syncing is the real sell. I am constantly writing on my phone and revising and editing at my desk. There are many community export templates, or you can build your own. I even have my computer watch a folder for changes and convert markdown to incopy files that automatically import into an indesign document. This is so much more useful for me than Scrivener‘s confusing export options. There are very few barriers in Ulysses to stop your writing. There are a lot of haters but for £40 a year if you use it daily it’s a great tool.
That seems a complicated workflow. In science, the predominance of Endnote and its integration with MS Word mean this predominates. Many years ago I put my thesis together in FrameMaker – this was perfect, so rule based and extremely stable. It has taken Indesign quite a long time to catch up. Of course we were on obligatory hand written lab books then. As the universities start to introduce mandatory electronic lab books things may be get easier - with time. I have no idea who these things get done in the arts.
 
In science, the predominance of Endnote and its integration with MS Word mean this predominates.
Never really used Word for scientific writing. I found that the further people move away from math, the more likely they focus on Word. The people I've worked with who had a focus on abstract concepts, such as design concepts and patterns in software engineering were more likely to use Word than those developing the underlying algorithms and math behind it.

You mentioning Indesign and FrameMaker is interesting. I've never worked with FrameMaker if I remember correctly and Indesign I've only used for posters. Most of my typesetting I've done with Latex and that is still the most dominant tool for me when publishing. For note taking and drafting, I don't think there's a right tool, but many tools that do the job, be it Scrivener, Evernote, DevonThink, Joplin or others. As for reference managers, Bookend grew on my, but it's Mac only so might pose an issue for collaboration.
 
This looks interesting. I can't try it all, as that requires buying features, which I'm not ready to do yet. How does it compare to something like Evernote or Joplin? It looks a little bit more intuitive vs. the "folder based structure" of other apps. Are you using it for larger projects where you have to take notes for subprojects and do a bit of writing as well?
Have never used Joplin and haven't used Evernote in a long time.

I think you can wade into Agenda using the free version to get a feel for it. The purchasing of features is great because they don't expire. You could pony up for them once and be done with it, or go back to the well later if they add something you really like.

I use Agenda mostly as 1) a repository for reference material and 2) at work as a way to make and keep track of notes on projects I'm managing. Any note you take can be linked to a calendar event (i.e. a meeting) and it'll pull in the date and also the details of the calendar event (who was in the meeting). There are H1, H2, H3 styles and some decent outlining formatting. You can create to-dos but there's no real central place to track them across projects so I keep those elsewhere. It's pretty easy to mention someone with a tag like @ben and then search for those tags later, which is helpful. It's very stubbornly a single-window interface, which may be an asset or a limitation depending on your preferences. I know I'd like to have a few things side by side at times, but also recognize that can get cluttery very very fast if you're not careful.
 
I know Pages is one writing app that effortlessly syncs in iCloud. But I'm trying to find a Scrivener-type writing app that is iCloud-friendly? I like having chapters and sections but have had sync disasters with Scrivener that have resulted in lost projects and productivity.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
I’ve been curious about the sync in Scrivener. If I store the files in icloud and only ever open it from one computer at a time, is there any sync issue? It seems like iClound sync should work well enough in that scenario. Obviously If I am simultaneously accessing from multiple locations or am doing a quick switch, you could could catch it before the iCloud sync was done, but I don’t plan to use it that way.
 
That seems a complicated workflow. In science, the predominance of Endnote and its integration with MS Word mean this predominates. Many years ago I put my thesis together in FrameMaker – this was perfect, so rule based and extremely stable. It has taken Indesign quite a long time to catch up. Of course we were on obligatory hand written lab books then. As the universities start to introduce mandatory electronic lab books things may be get easier - with time. I have no idea who these things get done in the arts.
It is. I’m a doing a PhD in design. My thesis format requires a grid-based layout that cannot be achieved in word.. multiple columns, image grids across multiple pages etc. the need to have a single source of truth is vital. I have seen other fall foul of importing their ‘final’ text into indesign and in the end having to manage changes in multiple locations. Indesign is quite basic for citations and footnotes but it works. With a bit of work done up front with styles (think page and column breaks) the layout become quite automated. Incopy is the app used by publishers to manage multiple user editing. Here it is used to see if any incopy files have a more recent created date (automatically created from a watch folder of markdown.) In which case I manually approve the update in indesign and it puts everything in the right place. For referencing I actually use Papers which merged with ReadCube. Like their previous version it’s taken about 3 years to get to a good product but now it’s really useable and I have no complaints. I have tied ALL reference managers and this is (for me) the best of an imperfect selection.
 
It is. I’m a doing a PhD in design. My thesis format requires a grid-based layout that cannot be achieved in word.. multiple columns, image grids across multiple pages etc. the need to have a single source of truth is vital. I have seen other fall foul of importing their ‘final’ text into indesign and in the end having to manage changes in multiple locations. Indesign is quite basic for citations and footnotes but it works. With a bit of work done up front with styles (think page and column breaks) the layout become quite automated. Incopy is the app used by publishers to manage multiple user editing. Here it is used to see if any incopy files have a more recent created date (automatically created from a watch folder of markdown.) In which case I manually approve the update in indesign and it puts everything in the right place. For referencing I actually use Papers which merged with ReadCube. Like their previous version it’s taken about 3 years to get to a good product but now it’s really useable and I have no complaints. I have tied ALL reference managers and this is (for me) the best of an imperfect selection.
Interesting reading. I haven't looked at Papers since 3. We use Indesign for our student books and I do like it (and during my PhD I provided computer support for a friends small publishing house), but we wouldn't encourage our students studying medical/veterinary and related disciplines such as virology or bacteriology to use anything but Word. The learning curve of using many other things would be counterproductive. I see how when doing a PhD in design tools like creative suite are essential knowledge.
 
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Do any of the apps mentioned export to Kindle as easily as Scrivener does? That’s one of the main reasons I still use it for final output - but the bulk of drafts and writing is done in Pages.
 
Obsidian

  • Free for personal use
  • Works on Mac, iPad, iPhone, Windows, Android, Linux
  • Syncs using iCloud
  • 50 billion zillion trillion times better, faster, more reliable, more flexible, more functional, and more regularly updated than Scrivener
 
Do any of the apps mentioned export to Kindle as easily as Scrivener does? That’s one of the main reasons I still use it for final output - but the bulk of drafts and writing is done in Pages.
Not used it myself but…

 
Do any of the apps mentioned export to Kindle as easily as Scrivener does? That’s one of the main reasons I still use it for final output - but the bulk of drafts and writing is done in Pages.

Pages -> EPUB

Open in Calibre

EPUB -> Mobi (or any other format you want). Produces a much cleaner Mobi file than what Scrivener can produce.

EDIT: Here, the head of support for Scrivener tells users to use Calibre, not Scrivener for Mobi conversion.
 
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