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SLC Flyfishing

Suspended
Nov 19, 2007
1,486
1,717
Portland, OR
Pentax K20D is weather proofed as well and so far has been getting stellar reviews. Their DA* line of lenses are also weather proofed completing the system. But as others have said, if there's even a chance that the camera will be submerged then you better go for a diving case for it.

SLC
 

npederse

macrumors newbie
Mar 21, 2007
18
0
my $0.02 ....

I'm a Canon fan and always have been. Their user interface just works for me, while I have a hard time using Nikons (my cousin is the opposite, go figure).

Either of these are excellent cameras for their purpose, so I think you'll do fine with either. FWIW, I know that if you don't use very good, L glass on the 5D, you'll be disappointed -- the large sensor seems to show the difference much more so than on a 40D or comparable. With that in mind, and your budget, I'd seriously consider the 40D instead, as it will get you into the Canon system and allow extra $$ for some high-quality lenses, like a 70-200 f/4 IS (great lens).

I can't comment on the D300, other than to say the logic is still the same -- buy the next step down (D80) and purchase an additional lens.

You can always upgrade to the next body.
 

termina3

macrumors 65816
Jul 16, 2007
1,078
1
TX
I'd suggest putting money into a proper housing, skimping on the body, and putting whatever remains into good glass.

I say this b/c in your position I'd insist on the camera's continued reliability.
 

annapolitan

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 3, 2008
6
0
In my original research I read that some of my 40-yr-old Pre-AI lenses will mount on the D40 and D40x (maybe even the D60) with no problems except for no meter function. On the D100, D200, and D300, some people seem to think it will mount if you spend some time modifying the lens, but then others say it won't mount under any circumstances. In any case, I wouldn't want to modify these lenses if I couldn't continue to use them on the old camera.
 

termina3

macrumors 65816
Jul 16, 2007
1,078
1
TX
In my original research I read that some of my 40-yr-old Pre-AI lenses will mount on the D40 and D40x (maybe even the D60) with no problems except for no meter function. On the D100, D200, and D300, some people seem to think it will mount if you spend some time modifying the lens, but then others say it won't mount under any circumstances. In any case, I wouldn't want to modify these lenses if I couldn't continue to use them on the old camera.

They all use the same F-mount. That doesn't make any sense.
 

law guy

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2003
997
0
Western Massachusetts
\

The 5D is a good camera, but it is two years old. If you're on the fence, I would get the D300 based on that alone, unless you want to wait for the 6D (or 5D Mk II, or whatever they're going to call its replacement), whenever that happens.

Either is a lot of camera. The 5D was perhaps just ahead of its time, I can't say that I understand the comment above. It's noise performance is as good as the D3 with the detail-destroying software noise reduction in the D3 turned off (D3 with NR on and off, part way down the page: http://www.outbackphoto.com/CONTENT_2007_01/section_gear_cameras/20080111_Nikon_D3/index.html ; 5D without NR - http://www.outbackphoto.com/reviews/equipment/canon_5D/Canon_5D_review.html) and the 5D still appears to be able to deliver much better in terms of resolving power / sharpness than the 2-year newer Nikons - http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3/sharpness-1.htm ; and http://clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326811 [strange forum for it] ... oops that last one compared the sharpness of the D3 vs the 10 MP, 10 FPS 1D Mk III, oh well, I'll leave the link as it's interesting)

It's not to say that a D300 wouldn't be great - Scott Kelby can't say enough good things about it (http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2007/archives/811) and it's Popular Photography's Camera of the Year (http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/4857/camera-of-the-year-2007-nikon-d300.html). I just don't understand the knock on the incredible performing 5D because it's two years old - two years ago was very different perhaps in the Nikon world and that's projected in the comment. The 5D is still used by folks like Dennis Reggie, Art Wolfe, etc.(plenty of 5D users here http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=ArtistsListAct) - I just don't see it as obsolete or a bad choice based on its age alone.
 

law guy

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2003
997
0
Western Massachusetts
Nikon is on the good side of the Force.

Canon is on the bad side.

;)

The Canon company started with the Kwanon camera - the first 35 mm focal plane shutter camera made in Japan. Kwanon is the Buddhist goddess of mercy, that sounds like the good side of the force. But "Nippon Kogaku K.K" is warm and fuzzy too.
 

pdxflint

macrumors 68020
Aug 25, 2006
2,407
14
Oregon coast
I don't know much about the Canon, but Canon's are excellent cameras. So are the Nikons. Personally, I'd opt for the Nikon D300 because it's basically got all the metering and focus technology that the D3 has, and I prefer Nikon's flash technology. A review of the D300 can be found in the latest issue of Shutterbug, but they haven't uploaded the text to their website yet (too bad.)

Full frame is useful, but not necessary. Granted, I lust after the D3, and eventually if they make a full frame derivative of the D300, that might be my choice, especially with the new pro lenses Nikon is releasing. The 14-24f/2.8 would be a stunner on full-frame, and gets exceptional reviews, equaling the best primes at either end of it's focal range in edge sharpness, resolution, distortion and CA elimination. These lenses will set you back from $1700 on up though, each.

I'll quote a few paragraphs (not in original order) from Shutterbug's review written by George Schaub in the March edition of the print magazine. It'll probably be on the website shortly.

"This is a camera that you can program to deliver just the color (and contrast, etc) you want for every subject and scene. Like most cameras, you can choose presets that reflect the opinion of the maker as to what constitutes Vivid, Standard, etc. And like other cameras you can insert your take on things by going into the menu and creating nuances of sharpness, saturation, brightness, contrast, and even hue variations for the presets. But the D300 takes it all a bit further. In the Shooting Menu choose "Manage Picture Control," then "Save/Edit." You can then play with all the parameters as you will, which will of course be subject to testing to ensure it's where you want it to be. Then you can actually rename the setup as "Wintertime" or "Fall Foilage" or "Portraits" or whatever. You can also do this with Monochrome/Filter combinations."

"Nikon then takes this a step further, again, by allowing you to save the Picture Control setup to a memory card, making that card, in essence, a type of "film" that has a particular set of parameters. Then, when you load this card you merely select that Picture Control (by uploading it) to your or a fellow shooter's camera. You can also create custom Picture Controls using Nikon software and uploading that to a memory card, or the camera."

"There are a number of interesting new features that come with the package, such as linkage of exposure, focus control, and white balance that Nikon dubs their Scene Recognition System (SRS). This is an extension of their 3D Matrix Metering II setup, where the framed shot is analyzed by the 1005 segment sensor for light and color and then referred to a look-up table for and exposure solution. Now the analysis includes subject motion and highlights, as well as being able to "infer" light sources for white balance settings. Nikon of course keeps how this works close to the vest, but for me the proof is in the pudding, and I have to say the that Matrix meter and SRS delivers some of the most intuitive exposures I have yet to see from and evaluative-type system. In some cases it matched what I accomplished with some very careful spot metering and exposure compensation techniques."

"There are also 48 custom settings to help you set up the controls and options of the camera to your heart's content and assign various functions to however you want the camera to handle."

"There's also an "active" D-Lighting option that can be chosen to deal with highlight control, said to yield improved contrast rendition and wrestle with the bane of digital photography, too-hot highlights. You set this before making the shot, or shots, not as a Retouch menu item after exposure and review (which is still available.) This "active" D-Lighting control can be used to open up the shadow area in a contrasty scene. Now you can play with the tonal curve before exposure. There are three Active options - low, medium and high - and knowing which one to choose will be a matter of experience."

"In all, the exposure and focusing systems in this camera is quite uncanny. In the past makers have always hinted at total exposure control, and that their evaluative, matrix, or whatever system delivered the goods in all types of lighting conditions. Exposure should never be taken for granted, and there are numerous lighting conditions that can trip us all up, but I have to say that the D300 gets pretty close to figuring out many of the lighting scenarios that would have caused many more problems in the past."

"The build, heft, and ease of control access certainly make this a strong contender for the hearts and minds of serious photographers. Making great exposures with swift focusing is at the heart of any such camera. The D300 delivers the above with breathtaking ease, and much, much more in the bargain. There's no question that for the very serious Nikon fans and pros there will be a toss-up between this and the new FX (full frame) D3. There's simply no more waiting for the "other (full frame) shoe" to drop in the Nikon line-up. It might come down to price, or to how important wide and super wide coverage is to your style of work, given the D300's 1.5x focal length magnification. I can only say that the D300 is one formidable camera and unquestionably the flagship in the Nikon DX-format line-up. In fact, the D300 is, in many respects, a D3 with a smaller sensor. Given the $3000 price spread between the D3 and the D300 there may be no debate at all."
 

OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
Why do you say that?
Read my post above: weather sealing and quality lens budget reasons (you need top-of-the-line lenses with the 5D, otherwise the image quality you get is meh). I advised to look at the Canon 40D and the Olympus E-3 in addition to the D300. If you decide to go Canon, you will almost certainly be better off with a 40D.
 

-hh

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2001
2,550
336
NJ Highlands, Earth
The consensus for this question is usually, "go to a store and feel the two camera to figure out which you like better."

And here I thought the consensus was "hey, you should buy whatever I decided was good for me" :D

Full frame - I don't think that's any big deal at all. I currently use a full-frame Nikon D3, but never had ANY issues or disappointment with the 1.5x crop on all my previous cameras...

YMMV. On my crop body dSLR, I've really missed the WA that I had with my film camera. Sure, I could solve the problem buy just buying a new WA lens, but it would have to be one of the digital-only mounts. As such, I see going to a FF camera the better long term solution. FWIW, this concern becomes even more profound when I'm looking at replacing my UW camera system, which has a Nikonos V with a 15mm lens, as typically, putting an SLR behind a flat port narrows its field of view by 20%, so now I'm spending $600 for a good large dome port on top of all of the other 'convert to digital' expenses.



My only reservation for getting 5D now would be upcoming "5D Mark II" update...

Someone else mentioned a release date ETA of 3 Oct 08...dangit, I'll be on a dive trip. Supposedly, one of the Mk2 features is rumored to include is live preview.

Back to weather proofing. A housing for an SLR will make either camera work well even scuba diving. But housings are not cheap. The low-end housing from (say) Ikilite will set you back something like $2K. You can buy a housing for a point and shoot for under $200. These are also suitable for diving and are 100% waterproof. You can do good work with a good P&S.

Agrreed. I've been figuring around a $5-$6K hit on my pocketbook to have a good housed dSLR system, even with the "cheap" Ikelite housing. If you're near the surface and can avoid dropping big bucks for UW strobes, go with the frugal P&S systems.

A big problem is salt drying on the lens or other places to prevent this I keep my housed cameras when not in use in a big tub of saltwater kept on the boat just for storing cameras. Some boats have bait tanks and if there s no bait they make good places to store housed camera gear.

The main thing here is to minimize the wet/dry cycles and to this end, leaving them wet in salt water is better than letting them air dry. Before letting it dry out, one should do freshwater rinsing & soaks, so as to minimize the accumulation of dried salt crystals on the system's O-rings, in particular on "non-user servicable" O-rings, which is the polite way of saying "...gunked up in places that you can't clean it out of..." and which generally calls for sending the equipment in for periodic professional servicing.


-hh
 
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