MP 6,1 Selling Mac Pro - is it a dead end?

[The_Interloper]

I'm seriously considering throwing in the towel and selling my 6,1 Mac Pro trashcan and switching fully to Windows. I'm in a bit of a unique position as for work reasons I have both the Mac Pro and a powerful Ryzen 7 desktop PC on my desk that share my 4K monitor and peripherals via a USB switch.

I bought the Mac Pro on a bit of a whim just over 18 months ago as a retailer here in the UK was selling off the quad core version for £1299. Since then, I've upgraded it to a 2TB NVMe SSD (with adapter), 32GB RAM and an 8-core Xeon 3.3GHz processor. It's a nice machine and plenty fast but it doesn't change the fact that the components are effectively six years old and the hardware seems like it's at a dead end.

The lack of Thunderbolt 3, un-upgradable D300 graphics cards and worrying future OS support (even Sidecar in Catalina won't work) makes me feel that Apple has basically discarded this machine and the longer I keep it, the less value it will have.

The downside to all of this is that I resent replacing it with, say, a 2018 Mac mini that thermal throttles and has terrible integrated graphics. I'm not interested in an iMac or any of Apple's current laptops due to the butterfly keyboard issue. The new Mac Pro is out of the question price-wise. Since I already have the desktop PC (complete with Nvidia card), I feel like just sticking with that but as a Mac user of over 20 years it gives me a sinking feeling.

This is exacerbated by not being dependent on any particular Apple software. I am fully in the ecosystem (iPhone, Watch, iPad Pro etc) but this feels a little like the beginning of dismantling it. Is it worth keeping the Mac Pro for a few more years or should I just bite the bullet and sell it while I can still get a decent price for it? Genuinely conflicted and hoping some of you might have some opinions on my predicament.

 

[vel0city]

What do you use the Mac for? Difficult to give advice if we don't know what you use the 6,1 for.

 

[frou]

The lack of Thunderbolt 3, un-upgradable D300 graphics cards and worrying future OS support (even Sidecar in Catalina won't work) makes me feel that Apple has basically discarded this machine and the longer I keep it, the less value it will have.

Well that's a certainty, rather than just a possibility.

Since you're not particularly attached to any Mac-exclusive software, it comes down to the OS itself. Does it pain you to spend your days in Windows, vs macOS? Probably not, by the sounds of things.

Your iPhone/iPad/Watch are pretty self-sufficient and aren't gimped much or at all by the lack of a Mac.

 

[s.m.t.]

Well that's a certainty, rather than just a possibility.

Since you're not particularly attached to any Mac-exclusive software, it comes down to the OS itself. Does it pain you to spend your days in Windows, vs macOS? Probably not, by the sounds of things.

Your iPhone/iPad/Watch are pretty self-sufficient and aren't gimped much or at all by the lack of a Mac.

This is what has kept me upgrading my 4,1... The thought of using Windows... Nothing wrong with Windows, as a system engineer in IT I used it daily. But I have come to prefer Mac OS over the past 12 years I have been running it at home as my primary OS as well as the integration with the rest of the Apple ecosystem. It really disappointed me that Apple made the new Mac Pro so expensive, or at least didn't offer a more cost effective fully expandable tower.

I have never used a 6,1... But it I was in your shoes I think I would sell it off and get a 5,1 and make it last as long as you possibly can... But it all depends on your love for Mac OS vs switching to Windows...

 

[frou]

The 2018 Mac Mini isn't universally ideal as a 5,1/6,1 replacement, but it's not bad either.

I'm running one with 32GB RAM, Vega64 eGPU, dual 5K monitors, etc, and would never go back to my former 5,1 for the way I use them (software development).

 

[The_Interloper]

What do you use the Mac for? Difficult to give advice if we don't know what you use the 6,1 for.

I run voice recognition software (Dragon) which has been discontinued recently for macOS so I'm using it in a VM via Parallels and natively on the desktop PC. Everything else is general everyday business stuff - Office, Affinity Photo and some video editing via Davinci Resolve (the lack of QuickSync is also hurting this as I mainly ouput to H264).

Since you're not particularly attached to any Mac-exclusive software, it comes down to the OS itself. Does it pain you to spend your days in Windows, vs macOS? Probably not, by the sounds of things.

I wouldn't say it pains me at all to use Windows (I also have a Surface Pro) but I have to admit to an emotional connection to the Mac after two decades on the platform.

Your iPhone/iPad/Watch are pretty self-sufficient and aren't gimped much or at all by the lack of a Mac.

True. The integration (phone calls, Handoff, Continuity, AirDrop etc) is nice though - but not essential.

It really disappointed me that Apple made the new Mac Pro so expensive, or at least didn't offer a more cost effective fully expandable tower.

I have never used a 6,1... But it I was in your shoes I think I would sell it off and get a 5,1 and make it last as long as you possibly can... But it all depends on your love for Mac OS vs switching to Windows...

Yeah, as a middle-aged dad with other hobbies and responsibilities I'm starting to wince at some of the pricing. The new Mac Pro is just beyond anything I'd ever be willing to pay; I'm running a small business but I cannot justify £6k+, it's just ludicrous. Thanks for the suggestion but I also don't want to go for even older hardware with the 5,1 (or mess with Hackintosh).

I guess I'm just convincing myself to stay with the Mac despite having a very powerful, modern PC. The writing may be on the wall for this one...

 

[s.m.t.]

True, you would be going backward to older hardware which is effectively marked end of life without official support in 10.15. But for me, I don't see that as a negative as the benefits of running Mac OS on hardware that I can continue to swap and upgrade is too great of an asset for me. I never tried the mackintosh route, but I figure if Apple doesn't release hardware that meats my needs then at some point that might be inevitable...

I have two MacBooks Pros, and iMac in my house now that I never paid full price for (either purchased used or through the refurbished store), let alone the countless others now long gone (resold). I could never justify paying for Apple's premium cost of entry to the Mac ecosystem...

 

[Flint Ironstag]

So you're not doing anything where you're constrained by the d300s or Thunderbolt 2. Sidecar will probably work with a terminal hack, and 3rd party solutions already exist. Use what you have and enjoy it?

 

[The_Interloper]

So you're not doing anything where you're constrained by the d300s or Thunderbolt 2. Sidecar will probably work with a terminal hack, and 3rd party solutions already exist. Use what you have and enjoy it?

You're probably right. The D300s aren't a constraint although I am slightly concerned about their long-term reliability (there's a thread on here citing kernel panics due to graphic failures).

 

[binaryduke]

The 2018 Mac Mini isn't universally ideal as a 5,1/6,1 replacement, but it's not bad either.

I'm running one with 32GB RAM, Vega64 eGPU, dual 5K monitors, etc, and would never go back to my former 5,1 for the way I use them (software development).

Why’s that? I’m asking as a web and Windows developer currently using a 12 core 4,1 flashed to 5,1 with NVME SSDs and a WX4100 feeding 3x 4K displays. I’m having the same Mac Mini twitches....

 

[Onelifenofear]

Nothing you are doing is remotely taxing for even the D300 Mac Pro. They are constrained but a Mac mini is more powerful these days and you can add an eGPU and it will fly ( it does I have one ) and use it for rendering and the throttling is really minimal. Parallels is probably where you are can be using the CPU the most and the latest version is a lot lighter on the CPU.

I also have a Hackingtosh with a i9 and 1080ti which is great and I only did it because windows directly is horrible. Oddly Parallels makes windows usable!

Failing that - I might have the Mac Pro off you

 

[Ph.D.]

Yes, the 6,1 is old, and the 5,1 is even older. They are both "dead-ends" in the long run (as are we all), and I can no longer recommend either. But sure, you can use the 6,1 for quite a few more years if it's not holding you back.

(You didn't say why you are against an iMac, but the 2019's are very fast and nice machines.)

Otherwise, if you dread living with Windows as your only operating system, you can consider dual-booting Linux and Windows. I wince and feel dirty and vulnerable on the security front every time I boot Windows, and detest it in general. But I'd rate a good Linux distro as similarly secure and robust, if not even more so, than Mac OS, and there are many quite good desktop environments available. I use Manjaro / KDE at present (just my preference for now, especially as it can use and keep Nvidia drivers up to date automatically - I have a 2080ti - but there are plenty others), and its installer is set up to install alongside Windows almost automatically. Give it or another one a try?

 

[deconstruct60]

...
The lack of Thunderbolt 3, un-upgradable D300 graphics cards and worrying future OS support (even Sidecar in Catalina won't work) makes me feel that Apple has basically discarded this machine and the longer I keep it, the less value it will have.

Apple is still selling the Mac Pro ( it is indirect on the USA web site but if slow down to almost the bottom of the web page for the new system you'll see the 'buy' button for the still current one. (because the new one still hasn't shipped. ).

Perhaps Apple has stopped making them but even if they started the Vintage/Obsolete clock earlier this year there is still lots of time that they have to support those systems (at least hardware wise). Apple Vintage Obsolete policy . the 2013 Mac Pro probably will see at least 3 more years of OS updates because Apple has painted themselves into that corner too.

As for Sidecar not being covered, I think that is probably as much a nudge to new equipment as it is limiting the amount of development/testing time/resources it consumes for now. Apple is basically doing a "Sherlock" here to some extent ( there are 3rd party apps that highly overlap). Gaps in the coverage somewhat lessen the blow as oppose to dropping the biggest megaton nuke possible on the current vendors.

The MBA starts off coverage with the 2018 version. while the MacBook starts in 2016 . Errrr.... even though the MBA 2015 was 'speed bump" updated in 2017 too (but with a 2015 era chip). Looks like they took Skylake ( i classs gen 6 ) and forward (which just consists of warmed over Skylake) . That also happens to get Sidecar onto only the "drama" keyboard Mac laptops too. No Mac Pro but the 100+% increase entry price one.

However, I wouldn't view Sidecar as the tip of the iceberg. It looks more like an experiment that Apple wants to run with a wider audience for a year or two before they make some changes. (i.e., more touch bar systems , pen/touch macs , and a couple of others. ) If it sells more iPads then gravy on top. It isn't really a core OS feature. And 3 years from now evolved into something different on either iPadOS and/or macOS side. So some sense to drop the pre 2016 systems from the experiment now.

If the Mac Pro 2013 was missing Metal n+1 or new CoreLibrary XYZ then that would be an issue.


On the pre 2013 Mac Pros, if support by Apple is an issue that's going backwards. they aren't missing Sidecar. They are missing all of 10.15 official support. ( hacks to nudge them closer to hackintosh status can probably equally be applied to the MP 2013. ). The older Intel CPUs are slower at running VMs. So going backwards there too. New GPUs aren't a panacea cure all.

Timing the maximum used price selling market typically isn't very productive. Since you have already put upgrades into the system and they handle your workload for the most part.... just get the utility out of that capital outlay and just move on later.

 

[jinnyman]

If whatever you are doing on Mac is not taxing your current mac pro, why should you upgrade?
I’ve opt not to go 6.1 back then, but, I’d keep it if I was using it as a personnel computer.

 

[The_Interloper]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. It's given me a lot to think about.

I might have the Mac Pro off you

I'll bear that in mind!

You didn't say why you are against an iMac, but the 2019's are very fast and nice machines.

I already have a decent 27" 4K monitor and will still need to use the PC occasionally. An iMac will mean another monitor on my desk and way more expense, so it's a no-go.

if you dread living with Windows as your only operating system, you can consider dual-booting Linux and Windows.
...
Give it or another one a try?

I tried to use Linux (mainly Mint) exclusively for almost a year but had to go back to Windows/Mac as the apps I need on a daily basis - Dragon, Office, Photoshop etc - didn't work well via Wine or at all. Even something as simple as installing a printer involved the command line and I simply didn't have the inclination to keep at it any more. I also require 100% compatibility with Word (publishing industry) so anything other than MS Office doesn't quite cut it. Love the Linux and FOSS ethos/philosophy though - but it just isn't quite there for business use.

Timing the maximum used price selling market typically isn't very productive. Since you have already put upgrades into the system and they handle your workload for the most part.... just get the utility out of that capital outlay and just move on later.

If whatever you are doing on Mac is not taxing your current mac pro, why should you upgrade?
I’ve opt not to go 6.1 back then, but, I’d keep it if I was using it as a personnel computer.

Yup. Makes sense. After taking all of this on board I think I'm going to keep the Mac Pro and enjoy the continued functionality with my other Apple devices, safe in the knowledge I should get a good few more years and OS versions out of it yet.

 

[ssgbryan]

I guess I'm just convincing myself to stay with the Mac despite having a very powerful, modern PC. The writing may be on the wall for this one...

I was grappling with the same issue. The OS isn't worth it anymore. I am off to a Ryzen 9 3900 system. A $2,000 system will outperform a $6,000 system from Apple. If I need more than 12 cores and 128 Gb of ram, I can move to Threadripper when the TR5 sockets become available.

Apple doesn't want us as customers anymore.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. It's given me a lot to think about.


I'll bear that in mind!


I already have a decent 27" 4K monitor and will still need to use the PC occasionally. An iMac will mean another monitor on my desk and way more expense, so it's a no-go.


I tried to use Linux (mainly Mint) exclusively for almost a year but had to go back to Windows/Mac as the apps I need on a daily basis - Dragon, Office, Photoshop etc - didn't work well via Wine or at all. Even something as simple as installing a printer involved the command line and I simply didn't have the inclination to keep at it any more. I also require 100% compatibility with Word (publishing industry) so anything other than MS Office doesn't quite cut it. Love the Linux and FOSS ethos/philosophy though - but it just isn't quite there for business use.




Yup. Makes sense. After taking all of this on board I think I'm going to keep the Mac Pro and enjoy the continued functionality with my other Apple devices, safe in the knowledge I should get a good few more years and OS versions out of it yet.

One cannot overstate the importance of having a Mac that "just works". TB2 is still twice as fast as USB3.x, and you can certainly add a couple of eGPUs to your 6,1 if needed.

Maybe 2020 will finally be the year of Linux on the desktop.
.
.
.
Bahahaha!

 

[killawat]

The 2018 Mac Mini isn't universally ideal as a 5,1/6,1 replacement, but it's not bad either.

I'm running one with 32GB RAM, Vega64 eGPU, dual 5K monitors, etc, and would never go back to my former 5,1 for the way I use them (software development).

Likewise except I have 64 Gb and a RX580. I have a small USB fan on top of mine, $20 extra bucks for enhanced cooling. It's a great machine. The iGPU is terrible, I agree, most everyone I know with a MacMini has an eGPU as well, but enclosures are only $199 nowadays and you can add it when needed.

I hang out around these forums as there is so much AMD/GPU hacking going on nowadays.

 

[Ph.D.]

I was grappling with the same issue. The OS isn't worth it anymore.

First, I'm glad that the OP will stick with the 6,1 for now. No reason to ditch it prematurely!

But the above comment about the OS not being worth it anymore has been a thought in the back of my mind for quite a while now.

Like the OP, the main reason I still have a Mac (i.e., haven't moved 100% to Linux) is because of legacy apps such as Word, Photoshop 6 (pre-cloud), and so on. Almost all of these are old, old, old, and getting more fragile. One day these will break so badly that I will have to abandon them. Meanwhile, Microsoft's office applications, for example, will soon only be available via the web, the way they are pushing that.

In a few years, unless I need a modern OS-specific application like Final Cut, there may be little reason to stay with Mac OS.

 

[The_Interloper]

A quick update. After much deliberation, I sold the Mac Pro 6,1 a week ago. I removed the 2TB NVMe SSD and reinstalled the 256Gb stock one, threw it on eBay and it sold in less than 24 hours.

I really thought long and hard about it and took all the above comments on board. In the end, I couldn't get past the age and long-term prospects for the machine and figured this may have been my last chance to get top dollar for it - so pragmatism won over emotion in the end.

I haven't made a decision on whether to replace it yet. For now, technically, I have – with the PC I already had. It's struck me how easily I've been able to transition full-time to Windows and, in all honesty, having no issue with it. That should be a real concern for Apple in the long-term, that 20+ year Mac users can so easily switch. Maybe that says more about current Windows than the Mac, I don't know.

As for everything else, I'm still on board with iPhone, Apple Watch, two TV boxes and an iPad Pro. It seems strange no longer using a Mac day-to-day but, who knows, I may return in the future if I simply get sick of Windows or Apple produce something irresistible. Once again, thanks to all of you for your help and advice.

 

[thornslack]

I run voice recognition software (Dragon) which has been discontinued recently for macOS so I'm using it in a VM via Parallels and natively on the desktop PC.

Are you aware that OSX has had integrated dictation capability for some time? Not sure how it compares to dragon as the last time I used that was ages ago. But in my fiddling around it seemed very passable.

 

[The_Interloper]

Are you aware that OSX has had integrated dictation capability for some time? Not sure how it compares to dragon as the last time I used that was ages ago. But in my fiddling around it seemed very passable.

Yes, and the new Voice Control dictation in Catalina and iOS 13 is even better. But it’s still only good enough for casual use and nowhere near the level of Dragon. Sadly, for anyone using this technology for professional use now, the only viable software is on Windows.

 

[TimTheSheriff]

A quick update. After much deliberation, I sold the Mac Pro 6,1 a week ago. I removed the 2TB NVMe SSD and reinstalled the 256Gb stock one, threw it on eBay and it sold in less than 24 hours.

I really thought long and hard about it and took all the above comments on board. In the end, I couldn't get past the age and long-term prospects for the machine and figured this may have been my last chance to get top dollar for it - so pragmatism won over emotion in the end.

I haven't made a decision on whether to replace it yet. For now, technically, I have – with the PC I already had. It's struck me how easily I've been able to transition full-time to Windows and, in all honesty, having no issue with it. That should be a real concern for Apple in the long-term, that 20+ year Mac users can so easily switch. Maybe that says more about current Windows than the Mac, I don't know.

As for everything else, I'm still on board with iPhone, Apple Watch, two TV boxes and an iPad Pro. It seems strange no longer using a Mac day-to-day but, who knows, I may return in the future if I simply get sick of Windows or Apple produce something irresistible. Once again, thanks to all of you for your help and advice.

Are you still happy with your decision to sell your MP 6,1? How's Windows treating you? I'm kind of in the same shoes -- MP 5,1, 2015 MBP, iPhone, Apple Watch, iPad Pro 10.5, and multiple Apple TVs. The yet-to-be released Mac Pro are a bit out of my price range currently especially when I could build/buy a PC with equivalent specs for much less.

I've been with Mac computers since 2005 and love MacOS, but I've been looking elsewhere due to some of the choices that Apple has been making lately (extreme pricing, bad keyboards on the laptops, cooling limitations, etc). My MP 5,1 has performed really well especially for being 10 years old now. I'm wondering if an investment in the new MP would be a good use of my money (might it also 10 years?), or if a workstation PC could also last as long as my MP 5,1 has lasted. Using Windows, tho…. I use Windows 10 at work, and it's not terrible.

 

[The_Interloper]

Are you still happy with your decision to sell your MP 6,1? How's Windows treating you? I'm kind of in the same shoes -- MP 5,1, 2015 MBP, iPhone, Apple Watch, iPad Pro 10.5, and multiple Apple TVs. The yet-to-be released Mac Pro are a bit out of my price range currently especially when I could build/buy a PC with equivalent specs for much less.

I've been with Mac computers since 2005 and love MacOS, but I've been looking elsewhere due to some of the choices that Apple has been making lately (extreme pricing, bad keyboards on the laptops, cooling limitations, etc). My MP 5,1 has performed really well especially for being 10 years old now. I'm wondering if an investment in the new MP would be a good use of my money (might it also 10 years?), or if a workstation PC could also last as long as my MP 5,1 has lasted. Using Windows, tho…. I use Windows 10 at work, and it's not terrible.

More than happy. I'm kind of sad to say that I don't miss the Mac Pro one bit and am enjoying the sheer power of the 8-core Ryzen desktop that has replaced it. Within a week of the sale, I went one step further and got rid of my MacBook as well – going from a puny 12-inch dual-core M-series processor to an HP ZBook x360 with touch and pen input, a six-core i7, 32 gigs of RAM and multiple upgradable SSD slots. All for £999!

If anything, I feel liberated and staggered at the low-cost and incredibly powerful options that are available out there. I still have an iPhone, Apple Watch and iPad Pro but am even starting to second-guess keeping those. Seriously tempted to replace the iPad Pro with the regular new 10.2 inch iPad as I would probably pocket hundreds of pounds difference for a virtually identical experience. I will always keep an iPad around no matter what, as nothing beats it in the tablet space.

The Apple TVs are in the process of being replaced with Fire HD 4K sticks running Plex.

As for Windows 10? No problems or issues. The sheer amount of customisability and software available is staggering and, more importantly, I can now natively run Dragon voice recognition software without the need for a virtual machine. I don't regret my 20+ years on the Mac, but it's going to take something monumental (and a serious price readjustment) for me to ever come back.

 

[AxiomaticRubric]

The downside to all of this is that I resent replacing it with, say, a 2018 Mac mini that thermal throttles and has terrible integrated graphics. I'm not interested in an iMac or any of Apple's current laptops due to the butterfly keyboard issue. The new Mac Pro is out of the question price-wise. Since I already have the desktop PC (complete with Nvidia card), I feel like just sticking with that but as a Mac user of over 20 years it gives me a sinking feeling.

If you can hold on to your 2013 Mac Pro a bit longer, just wait until the cost of the new Mac Pro goes down.

Traditionally Apple always applies prestige pricing to brand new products. They did this with the original MacBook Air (classic example) and the new Mac Pro is no different.

They take advantage of pent-up demand to get a higher profit margin for the shiny new things. The price will go down over time after the market has been saturated a bit, when the new Mac Pro has fully taken its place as a regular member of the Mac lineup.

Also, when the new Mac Pro is updated, the cost of the model due for release this Fall should be much more affordable, either through third parties or refurbished from Apple.


EDIT: Missed your most recent post.