Server for a new school

[Cineplex]

I would not believe that OS X Server is shrinking.

1) QuickTime Streaming server removed.
2) Managed & published printing removed converted to client CUPS...rubbish.
3) Advanced apache settings removed from server admin (multi hosting now way more complicated).
4) VPN configs removed.
5) iChat server control reduced/removed.
6) DNS config removed.

Those are just off the top of my head.

 

[satcomer]

1) QuickTime Streaming server removed.
2) Managed & published printing removed converted to client CUPS...rubbish.
3) Advanced apache settings removed from server admin (multi hosting now way more complicated).
4) VPN configs removed.
5) iChat server control reduced/removed.
6) DNS config removed.

Those are just off the top of my head.

Misinformation!

4) VPN:

6) DNS:

5) iChat is no longer being used, think Messsages!

3) Web site in OS X server:

You can look up the rest very easily!

 

[Cineplex]

Misinformation!

4) VPN:

6) DNS:

5) iChat is no longer being used, think Messsages!

3) Web site in OS X server:

You can look up the rest very easily!

Misinformation??! I think not. Maybe if you actually used this product you would know what you are talking about.

3) Did you read what I wrote? it is MISSING things!

4) VPN is simplified and different compared to previous versions.

5) iChat not being used....that is "MISINFORMATION"! Messages has NOTHING to do with iChat/Jabber server. iChat is still a very heavily used service in companies with OS X Server. Do you understand the difference between iChat the client and the iChat service? Doesn't seem so.

6) Do you know what DNS even is? The DNS server for OS X is not the same as a dynamic DNS provider. That video has nothing to do with it.

I am all for debating....but doing a YouTube search to try to prove someone wrong is not a good way to make a point. If you have some REAL evidence from ACTUALLY using the product yourself in an enterprise environment...okay. But if your just going to do internet searches to prove a point and defend the all mighty Apple, I'm not interested.

 

[satcomer]

Misinformation??! I think not. Maybe if you actually used this product you would know what you are talking about.

3) Did you read what I wrote? it is MISSING things!

4) VPN is simplified and different compared to previous versions.

5) iChat not being used....that is "MISINFORMATION"! Messages has NOTHING to do with iChat/Jabber server. iChat is still a very heavily used service in companies with OS X Server. Do you understand the difference between iChat the client and the iChat service? Doesn't seem so.

6) Do you know what DNS even is? The DNS server for OS X is not the same as a dynamic DNS provider. That video has nothing to do with it.

I am all for debating....but doing a YouTube search to try to prove someone wrong is not a good way to make a point. If you have some REAL evidence from ACTUALLY using the product yourself in an enterprise environment...okay. But if your just going to do internet searches to prove a point and defend the all mighty Apple, I'm not interested.

You seem to just want to talk down server! I bet you never used OS X Sever!

Messages has been there just after Messages came out. iChat is old service now.

 

[Cineplex]

You seem to just want to talk down server! I bet you never used OS X Sever!

Messages has been there just after Messages came out. iChat is old service now.

I do want to talk it down because nobody should be using it. Apple is just going to kill it one day and everyone is going to be stuck with legacy technology. OS X Server is not as great as it once was...now it is a hobbyist toy. What a great server platform...IT HAS NO SERVER TO RUN ON!!! Do you REALLY consider a Mac Mini or an iMac a server grade piece of technology???? If you do, you have clearly never actually seen a real server and must not understand the complexity of enterprise systems. OS X Server is reaching the end of the line. Soon Apple will not be able to justify the expense. I am surprised it lasted this long. No Xserve, no Xserve Raid, no Final Cut Server, no QTSS. The writing is on the wall in LARGE letters. Put the Kool-Aid down and think about this logically for a minute.

And for the record.....I have been using Mac OS X Server since the Rhapsody days (an not that is not a music streaming service). Before that, I was installing systems running System7 with AppleShare IP.

Again....do you have any real arguments?

 

[satcomer]

I do want to talk it down because nobody should be using it. Apple is just going to kill it one day and everyone is going to be stuck with legacy technology. OS X Server is not as great as it once was...now it is a hobbyist toy. What a great server platform...IT HAS NO SERVER TO RUN ON!!! Do you REALLY consider a Mac Mini or an iMac a server grade piece of technology???? If you do, you have clearly never actually seen a real server and must not understand the complexity of enterprise systems. OS X Server is reaching the end of the line. Soon Apple will not be able to justify the expense. I am surprised it lasted this long. No Xserve, no Xserve Raid, no Final Cut Server, no QTSS. The writing is on the wall in LARGE letters. Put the Kool-Aid down and think about this logically for a minute.

And for the record.....I have been using Mac OS X Server since the Rhapsody days (an not that is not a music streaming service). Before that, I was installing systems running System7 with AppleShare IP.

Again....do you have any real arguments?

So you want a full Server but will not put invest in a Linux Sever. Go back to school because Microsoft Sever is being replaced by Linux Severs because of the draconian sever yearly server fees! OS X Sever is the best what to manage i devices add it to your domain to manage OS X clients too.

 

[Cineplex]

So you want a full Server but will not put invest in a Linux Sever. Go back to school because Microsoft Sever is being replaced by Linux Severs because of the draconian sever yearly server fees! OS X Sever is the best what to manage i devices add it to your domain to manage OS X clients too.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Who said anything about Linux???????? OS X is UNIX not LINUX...big difference. Clearly you have ZERO idea what you are talking about. Maybe you should "go back to school" as you appear to have zero knowledge of the industry. OS X Server is not free, by the way. Windows does NOT charge yearly fees for Windows Server. Stop spreading nonsense. Linux is also hardly free....it comes with zero support. If you use Linux in an enterprise environment on mission critical systems...you will have a maintenance contract with someone...just like Windows and Mac.

Maybe learn about the enterprise environment and work in it before you start giving advice to people about it.

 

[Altemose]

1) QuickTime Streaming server removed.
2) Managed & published printing removed converted to client CUPS...rubbish.
3) Advanced apache settings removed from server admin (multi hosting now way more complicated).
4) VPN configs removed.
5) iChat server control reduced/removed.
6) DNS config removed.

Those are just off the top of my head.

I agree that Apple has migrated to new technologies and lacks the configurability, but what I meant by stating that I did not believe that Server was shrinking was that Apple is merely changing the target market. I apologize that I did not make that more clear. Back in the days of OS X 10.4-10.6, Server was a fully enterprise class server operating system. With 10.7, Apple made it a layer to be added upon OS X, rather than an independent operating system.

Quite honestly though, I don't think that anyone can blame them. Aside from certain corporations and universities, OS X Server was rarely deployed. Microsoft and in some instances UNIX servers were the go to platform. Since Microsoft essentially set the standards, no one would consider Apple. Furthermore, OS X Server's cost due to the fact that it was an entirely different OS put it out of reach to the average guy looking for a good home server, small businesses, and smaller educational institutions. While some view OS X Server as dying, I see it simply as rebirthing an old product to a new market. The market that Apple goes for with Server 10.7 and up is one that Microsoft hardly plays in, and Linux is not as widely used.

Think about it this way, Microsoft sells various editions of Windows Server for various target markets. Some versions lack the functionality that even OS X Server offers, and others have user account limits and other forms of nonsense. Apple tried the corporate full functionality that Microsoft offered, but they made barely a dent into the market and made very little money off of it as it was out of reach to many. Let Microsoft handle the high powered servers that power our government, universities, and corporations; let Apple handle the home users, the schools, and the smaller businesses. I know $20 is a very safe price for the features offered, and I don't see Microsoft offering anything in that category.

 

[satcomer]

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Who said anything about Linux???????? OS X is UNIX not LINUX...big difference. Clearly you have ZERO idea what you are talking about. Maybe you should "go back to school" as you appear to have zero knowledge of the industry. OS X Server is not free, by the way. Windows does NOT charge yearly fees for Windows Server. Stop spreading nonsense. Linux is also hardly free....it comes with zero support. If you use Linux in an enterprise environment on mission critical systems...you will have a maintenance contract with someone...just like Windows and Mac.

Maybe learn about the enterprise environment and work in it before you start giving advice to people about it.

Um most kids will be lucky to get a job. Every small business I have seen dumped Microsoft Server after the yearly Server fees increases and then look to Linux servers. Since then Imurge any kid looking into Server training since just relying on know just one server would be a recipe for disaster!

To let you know I seen and work in systems for the Lat 25 years child! Even the Goverment is switching to Linux server. Next time your in site look around and you will be surprised. By the way the next time you turn in radio your hearing auto software that was recorded or piped in from satellite, running on Linux Servers!

Most small business use Lunux servers because of the unlimited licenses for clients and using Google services for email and docs.

 

[Cineplex]

I agree that Apple has migrated to new technologies and lacks the configurability, but what I meant by stating that I did not believe that Server was shrinking was that Apple is merely changing the target market. I apologize that I did not make that more clear. Back in the days of OS X 10.4-10.6, Server was a fully enterprise class server operating system. With 10.7, Apple made it a layer to be added upon OS X, rather than an independent operating system.

Quite honestly though, I don't think that anyone can blame them. Aside from certain corporations and universities, OS X Server was rarely deployed. Microsoft and in some instances UNIX servers were the go to platform. Since Microsoft essentially set the standards, no one would consider Apple. Furthermore, OS X Server's cost due to the fact that it was an entirely different OS put it out of reach to the average guy looking for a good home server, small businesses, and smaller educational institutions. While some view OS X Server as dying, I see it simply as rebirthing an old product to a new market. The market that Apple goes for with Server 10.7 and up is one that Microsoft hardly plays in, and Linux is not as widely used.

Think about it this way, Microsoft sells various editions of Windows Server for various target markets. Some versions lack the functionality that even OS X Server offers, and others have user account limits and other forms of nonsense. Apple tried the corporate full functionality that Microsoft offered, but they made barely a dent into the market and made very little money off of it as it was out of reach to many. Let Microsoft handle the high powered servers that power our government, universities, and corporations; let Apple handle the home users, the schools, and the smaller businesses. I know $20 is a very safe price for the features offered, and I don't see Microsoft offering anything in that category.

I think Apple wanted to be a big player...but just didn't have the commitment or understanding of the market. Then they got bored with it. It is a great home server, but I wouldn't use it in the enterprise anymore.

Um most kids will be lucky to get a job. Every small business I have seen dumped Microsoft Server after the yearly Server fees increases and then look to Linux servers. Since then Imurge any kid looking into Server training since just relying on know just one server would be a recipe for disaster!

To let you know I seen and work in systems for the Lat 25 years child! Even the Goverment is switching to Linux server. Next time your in site look around and you will be surprised. By the way the next time you turn in radio your hearing auto software that was recorded or piped in from satellite, running on Linux Servers!

Most small business use Lunux servers because of the unlimited licenses for clients and using Google services for email and docs.

Now you've involved Google in this? WHAT does Google have to do with this????? I REALLY don't think you are understanding any of this. I think you are using your perspective of a very small and niche market. I agree Linux servers are everywhere and are basically powering the internet in terms of market share. But Windows is not going anywhere anytime soon. Not every business wants the free solution. Since most large companies pay for support contracts, the cost of the Windows license is a drop in the bucket. Not every company wants to hire Linux gurus, and not everyone wants tp spend all day in command line. There are also a LOT of solutions that just don't exist on Linux. Also...not all Linux is really free. You can buy an SGI system with Linux...but that is going to cost you.

Linux is just not free, sorry to tell you. No enterprise is going to install a free piece of software without some sort of support contract....and they usually cost the same as a windows contract...sometimes more. So Linux is not a zero dollar solution. Unix on the other hand (what OS X is based on) is rarely a free OS.

 

[Altemose]

I think Apple wanted to be a big player...but just didn't have the commitment or understanding of the market. Then they got bored with it. It is a great home server, but I wouldn't use it in the enterprise anymore.

They do great for home, schools, and small businesses but the enterprise aspect is gone like you said.

 

[DJLC]

They do great for home, schools, and small businesses but the enterprise aspect is gone like you said.

Agreed. OS X Server is kludgy, but AppleCare has always helped us out in a pinch with issues involving covered client devices even though I'm running Server on an obviously-not-covered Xserve. They've devoted hours of time before without asking for a penny. But that doesn't scale.

That being said, for a small biz or school I'm not sure what yearly M$ fees you're referring to. We have no recurring fees with Server 2008, and we're upgrading to 2012 soon again with no fees. Sure we're not getting SCCM or anything fancy but it'll do what I need it to / what OS X sucks at: AD and DNS and GPOs for the few Windows machines we still have. I don't have time to monkey around with Linux or anything else; it's not worth the trouble and we can't afford the downtime when something goes wrong (and it will).

 

[Altemose]

That being said, for a small biz or school I'm not sure what yearly M$ fees you're referring to. We have no recurring fees with Server 2008, and we're upgrading to 2012 soon again with no fees.

I was not the one stating anything about Windows Server having yearly fees. I did however bring up the substantial price difference between the most basic versions of Windows Server and OS X Server and the differences in functionality. Additionally, I do recall some versions in the past being limited to the number of seats per server install, while OS X Server has unlimited seats as of 10.7 for the $20.00 price point.

 

[DJLC]

I was not the one stating anything about Windows Server having yearly fees. I did however bring up the substantial price difference between the most basic versions of Windows Server and OS X Server and the differences in functionality. Additionally, I do recall some versions in the past being limited to the number of seats per server install, while OS X Server has unlimited seats as of 10.7 for the $20.00 price point.

Apologies; I was a little unclear, but the second paragraph wasn't directed to you. But yes, M$ server licensing is certainly more expensive and complicated than OS X Server. Funny, more money gets you a legitimate enterprise solution. It's certainly overpriced in some regards, but it can be relied upon in small and large deployments alike. I don't think anyone could say the same for OS X Server or any Linux distro (unless you're spending big bucks for enterprise support contracts).

 

[Altemose]

Apologies; I was a little unclear, but the second paragraph wasn't directed to you. But yes, M$ server licensing is certainly more expensive and complicated than OS X Server. Funny, more money gets you a legitimate enterprise solution. It's certainly overpriced in some regards, but it can be relied upon in small and large deployments alike. I don't think anyone could say the same for OS X Server or any Linux distro (unless you're spending big bucks for enterprise support contracts).

I agree. OS X Server is targeted at the smaller needs market, while Windows Server is certainly more scalable (and pricey)!