Should Apple put the M2 chip in the 16" MacBook Pro?

[Christopher Kim]

In general I'm slightly surprised by just how big the A-core to M-core lag is - I'm certain Apple could have done this much faster if they'd felt the need, but at this point they are shipping M-cores based on A-cores from almost 18 months previously (in the case of the M1 Pro/Max), and if they continue with the M1 base for their other pro machines they are going to be shipping M cores that are architecturally almost two years old - by the time an M1 based Mac Pro ships it seems likely that the core will be two generations behind the A cores.

What's ironic there is that one of the issues with Intel over the last decade is that they got themselves architecturally stuck and kept shipping the same core in different guises. I really hope that Intel's 'leadership' in this manner hasn't affected the culture at Apple in this regard. Though, there does seem to be a certain kind of 'withholding' in the Apple product culture - keeping back the pace of development of certain features and releases because the market is willing to tolerate it and they can be more financially streamlined in the process. It's a shame really, because it is clear that the idea of delivering the 'best product possible' at any given time isn't necessarily the absolute first priority.

I agree with this. It is interesting that the M1 Pro/Max is based on the same chip as the A14/M1 which came out a year earlier. If you recall, a lot of ppl speculated that the M1 Pro/Max would've come out sooner (eg. June WWDC) if not for Covid-related supply chain issues. So it may have been "late", and now, if they're going to a 2yr cycle (which all signs point to), by the time the "M2 Pro/Max" comes out in 2H2023, it will basically be architecturally almost 3 yrs old at time of upgrade.

May not have always been Apple's plan, but yes, I agree this is likely the case now. Apple has always been of the "we still sell all our product at full price even when architecturally some things are dated". Consumers are accepting it (we don't really have a choice) and Apple has the brand power to be able to pull it off. *shrugs*

And I'm one of them. If that price included 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD, it would be the perfect laptop for so many of us who've shifted to Windows to get the screen size we needed in a non-pro device.

That's interesting. Per my previous post, I had wondered whether the consumers for a large-screen but "non-Pro" device (eg. a 16" MBA) were settling for the 13" MBA, or just begrudgingly ponying up for the 16" MBP. I didn't even consider that some would just be so frustrated they'd go to Windows. How did your thought process go that it was enough to make you go outside Apple?

 

[TechRunner]

I agree with this. It is interesting that the M1 Pro/Max is based on the same chip as the A14/M1 which came out a year earlier. If you recall, a lot of ppl speculated that the M1 Pro/Max would've come out sooner (eg. June WWDC) if not for Covid-related supply chain issues. So it may have been "late", and now, if they're going to a 2yr cycle (which all signs point to), by the time the "M2 Pro/Max" comes out in 2H2023, it will basically be architecturally almost 3 yrs old at time of upgrade.

May not have always been Apple's plan, but yes, I agree this is likely the case now. Apple has always been of the "we still sell all our product at full price even when architecturally some things are dated". Consumers are accepting it (we don't really have a choice) and Apple has the brand power to be able to pull it off. *shrugs*


That's interesting. Per my previous post, I had wondered whether the consumers for a large-screen but "non-Pro" device (eg. a 16" MBA) were settling for the 13" MBA, or just begrudgingly ponying up for the 16" MBP. I didn't even consider that some would just be so frustrated they'd go to Windows. How did your thought process go that it was enough to make you go outside Apple?

It was primarily financial vs. my use case (writing/blogging, light photo editing, news, YouTube). As someone who uses MacOS and Windows, I wasn't concerned about the learning curve in jumping over to a Windows laptop; I just prefer MacOS. Well, I convinced myself I could "get by" with a new 14" MBP and waited for them to be released, hoping to buy one as an upgrade to my now-departed 2015 MBA. But for the base price of $1999, it was tough to swallow for something that wasn't truly what I was looking for, which was a 15/16" laptop. I'd spent nearly six years using my Air, which I loved, but I wanted that extra screen real estate. And the $2499 price of a base MBP was beyond justification for my use case. The ability to pick up a base model 15" Dell XPS 9510 with expandable RAM and SSD (it has a second empty slot) for $850 less than the 14" MBP was too hard to pass up. So, I went that route, and six weeks in, it's been rock solid. Again, it was easier for me than it would be for most, as I don't do any heavy lifting on either my M1 Mini setup or my XPS and I'm comfortable on either OS. I could have afforded any of the three, but going the extreme overkill route just didn't seem fiscally wise.

 

[Micka88]

And after they put M5 Max chip, we will ask when M6 will come and wait for it ) Endless game

 

[Realityck]

There is no M2 chip going to be in the 16" MBP. The hardware was engineered for a M1 Max and M2 Max chip.

Right, but you should have said 14/16" MBP was engineered to work with either M1 Pro or M1 Max.

 

[DHagan4755]

There's no denying that Apple would be better served with a large screen MacBook. You could say my experience is anecdotal, however EVERYONE who's asked me about buying a MacBook wants a 15" or 16" screen & doesn't want to spend $2,500 for it when they see the likes of HP, Dell, and others sell them for a $1,000 less.

 

[chongsen]

Let s say 10% Macbook Air users eager for larger screen device.

Should Apple creates a new 15 inch chassis for those niche users and charge them $500 extra (MS charge $400 for screen size upgrade on surface laptop. Don't expect less than $500 for Apple). Or save those effort and propel 5% of them burning $1500 more for 16 inch Pro ?

 

[TechRunner]

Let s say 10% Macbook Air users eager for larger screen device.

Should Apple creates a new 15 inch chassis for those niche users and charge them $500 extra (MS charge $400 for screen size upgrade on surface laptop. Don't expect less than $500 for Apple). Or save those effort and propel 5% of them burning $1500 more for 16 inch Pro ?

I don't think any realists would argue with you. I wouldn't. I've said on numerous threads that I can't see it happening, which is why I'm typing this reply on a 15" Dell XPS. Still, it would be nice to see Apple consider serving that part of the market.

 

[chongsen]

I don't think any realists would argue with you. I wouldn't. I've said on numerous threads that I can't see it happening, which is why I'm typing this reply on a 15" Dell XPS. Still, it would be nice to see Apple consider serving that part of the market.

Dell XPS 9510 is the prettiest Laptop in this planet. period.

 

[TechRunner]

Dell XPS 9510 is the prettiest Laptop in this planet. period.

I've always liked the looks of them, and they are actually even nicer looking in person.

 

[chongsen]

I've always liked the looks of them, and they are actually even nicer looking in person.

In my house opinion, xps 9510 is superior on all aspects beside CPU. That stunning 3k OLED screen leave one no desire for any mini LCD.

 

[darngooddesign]

...Same for the iPad. She has an IPad Air 9.7” She’d like a larger screen but that requires spending an extra $500. She doesn’t need Apple Pencil 2, MiniLED display, XDR, 4 speakers, center stage, 2 cameras, LiDAR and on and on. She just wants the bigger screen. Apple says bigger screen = $500 more because that’s a Pro feature. I disagree. Non-Pros want to see their recipes and watch Netflix too.

Has she considered a refurb 2018 or 2020 13" iPad Pro?

 

[fa8362]

There's no denying that Apple would be better served with a large screen MacBook. You could say my experience is anecdotal, however EVERYONE who's asked me about buying a MacBook wants a 15" or 16" screen & doesn't want to spend $2,500 for it when they see the likes of HP, Dell, and others sell them for a $1,000 less.

Your experience IS anecdotal. Apple have market research, simulations and a marketing strategy. You have anecdotes.

 

[Chevysales]

Lol. They can’t even build current ones to meet demand.

 

[Technerd108]

I don't think putting a regular M2 chip in the new MBP chasis is a good idea at all.

I do think they need to release a MB air 16" with M2. The MBP 14 and 16" are incredible machines but they are not light and super portable. I think there is a huge market that wants a mac laptop with a bigger screen in an air package. They don't need all the power and heft. What they want is a light and portable but still powerful large screen laptop with MacOS! I think they should build a larger air with pro motion, 16" screen, up to 32gb ram, and big battery. It would satisfy a large group and I have a feeling Apple may just do something along those lines.

A large air is really the only market they haven't exploited and there is certainly a market for one whereas I don't think too many people would want a low powered MBP and pay the money and have the weight?

 

[Technerd108]

Oh and if you really want a large air like device Microsoft seems to be the only one making them with the Surface Laptop 4 15". It is not MacOS and I know that is a huge issue for many but if you don't mind then a new 15" with AMD ryzen 7 and 16gb ram should do the trick. Incredible build quality, no bloat, and all the drivers are handled by Microsoft not some OEM who wants to push new hardware on you as soon as possible. Also for security it is better to have a Surface in my opinion.

But I really hope there is a larger air this year or next! That would be a dream!

 

[DHagan4755]

Rumor has it the 13” MacBook Pro is going M2 in the same design. Thus the question resurfaces… would you buy the 16” MacBook Pro with an M2 in the Intel 16” enclosure? I know this is pie in the sky wishful thinking but why not? Price it around $1,899.

 

[DHagan4755]

“We’ve got a comprehensive line-up of products aimed at pros of all types.”

 

[venom600]

The 16" Chassis is overkill for an M1 or M2 class processor. Thicker and heavier than it needs to be. There should be a 15 or 16" Macbook Air, just like Apple did with the old 14" iBook G4 back in the day. They've finally conceded that some people want maximum power in a portable chasiss with the 14" Macbook Pro. They should do the same with the Air and give the option of a 4lb 15" machine.

 

[darngooddesign]

Rumor has it the 13” MacBook Pro is going M2 in the same design. Thus the question resurfaces… would you buy the 16” MacBook Pro with an M2 in the Intel 16” enclosure? I know this is pie in the sky wishful thinking but why not? Price it around $1,899.

Nope. I don't want the old design.

 

[nquinn]

Something like that would be great for my parents if the price came down, but I think around $1500 is the most they'd consider spending.

So many $700-$800 15" pc laptops out there.

 

[darngooddesign]

Should Apple put an M2 in the 16" MacBook Pro to reach the customers who don't need the speed but want the larger screen?

No, but they should do a larger MacBook Air. That way there would be a small/large regular laptop and a small/large pro laptop. Oh and ditch the 13" MBP which is unnecessary at this point.

 

[VaruLV]

TL-DR
Im all for simpler config 15-16" Macbook with "regular" M2 and option to spec it out to at least 32GB of RAM.
Apple being Apple they wont probably do it any time soon despite last years rumors of them working on redesigned 15" MBA.

The difference between a 16" M1 Max and 16" M1 Pro is only $300 (if you select the same RAM and SSD size).

So theoretically, you might also save only $300 going for the M1 chip instead of the M1 pro in the 16" M1 MBP, which is very expensive machine if you look at what PC's offers in terms of performance in the same price range.

Those "only" 300$/eur in my case would be very welcome money spent on RAM upgrade when ordering said 15-16" Macbook. So theres that.
Large screen, 32GB RAM and 512-1TB SSD and that all for 300-500$ cheaper than MBP is what Im looking for.

Before I bow out of the thread, all I’m saying is there are consumers out there that want very large screens and don’t want 8 CPU cores and 32GB of RAM. My wife likes my large Screen MacBook Pro 16” but the only computer for her is a MacBook Air that meets her budget. There are people out there who would pay $1799 for a 16” Air with an M1 chip. Pros can spend $2499 for the Pro / Max chips.

Same for the iPad. She has an IPad Air 9.7” She’d like a larger screen but that requires spending an extra $500. She doesn’t need Apple Pencil 2, MiniLED display, XDR, 4 speakers, center stage, 2 cameras, LiDAR and on and on. She just wants the bigger screen. Apple says bigger screen = $500 more because that’s a Pro feature. I disagree. Non-Pros want to see their recipes and watch Netflix too.

Well, thats Apple, virtue signaling about inclusivity and diversity is what they do best as long as it doesnt take too much of their own resources to plan out and doesnt go against their current business/marketing models.
They probably think that consumer should be thankful for their MPB 14/16" models while in reality Apple should be the ones kneeling before customers for still being loyal to them when Apple had so many design choices made wrong with so many of their Pro and even non-pro devices.

I've always liked the looks of them, and they are actually even nicer looking in person.

I like them too, never seen one IRL tho, it appears that for some odd reason there hasnt been any official dealer in my country for more than a decade, even tho some 15-17 years ago I remember Dell commercials and them having 3y standart warranty even on their consumer line laptops.
With all that, XPS 15(FHD) with i7-11800H, 16GB/512GB/RTX3050i combo will cost me 2050 euros, which is ridiculously close to base level 16" M1 Pro. So, given the benefits of longer battery life, quieter operation of M1 Pro, it would be much easier choice to "overspend" on MPB 16.
Surface Laptop 15" comes cheaper and arguably has better screen with touch support on any config, but that one has still that old big bezel LCD design which should be gone by now.

 

[dallegre]

After thinking about this, I think it makes sense as a configuration choice in the same product. M2, M1 Pro, M1 Max offered alongside each other. Why not? Not everyone needs the fancy video and encoding features of the Pro/Max features. I could see the current 16" (with actual ports) and an M2 as a solid config for a business/office user that prefers a 16".

I wonder what the cost/value difference is between an M2 and an 8/14 binned M1 Pro (which is also not offered on the 16").

Another elephant in the room for a set of users that Apple doesn't cater to is a laptop with a 10 key option. I personally like a centered keyboard, but there's certainly a non-zero segment of users that prefer a numpad.

 

[TechRunner]

With all that, XPS 15(FHD) with i7-11800H, 16GB/512GB/RTX3050i combo will cost me 2050 euros, which is ridiculously close to base level 16" M1 Pro.

If you need something with similar specs to the MBP, there really is, like you said, little cost savings to be had in going XPS. Given those two options, I'd go MBP for sure. In my case, I wanted the bigger screen but didn't need the horsepower, so got the screen size I needed in the 15" Dell specced for my light use for less than half the price of a base 16" MBP.

 

[GoldPunch]

In my house opinion, xps 9510 is superior on all aspects beside CPU. That stunning 3k OLED screen leave one no desire for any mini LCD.

Yes, I agree, but Dell should learn how to do quality control while in production...