All iPads Should the iPad become a Mac Replacement?

[Ludatyk]

Not for the 12.9"...it's the same size as a MBA. I don't even care about dual boot. Let me choose. I will load Mac OSX and be done with it. I don't even really buy the "ton of work" stuff. They literally have one set of components in each pro with tons of overlap. Do it on the M1 (and up) iPad Pro line and be done with it.

Eventually it will come a time where virtualization will come to iPadOS and users will be able to load up any OS onto the iPad. But as of now, I believe Apple wants to make iPadOS as good as it can be. It's as if they are ramping up their efforts with features like Stage Manager, Virtual Memory Swap, Desktop Class API and recently adding their Pro apps to the iPad Pro line.

And we are trying to rush the process, but if users can be patient... iPad will be able to stand on its own and the discussion surrounding iPad as a mac/laptop replacement could be mute.

 

[Digitalguy]

While I might be sympathetic to the idea of a dual/boot iPad device if it truly preserves the original iPad design intent, I disagree with the oversimplification that this capability is not provided purely due to greed on Apple’s part.

Dual boot alone will not allow MacOS to run and deliver a satisfactory MacOS experience. For one, the smaller iPad touchscreen would require supporting changes in MacOS. Second, Apple is disciplined in optimizing system resources to meet designed use cases (that goes for processor, storage, memory, power where there is typically little to no excess capacity laying around) — so even if the MX CPU and GPU are adequate to run both OSs, I suspect the current MX ROM and other off SOC subsystems such as power might need to be re-engineered to accommodate both iPadOS and MacOS.

As such, a dual-boot iPad is likely to require changes to hardware as well as MacOS (to accommodate iPad hardware) and probably iPadOS (to play nicely as a dual boot vs dedicated OS) and will likely be different and more expensive than the iPad as we know it today.

Then there is the question of user experience and demand to name a couple more considerations: Will it deliver an exceptional or degraded MacOS experience? Is there sufficient demand at the associated price point(s) to justify the effort to prep and manufacture it?

Net-net: The point of all this is to explain the belief that the lack of a dual boot iPad is perhaps due to more than greed on Apple’s part.

Nah, it's just greed, dual boot is as easy as it gets, including for the 11", especially if touch is disabled with MacOS.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Eventually it will come a time where virtualization will come to iPadOS and users will be able to load up any OS onto the iPad. But as of now, I believe Apple wants to make iPadOS as good as it can be. It's as if they are ramping up their efforts with features like Stage Manager, Virtual Memory Swap, Desktop Class API and recently adding their Pro apps to the iPad Pro line.

And we are trying to rush the process, but if users can be patient... iPad will be able to stand on its own and the discussion surrounding iPad as a mac/laptop replacement could be mute.

Honestly it wouldn’t even take that much. Make the finder and file structure more like Mac and allow Mac binaries and leave everything else the same…

 

[TheColtr]

For me, I need more information dense options. When I work I plug my iPad into a 32" display. When the iPad "sees" it plug into a large display that is not touch, everything needs to shrink, and because the windows use size class, I cannot manually adjust the size to "just right" its either too large or not quite large enough. Next to that is manually moving windows around. On a 32" display I don't need my windows snapping around when I try to move them. Let me set the windows in a position that works for me.

On a side note of that, Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro for iPad don't support full screen on external displays. HUGE BUMMER. I got a 32" display so I could full screen and see all my tracks and more stuff on my timeline.

Those are the two things that are really keeping me from using the iPad as a daily work device.

 

[sparksd]

Nah, it's just greed, dual boot is as easy as it gets, including for the 11", especially if touch is disabled with MacOS.

I don't understand this continued use of the word greed in this context. As a publicly held company, Apple has a responsibility to its shareholders to maximize profits. This isn't greed, it's business policy.

 

[startergo]

Eventually it will come a time where virtualization will come to iPadOS and users will be able to load up any OS onto the iPad

You can now.

https://mvm.mergesoftcorp.com/

I tested it on MBP I will soon test it on iPad Pro.

 

[Digitalguy]

I don't understand this continued use of the word greed in this context. As a publicly held company, Apple has a responsibility to its shareholders to maximize profits. This isn't greed, it's business policy.

I just reused the word that had been used before. But sure I agree, maximizing profits is the priority. The way a company does is however a delicate balance. If they try to squeeze too much profit at the expense of their customers they could break this balance and actually make less profits but overall Apple has proven to be pretty good at emptying their clients pockets (and bank accounts) without clients complaining too much and some even finding excuses to justify choices that are only aimed at maximizing their earnings. I know I sound cynical but I have nothing against Apple, all companies are like that, just amazed how some fans however think that Apple is for some reason better than the rest...

 

[sparksd]

I just reused the word that had been used before. But sure I agree, maximizing profits is the priority. The way a company does is however a delicate balance. If they try to squeeze too much profit at the expense of their customers they could break this balance and actually make less profits but overall Apple has proven to be pretty good at emptying their clients pockets (and bank accounts) without clients complaining too much and some evening finding excuses to justify choices that are only aimed at maximizing their earnings. I know I sound cynical but I have nothing against Apple, all companies are like that, just amazed how some fans however think that Apple is for some reason better than the rest...

Unfortunately, in publicly-held companies, the bean counters and BODs rule the roost and any significant decisions on product evolution have to be vetted by them and need to show an ROI making them worthwhile. Changes need to buy their way onto the factory floor.

 

[iPadified]

That's because the iPad has mouse and keyboard support and Apple sells mouse and keyboard accessories. And because professional writing, coding and video work applications are on the iPad, including Apple's own Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro.

What exactly is your issue with these commenters?

Bottom line: identify the tasks to be done and under which circumstances and choose the tools accordingly. SJ understood it with his famous car analogy regarding iPads vs Macs. The large majority of MR forums members and internet reviewers have still not understood the iPad because they apply the iPad in the wrong context.

Let´s take an analogy. I have a sledge axe and hand axe. The former is good to chop thick logs and the to latter trim smaller branches. If you use the hand axe for chopping thick logs, you will be disappointed because it is inefficient. The reverse is also true which is obvious for anyone using axes. In the IT world however, trimming smaller branches is not even considered and the only use of an axe has is to chop thick logs. Hence the reviewer views are biased toward chopping thick logs.

Put it more bluntly, when I see reviews with the iPad attached to a magic keyboards at the from page, I know the user will be a biased toward Mac (thick log chopping). Writing, coding and video work is 99% of the time desk work where the product is digital document (thick log chopping). Logic is different as musician interact mainly with instruments with Logic (trimming branches) as the side kick. Just like teaching, flying an aircraft, driving, meetings, health care etc but these compute situation are never or very rarely considered at MR. Why?

If you use your iPad as an iPad* (being a compute side kick) for say 90% of the time and the rest for keyboard work (desk work), is not the Magic Keyboard+iPad a better solution than a Mac?

*Except pencil artists.

 

[HDFan]

then there is the question of user experience

Look what Apple had to do to make the FCP experience on the iPad work. Major rewrite took years to make and it will likely take even more years until if becomes full featured, if that even ever happens.

There is absolutely no reason other than corporate greed as to why the iPad can't also be a Mac replacement.

No financial incentive for most developers to made the required changes to implement a good touch interface.

 

[Digitalguy]

No financial incentive for most developers to made the required changes to implement a good touch interface.

The comment you quoted was referring to dualbooting MacOS (where touch could simply be disabled), not to developers porting apps to iPadOS or MacBooks getting touch screens

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Unfortunately, in publicly-held companies, the bean counters and BODs rule the roost and any significant decisions on product evolution have to be vetted by them and need to show an ROI making them worthwhile. Changes need to buy their way onto the factory floor.

Apple used to be the exception to this rule under Jobs, however. He understood the value of ignoring the noise and focus on making great products. This, in turn, will maximize long-term profits for the shareholders.

 

[sparksd]

Apple used to be the exception to this rule under Jobs, however. He understood the value of ignoring the noise and focus on making great products. This, in turn, will maximize long-term profits for the shareholders.

Perhaps, but I'm not so sure - I've never held Jobs on a pedestal. And he would never go for a dual-boot iPad.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Perhaps, but I'm not so sure - I've never held Jobs on a pedestal. And he would never go for a dual-boot iPad.

Maybe, maybe not. He believed in cannabilizing your own products before someone else does, so I think iPadOS wouldn’t need a dual boot option at this point as it would be full Mac anyway.

 

[Digitalguy]

Maybe, maybe not. He believed in cannabilizing your own products before someone else does, so I think iPadOS wouldn’t need a dual boot option at this point as it would be full Mac anyway.

Nah, he believed in cannibalizing when you can make more money with the new product. And Apple will be happy to cannibalize some MacBook air sales with either an large iPad that costs twice as much or with a combination of and iPad and a Mac accessory that again cost at least twice as much as a MacBook air. But not with the current iPad pro.

 

[heretiq]

You can now.

https://mvm.mergesoftcorp.com/

I tested it on MBP I will soon test it on iPad Pro.

Very interesting @startergo . The screenshots are intriguing. The 2.6 App Store rating is not a good sign, but definitely looking forward to seeing your experience with Merge VM Pro for iPad.

 

[heretiq]

Unfortunately, in publicly-held companies, the bean counters and BODs rule the roost and any significant decisions on product evolution have to be vetted by them and need to show an ROI making them worthwhile. Changes need to buy their way onto the factory floor.

Product innovations (especially at the scale we are talking about) are costly and inherently risky. What is unfortunate about having to show ROI before using investor money on potentially risky endeavors? Any company (public or private) that fails to do this is simply reckless and typically shortlived. Would you be comfortable trusting your retirement funds to a company that doesn’t subject projects to an ROI test before spending your life savings?

 

[sparksd]

Product innovations (especially at the scale we are talking about) are costly and inherently risky. What is unfortunate about having to show ROI before using investor money on potentially risky endeavors? Any company (public or private) that fails to do this is simply reckless and typically shortlived. Would you be comfortable trusting your retirement funds to a company that doesn’t subject projects to an ROI test before spending your life savings?

I have no problem at all with this business model. I shouldn't have used the word unfortunately in my response - I really meant it in terms of potentially stunting product evolution of favorable characteristics that simply don't have sufficient bottom-line payback.

 

[heretiq]

Apple used to be the exception to this rule under Jobs, however. He understood the value of ignoring the noise and focus on making great products. This, in turn, will maximize long-term profits for the shareholders.

Jobs was notorious for saying no to product variations that didn’t bring focus and clear differentiation to the apple product line. Here are his own words on his return to Apple:

“I’ve been back about eight to ten weeks, and we’ve been working really hard. What we’re trying to do is not something really highfalutin. We’re trying to get back to the basics. We’re trying to get back to the basics of great products, great marketing, and great distribution. I think that Apple has pockets of greatness but in some ways has drifted away from doing the basics really well.

We started with the product line. We looked at the product road map, going out for a few years, and we said, “A lot of this doesn’t make sense, and it’s way too much stuff, and there’s not enough focus.” We actually got rid of 70 percent of the stuff on the product road map. I couldn’t even figure out the damn product line after a few weeks.
..
I started talking to customers, and they couldn’t figure it out either.

You’re going to see the product line get much simpler, and you’re going to see the product line get much better. There’s some new stuff coming out that’s incredibly nice. In addition, we’ve been able to focus a lot more on the 30 percent of the gems and add some new stuff in that is going to take us in some whole new directions.”

This work resulted in clarity after a period of unbridled “innovations” on multiple fronts that caused Apple to lose focus, spread resources thin and ultimately put them on the brink of failure.

So clarity, simplicity and focus was the Jobs way. Would Jobs view an iPad that can also be a Mac as an example of clarity, simplicity and focus or sign of a muddled product line? 🤔

 

[heretiq]

I have no problem at all with this business model. I shouldn't have used the word unfortunately in my response - I really meant it in terms of potentially stunting product evolution of favorable characteristics that simply don't have sufficient bottom-line payback.

Understood. It’s incredibly difficult to maintain a product management discipline that allows room for gut based decisions without getting on the slippery slope of too much gut. I don’t envy the Apple product management team. Their work is much harder than it may appear.

 

[Night Spring]

So clarity, simplicity and focus was the Jobs way. Would Jobs view an iPad that can also be a Mac as an example of clarity, simplicity and focus or sign of a muddled product line? 🤔

Yeah, that's the thing. Hardware-wise, the iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard feels like it should be a MacBook replacement. But the OS doesn't do that. To me, it feels like a very muddled product.

An iPad without the keyboard, acting purely as a tablet, has a very clear use case. But adding a keyboard to the mix has never worked for me. For shorter writing tasks, such as writing this forum post, the on screen keyboard is sufficient. Longer writing and coding is just more easily done on a desktop. Even notebook computers are a compromise compared to a desktop. But they have a place for people who need to take computers with them from place to place.

An iPad with keyboard that doesn't do everything a full MacBook can do -- what's the use case for this? Who buys that over a MacBook? I suspect many people buy the keyboard thinking they'll use it, but end up mostly using the iPad in tablet mode. Or they end up being frustrated with that setup and go to a MacBook. If I'm wrong and someone's having a great experience with the iPad + keyboard, I'd love to hear of their use case.

 

[heretiq]

Yeah, that's the thing. Hardware-wise, the iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard feels like it should be a MacBook replacement. But the OS doesn't do that. To me, it feels like a very muddled product.

An iPad without the keyboard, acting purely as a tablet, has a very clear use case. But adding a keyboard to the mix has never worked for me. For shorter writing tasks, such as writing this forum post, the on screen keyboard is sufficient. Longer writing and coding is just more easily done on a desktop. Even notebook computers are a compromise compared to a desktop. But they have a place for people who need to take computers with them from place to place.

An iPad with keyboard that doesn't do everything a full MacBook can do -- what's the use case for this? Who buys that over a MacBook? I suspect many people buy the keyboard thinking they'll use it, but end up mostly using the iPad in tablet mode. Or they end up being frustrated with that setup and go to a MacBook. If I'm wrong and someone's having a great experience with the iPad + keyboard, I'd love to hear of their use case.

Your perspective matches mine @Night Spring . I'm sure there folks for whom the iPad + Magic Keyboard is perfect for their use case; but I purchased the iPad Magic Keyboard to use with my iPad Pro because the design is fantastic but found the combination too heavy and bulky -- so I went back to just the iPad. However, I love the Magic Keyboard as an iPad stand. The way the iPad floats and the visual elegance is inspired. I would pay for an iPad Magic Keyboard without the keyboard to use as just a stand!

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Yeah, that's the thing. Hardware-wise, the iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard feels like it should be a MacBook replacement. But the OS doesn't do that. To me, it feels like a very muddled product.

An iPad without the keyboard, acting purely as a tablet, has a very clear use case. But adding a keyboard to the mix has never worked for me. For shorter writing tasks, such as writing this forum post, the on screen keyboard is sufficient. Longer writing and coding is just more easily done on a desktop. Even notebook computers are a compromise compared to a desktop. But they have a place for people who need to take computers with them from place to place.

An iPad with keyboard that doesn't do everything a full MacBook can do -- what's the use case for this? Who buys that over a MacBook? I suspect many people buy the keyboard thinking they'll use it, but end up mostly using the iPad in tablet mode. Or they end up being frustrated with that setup and go to a MacBook. If I'm wrong and someone's having a great experience with the iPad + keyboard, I'd love to hear of their use case.

I will say that I really do use it this way. I have written entire chapters in iOS Scrivener with my Magic Keyboard. But I would love it even more if that iOS Scrivener was Mac Scrivener.

 

[subjonas]

I voted for no preference because I’m ok with the iPad and its current trajectory, and I don’t have any desire to replace my Mac. But I guess if the iPad eventually can completely replace my Mac (ie. do everything it can do as well or better) without losing any of its own advantageous, then sure why not. But I don’t know how that would happen.

 

[Night Spring]

I will say that I really do use it this way. I have written entire chapters in iOS Scrivener with my Magic Keyboard. But I would love it even more if that iOS Scrivener was Mac Scrivener.

Is that something you do regularly, or is it once in a while?