All iPads Should the iPad become a Mac Replacement?

[teh_hunterer]

Also, the smartest people I know focus on doing one thing at a time — which is backed up by numerous studies that demonstrate that multitasking is a recipe for reduced productivity and increased mistakes.

This is more true than most people realise, and it was an unexpected benefit I noticed when I tried using my iPad with an external display for a couple of days at work to see if it could replace my laptop. I found it easier to focus solely on what I was doing while I was doing it, and when I got to the end of it, I was content with sitting there and considering what I would do next instead of falling into the habit of clicking on some of the distracting windows I had lying around.

I definitely gained on that front, but I'm not sure it was worth the jankiness of Stage Manager, nor the weird behaviour of apps that aren't yet updated for Stage Manager, nor the silly way the iPad won't let you choose where the audio goes (just shunts it to a monitor that has no speakers or audio out).

If they can improve things, that balance might start shifting in the iPad's favour, but it wasn't there for me when I tried it a month or so ago.

 

[heretiq]

This is more true than most people realise, and it was an unexpected benefit I noticed when I tried using my iPad with an external display for a couple of days at work to see if it could replace my laptop.

I definitely gained on that front, but I'm not sure it was worth the jankiness of Stage Manager, nor the weird behaviour of apps that aren't yet updated for Stage Manager, nor the silly way the iPad won't let you choose where the audio goes (just shunts it to a monitor that has no speakers or audio out).

If they can improve things, that balance might start shifting in the iPad's favour, but it wasn't there for me when I tried it a month or so ago.

Yes. @teh_hunterer, your experience illustrates the arc of iPad experience:

• The experience peaks when the iPad is used for the core “lean back” use cases which is the central iPad design principle.
• The experience declines for off-center use cases like attaching a keyboard to use it for Mac-centric “lean forward” use cases.
• This off-center diminishing experience does not make the iPad bad — it simply demonstrates that iPad versatility to support “lean-back” use cases has a cost.

It’s understandable that the dynamic appears to catch some off guard as there is limited talk about the iPad design intent and central use cases these days — even from Apple.

 

[okkibs]

I found it easier to focus solely on what I was doing while I was doing it, and when I got to the end of it, I was content with sitting there and considering what I would do next instead of falling into the habit of clicking on some of the distracting windows I had lying around.

Multitasking helps to monitor background tasks whilst staying focused on your main app/window. I'll have an ongoing audio recording in the background, or perhaps a crossword puzzle I want to look at in between, or a work status monitoring application, or a chat program - and usually it's all these things combined plus more. Without Stage Manager I'd have to use a gesture to get a limited overview of open apps and that is slower and makes it more inconvenient to momentarily check another window and immediately return to what I'm doing.

Or take something much simpler, using one app whilst listening to music. If you want to switch to a different album, with one tap you're there and with another you're back at your primary app.

The app overview without Stage Manager is really clunky too, there's usually a lot of apps I use throughout the day, so I'll then need to horizontally scroll through a list of windows that are arranged rather randomly, with Stage Manager I can sort them somewhat. It's not perfect there either, but better than gestures and scrolling. Gestures work well on the iPad but they remain slow compared to seeing everything at once (on the left) and accessing windows with a single tap.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Multitasking helps to monitor background tasks whilst staying focused on your main app/window. I'll have an ongoing audio recording in the background, or perhaps a crossword puzzle I want to look at in between, or a work status monitoring application, or a chat program - and usually it's all these things combined plus more. Without Stage Manager I'd have to use a gesture to get a limited overview of open apps and that is slower and makes it more inconvenient to momentarily check another window and immediately return to what I'm doing.

I think we're talking about two different things. Multitasking in the cognitive sense, and multitasking as a capability of the device.

Multitasking cognitively is mainly a myth. It trashes your thinking, focus, and quantity and quality of output.

Multitasking in the OS can be good in the sense that you might need multiple windows open to complete a single task.

 

[mrgraff]

Each device has shared capabilities and unique use cases.
Mac replacement ≠ Mac equivalent

 

[ofarlig]

I think we should be able to run Mac apps on iPadOS but I don’t think we should have MacOS on the iPads. Will it replace a Mac for some people? Yes, like it already does. There will always be restrictions with iPadOS but I hope Apple works on fixing those that aren’t based on the inherent design of the OS. Things like external display support with configurable resolution, having apps being able to properly take over the mouse movements. Add being able to run Mac apps as well and it will be a very powerful machine, it would probably bring Apple a lot of money if developers can sell Mac apps to iPad users through the store as well.

Why not have two really capable devices in your lineup that can do many things the other can? I prefer using iPads over Macs, but I’d love some extra functionality with the iPads to really be able to use their power.

 

[heretiq]

Multitasking helps to monitor background tasks whilst staying focused on your main app/window. I'll have an ongoing audio recording in the background, or perhaps a crossword puzzle I want to look at in between, or a work status monitoring application, or a chat program - and usually it's all these things combined plus more. Without Stage Manager I'd have to use a gesture to get a limited overview of open apps and that is slower and makes it more inconvenient to momentarily check another window and immediately return to what I'm doing.

Or take something much simpler, using one app whilst listening to music. If you want to switch to a different album, with one tap you're there and with another you're back at your primary app.

The app overview without Stage Manager is really clunky too, there's usually a lot of apps I use throughout the day, so I'll then need to horizontally scroll through a list of windows that are arranged rather randomly, with Stage Manager I can sort them somewhat. It's not perfect there either, but better than gestures and scrolling. Gestures work well on the iPad but they remain slow compared to seeing everything at once (on the left) and accessing windows with a single tap.

Thanks for this @okkibs — I’m using Stage Manager, but after reading this, I think I may not be using it properly or in the best way. I’ll have to dedicate some time to learn and understand it better.

 

[okkibs]

I’m using Stage Manager, but after reading this, I think I may not be using it properly or in the best way.

The single most important thing for me is the bottom right corner of every window within Stage Manager. It is the quickest way to switch into and out of fullscreen mode, and resize windows quickly. And I can always pull the other windows in from the left screen edge no matter what window/app I am in and switch to them instantly.

Without Stage Manager switching between apps requires gestures, and these are slower and at least the bottom horizonal swipe for switching through apps is unreliable for me. Pulling in the left bar and resizing windows is near-instant.

 

[Ghost31]

As someone thats been on forums like this for more than a decade watching conversations like this repeat over and over and over again….who the hell cares. “Can it replace a Mac? Can it replace a laptop”? Probably thousands of these threads have popped up over the years and the answers are the same every single time. Ipad is its own product and it depends on how you wanna use it. It can be the right fit for a majority of people but some people need a Mac For specific things.

Is there anything that will be said in this thread that wasnt over the past decade on here? every single one of us has had a checklist of things ipad couldn’t do so we were like “no way. Ipad is a toy. Cant do this or that”. Every year apple checks off something from that checklist and then people fixate on the things that are left that it cant do. Same here. Same with Final Cut Pro for ipad. It’ll be the same next year. 10 years from now people will still complain ipad isn’t a “real computer” for some made up reason and ya know why? It’s tradition.

 

[heretiq]

As someone thats been on forums like this for more than a decade watching conversations like this repeat over and over and over again….who the hell cares. “Can it replace a Mac? Can it replace a laptop”? Probably thousands of these threads have popped up over the years and the answers are the same every single time. Ipad is its own product and it depends on how you wanna use it. It can be the right fit for a majority of people but some people need a Mac For specific things.

Is there anything that will be said in this thread that wasnt over the past decade on here? every single one of us has had a checklist of things ipad couldn’t do so we were like “no way. Ipad is a toy. Cant do this or that”. Every year apple checks off something from that checklist and then people fixate on the things that are left that it cant do. Same here. Same with Final Cut Pro for ipad. It’ll be the same next year. 10 years from now people will still complain ipad isn’t a “real computer” for some made up reason and ya know why? It’s tradition.

I’m curious, did you read the original post? The countless posts on the subject is a known fact, what none of them answered was the question of ‘are those wanting the iPad to be more Mac-like the majority or a vocal minority?’ That is why the post was formulated as a poll with background on the iPad design intent (which seems to be lost on many these days) — the purpose was to add something that was missing, not to rehash old arguments. 🙏🏽

 

[jbs-horn]

I think many people misunderstand the problem and blame the platform for the limitations of the apps.

I have an iPad Pro 11" M1 model that handles Stage Manager and a portable external monitor just fine. I can have as many applications running simultaneously as I usually run on my Mac. Unlike my Surface Pro X road warrior machine, the iPad is stable and intuitive to a degree, just like the MacOS and Windows systems I use every work day.

The problem I run into isn't the platform, it's the applications. I'm an attorney working as general counsel for a venture capital firm. I draft contracts involving mergers, acquisitions, employee benefit plans, and reorganizations. Occasionally I need some specialized features such as line numbering, embedded charts from spreadsheets that can be easily edited and updated, embedded date codes that automatically set the date the deal closes, automated tables of contents, etc.

Incidentally, in my line of work, Microsoft Office is a necessity. I started with WordStar, migrated to WordPerfect, then to MS Word. No one in the legal field can get by without MS Word. No one in the financial field gets by without Excel. Corporate accountants use Windows, period. I'm not one of those.

For my purposes iPadOS isn't the problem. Microsoft's reduced feature set in the iPad version is. And here's what gets me. The iPad version of Office can handle all of those things except the tables of contents, as long as a template created using the full version on MacOS or on Windows was used as a source. How difficult is it to add the last bit, the ability to create those codes? I figure Microsoft makes money off of my Microsoft 365 account, but must enable an iPad Air 2 with 2GB of Ram to run Word and Excel along with my 8GB M1 iPad Pro. I would like to travel with only the iPad, but I am forced to bring my MacBook Air (M2 version) along when I'm on the road. I know, it's not a huge burden, but after 40 years of doing this, I like simplicity.

I don't blame Apple for this issue. By rolling out ProLogic, etc, Apple is showing what can be done on this platform. What is needed is for the app developers (I mean Microsoft) to realize that they can do much more on the latest iPad models and add those features to the models that can handle them. They're just being lazy and cheap.

 

[FeliApple]

Stage Manager? Really? Have you tried using it? Stage Manager has potential but is unfortunately half baked. It needs a lot of work and I am not sure Apple has it as a priority..

A real computer is a computer that allows for true multitasking, has the ability to use productivity software and can pretty much do everything. An iPad has begun as a complementary device to the Mac and it needs to evolve. The limitations of iPadOS are the biggest issue here. No true multitasking (with 0 limitations, just like on Mac/Windows), no real productivity apps that are feature rich like their desktop counterparts, no hardware configurations that scale in regards to CPUs, GPUs and RAM. These are real limitations and they might not disturb a lot of people, and that's great. These limitations make me use my iPad only for FaceTime, Skype, viewing photos and light web surfing (not serious stuff though).
The iPad has also bad accessories. Modular computing depends on the quality of the modules. The Magic Keyboard is a joke. It allows only two viewing angles, that are bad, especially when using the iPad on the lap.
But yes, you are right, the iPad is not a fake computer. It's just a toy with potential. It's up to Apple to make the iPad a better device. In the meantime I will be using macOS which I love. No way I am using an iPad more than a couple of minutes every month. It's just too limited.
Currently I am typing this on my 16" MacBook Pro. I have 20 apps open. I use Remote Desktop to connect to the Windows Servers of my customers (I could do that with my iPad, but the experience is bad). I am using many productivity apps and everything runs smoothly and doesn't go to standby. I also have a much bigger canvas (display) to use. The iPad doesn't offer that.
Many limitations, compromises and the worst thing is the cost. Having a full blown iPad will cost you more than 2k. For this money just get a laptop running macOS..

Apple, please do not obliterate an iPad like this.

 

[Surfsalot]

Apple, please do not obliterate an iPad like this.

I stopped reading at the mgk only has 2 viewing angles and no good on the lap, as i type this on my lap using it lol.
All credibility gone.

 

[heretiq]

I think many people misunderstand the problem and blame the platform for the limitations of the apps.

I have an iPad Pro 11" M1 model that handles Stage Manager and a portable external monitor just fine. I can have as many applications running simultaneously as I usually run on my Mac. Unlike my Surface Pro X road warrior machine, the iPad is stable and intuitive to a degree, just like the MacOS and Windows systems I use every work day.

The problem I run into isn't the platform, it's the applications. I'm an attorney working as general counsel for a venture capital firm. I draft contracts involving mergers, acquisitions, employee benefit plans, and reorganizations. Occasionally I need some specialized features such as line numbering, embedded charts from spreadsheets that can be easily edited and updated, embedded date codes that automatically set the date the deal closes, automated tables of contents, etc.

Incidentally, in my line of work, Microsoft Office is a necessity. I started with WordStar, migrated to WordPerfect, then to MS Word. No one in the legal field can get by without MS Word. No one in the financial field gets by without Excel. Corporate accountants use Windows, period. I'm not one of those.

For my purposes iPadOS isn't the problem. Microsoft's reduced feature set in the iPad version is. And here's what gets me. The iPad version of Office can handle all of those things except the tables of contents, as long as a template created using the full version on MacOS or on Windows was used as a source. How difficult is it to add the last bit, the ability to create those codes? I figure Microsoft makes money off of my Microsoft 365 account, but must enable an iPad Air 2 with 2GB of Ram to run Word and Excel along with my 8GB M1 iPad Pro. I would like to travel with only the iPad, but I am forced to bring my MacBook Air (M2 version) along when I'm on the road. I know, it's not a huge burden, but after 40 years of doing this, I like simplicity.

I don't blame Apple for this issue. By rolling out ProLogic, etc, Apple is showing what can be done on this platform. What is needed is for the app developers (I mean Microsoft) to realize that they can do much more on the latest iPad models and add those features to the models that can handle them. They're just being lazy and cheap.

Great point @jbs-horn . Microsoft (along with Google and Apple) have arguably the best UI/UX designers and app developers on the planet. You can see this in the quality and refinement of Windows and Office (which I rely on daily for process modeling, simulation and analysis) as well as many other apps across the MS product suite. Given the talent on team MS, the gaps and inconsistencies with both iPad and Mac versions of Office vs the Windows versions is baffling -- particularly since these apps are reportedly developed by a dedicated Mac dev team who presumably would be versed in Apple HIG guidelines. Your attribution of these shortcomings to laziness and cheapness is generous; a less generous supposition (which I'm inclined towards) is to chalk it up to a strategy of deliberately kneecapping MS Mac/iPad apps to ensure that Microsoft apps deliver the best experience on Microsoft platforms 🧐.

 

[Ludatyk]

I don't blame Apple for this issue. By rolling out ProLogic, etc, Apple is showing what can be done on this platform. What is needed is for the app developers (I mean Microsoft) to realize that they can do much more on the latest iPad models and add those features to the models that can handle them. They're just being lazy and cheap.

My hope is for Microsoft to port over Mac version to the iPad... specifically M1 iPads. And with news like FCP only for M1 iPads.. it might become a trend.

Your attribution of these shortcomings to laziness and cheapness is generous; a less generous supposition (which I'm inclined towards) is to chalk it up to a strategy of deliberately kneecapping MS Mac/iPad apps to ensure that Microsoft apps deliver the best experience on Microsoft platforms 🧐.

Tbf, it does makes sense. Why would Microsoft want parity among Mac/iPad apps when they have a operating system of their own?

I look at Apple Music on Android... its not the same as it is on iOS, especially the tablet version. The design of the Android app hasn't changed since iOS 11... they continue to update for certain bug fixes or whatnot. But I think its a factor of taking care of their own. Why would they pour tons of resourcing onto another platform when they have their own platform to sell?

 

[sparksd]

My hope is for Microsoft to port over Mac version to the iPad... specifically M1 iPads. And with news like FCP only for M1 iPads.. it might become a trend.


Tbf, it does makes sense. Why would Microsoft want parity among Mac/iPad apps when they have a operating system of their own?

I look at Apple Music on Android... its not the same as it is on iOS, especially the tablet version. The design of the Android app hasn't changed since iOS 11... they continue to update for certain bug fixes or whatnot. But I think its a factor of taking care of their own. Why would they pour tons of resourcing onto another platform when they have their own platform to sell?

Yeah, Microsoft is happy to see me use Office 365 on my Surface Pro 7. The flip side - you don't see a Windows version of FCP.

 

[petvas]

I stopped reading at the mgk only has 2 viewing angles and no good on the lap, as i type this on my lap using it lol.
All credibility gone.

yeah right. The Magic Keyboard is limited. If you are fine with it, ok, but I hate it.

 

[teh_hunterer]

At this point I see no reason the iPad shouldn't have a macOS interface and run macOS apps when docked to a monitor. Once you're docked to an external display, there's just no reason to be using Stage Manager instead of just macOS.

I understand why people want the iPad to stay an iPad, but once you're introducing external displays, you're introducing enough complexity that it may as well just be macOS.

Have it be an iPad when it's on its own, and a computer when it's got an external display.

 

[FeliApple]

I think this is funny. This is a community of, I dare say, more power users than not.

Even in this community, even here on this forum, which is a massive minority of power users which do not represent the majority of iPad buyers... the “leave the iPad alone” group (which I’m happily a part of) has well over twice the votes of the “obliterate and destroy the iPad enough so as to make it a Mac replacement to power users” group.

No further comments, Your Honour.

 

[1BadManVan]

I have an 11" pro but it doesn't replace my laptop for how I use them, not a power user by any means, but I like the balance my MacBook Air on the armrest of the couch and such and the iPad just doesn't balance the same way with the keyboard. Plus it feels too cramped for me on the 11" size. I didn't buy it to be a laptop replacement but I did give it try before purchasing a MacBook first. My iPad honestly doesn't get much usage anymore while I've been off work.

Its main usage for me was when I traveled for work because where I go usually has little to know wifi and my iPad being cellular fit the bill perfectly for that usage. But while im at home, I always migrate to my 14 pro max or my M2 air. Only time I bring the iPad out now is when I want to stream a show while im cooking lol

 

[iPadified]

No further comments, Your Honour.

By contrast, several power user have not understood the case is closed.

At this point I see no reason the iPad shouldn't have a macOS interface and run macOS apps when docked to a monitor. Once you're docked to an external display, there's just no reason to be using Stage Manager instead of just macOS.

I understand why people want the iPad to stay an iPad, but once you're introducing external displays, you're introducing enough complexity that it may as well just be macOS.

Have it be an iPad when it's on its own, and a computer when it's got an external display.

The reasoning works well if you come from MacOS perspective. However not if you only uses iPadOS and iOS, which many are.

 

[floral]

Okay, now this just feels like a rerun of the "iPad as a laptop replacement" thread, but specific to Macs. Should this be merged and/or locked?

 

[okkibs]

The convoluted MacOS wouldn't be the best solution. There is just this frustration about the walled garden approach and the limited features the OS exposes to apps, or arbitrarily restricts such as only being able to run WebKit. And even if sideloading comes worldwide for the next major OS version there is still only so much the OS allows them to do.

Ultimately, as nice as the iPads are now, MacOS has a lot going for it, and Apple should adapt many more of MacOS' abilities to improve the iPad. Stage Manager was a great first step in the right direction of implementing the multitasking that desktop OS' had for a long time, but doing it in "the iPad way". I just need many more of these features to be done in the same way.

If Apple removes the WebKit restriction as rumored that would be a first step towards allowing more apps with more features to finally come to the iPad. To me it's just painful that there are still things a cheap Android phone can do better than an iPad Pro with all the processing power in the tablet world.

 

[teh_hunterer]

The reasoning works well if you come from MacOS perspective. However not if you only uses iPadOS and iOS, which many are.

Who says I come from a "macOS perspective?"

 

[anselpela]

iPad is lean back. Mac is lean forward. This is not changing, will never change, and Apple should stop goading people into thinking it could.

I really don't know who is the to blame...some users for demanding the iPad be morphed into a Mac, or Apple for caving and designing terrible iPad features like Stage Manager. But it needs to stop. iPad needs to remain iPad. Mac needs to remain Mac.