Other shrinking the iPhone 12 Pro size to 5.4” is a bad idea

[m0sher]

I guess it depends which way they go with the new Pro devices next year

5.4
6.1 Pro
6.7 Pro

Or

5.4 Pro
6.1
6.7 Pro

Who is going to want 6.7 in their hand ? Shaq o Neil maybe, that’s it.

I think that’s even too large for a phablet.

I was holding out with my X for next year when I’m deciding to go to 6.5, now I’m contemplating getting the Pro Max this year and have it for a few years.

I hope the pro is 6.1 moving forward that would make more logical sense SE was always a budget phone as well as a small firm factor phone.

 

[wba1990]

Who is going to want 6.7 in their hand ? Shaq o Neil maybe, that’s it.

I think that’s even too large for a phablet.

I was holding out with my X for next year when I’m deciding to go to 6.5, now I’m contemplating getting the Pro Max this year and have it for a few years.

I hope the pro is 6.1 moving forward that would make more logical sense SE was always a budget phone as well as a small firm factor phone.

Similar reasons I’m debating getting a pro this year myself, 5.8 if perfect for me, yet looks very likely that size will be gone next year

 

[anthonymoody]

Even though I have huge hands, my body is ready for that 5.4.

View attachment 865452

Who is going to want 6.7 in their hand ? Shaq o Neil maybe, that’s it.

I think that’s even too large for a phablet.

I was holding out with my X for next year when I’m deciding to go to 6.5, now I’m contemplating getting the Pro Max this year and have it for a few years.

I hope the pro is 6.1 moving forward that would make more logical sense SE was always a budget phone as well as a small firm factor phone.

I think this mock up and your question misses a potentially important possibility: that the 6.7" screen is in a phone body with the same width and height as the current 11 Pro Max. A combination of smaller bezels and no rounding (recall the iPad Pro form factor rumor...) and it's certainly possible. .2" isn't that much.

 

[Mr.Blacky]

I'm sorry, but what would be "too small" with the 5,4" iPhone?
I swear, sooner or later many of you will run around with 15" smartphones, because every few years the current phones are "too small".

 

[JohnnyChuttz]

Smaller, lighter, with top of the line specs/cameras, I'm in!

 

[JPack]

I don’t doubt that the sizes are correct, but what could be wrong (or, I’m hoping is wrong) is the interpretation of which sizes correspond to which model. It could just be my own opinion colouring things but I really can’t see the sense of the Pro only being available at the two extremes of the size scale.

Which of these scenarios do you think is more likely?

A) Apple shocks 6.1" mainstream buyers paying $699 and asks them to pay $999 next year. Or else? Downgrade to a 5.4" display.​

​

B) Apple re-positions their least popular 5.8" model. The new 5.4" iPhone supports Apple's fastest growing wearables category, which will include Apple Glasses. Users are expected to spend less screen time and more "glasses" time.​

Let's also think about this globally.

Q: Which market in the world is the largest smartphone market?​

A: China​

In that market, the 5.8" form factor is completely obsolete. Entry level models with a 6.5" hole punch display sell for $200. What is the likelihood Apple will frustrate their own efforts in the largest market by chopping their 6.1" entry model down to 5.4"?

iPhone XR and 11 are Apple's bread and butter. They outsell the 5.8" and 6.5" models by at least 3:1.

For the "iPhone 6.1" Pro" theory to make any sense, Apple would have to willingly deliver shock and awe to $699 mainstream consumers and quite frankly, give up on China along with lower emerging markets like India.

 

[JPack]

Exactly my thoughts that I mentioned in an earlier thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2020-iphone-lineup.2197923/

In short, to me it seems more likely that the 5.8” and 6.5” Pro sizes are both creeping up to 6.1” and 6.7”, especially when you consider that the XS Max significantly outsold the XS. The 5.4” is a new “regular” model that will attract buyers still holding onto a 6/7/8 as it will be the same width as those models. Differentiating by size also offers a very tangible difference (and a cost saving) between the 12 and the 12 Pro now that LCD vs OLED isn’t going to be a factor.

Consider that Apple's biggest revenue stream for the next decade won't be iPhone. It will be subscription services. Having a "regular" iPhone at 5.4" hardly supports this. Look at why Apple increased the iPad from 9.7" to 10.2".

 

[MF878]

Consider that Apple's biggest revenue stream for the next decade won't be iPhone. It will be subscription services. Having a "regular" iPhone at 5.4" hardly supports this. Look at why Apple increased the iPad from 9.7" to 10.2".

You make a fair point when you point out the potential lack of appeal of a 5.4” entry level in China and India, but I’m not sure how the growth of services has anything to do with your point?

They increased the iPad to 10.2” to give it the same footprint as the 10.5” Air, so that it could use the same Smart Keyboard and be a bit more appealing as an affordable laptop alternative. That was nothing to do with the growth of services.

Offering a smaller iPhone doesn’t tie into services. Larger screens encourage more content consumption, which increases the use of services. If Apple is doing a 5.4” model, it is simply because there are still enough people out there who want something a little smaller than the current options. Whether it will be positioned as a 12 or 12 Pro depends on what the majority of people in that group are looking for with regards to price versus features. I would estimate that they are somewhat price conscious, and that is my argument for it being the entry level model. If you think the 5.4” model will be a Pro model, then your argument basically has to be that you think they are more feature conscious. It’s really as simple as that.

 

[JPack]

You make a fair point when you point out the potential lack of appeal of a 5.4” entry level in China and India, but I’m not sure how the growth of services has anything to do with your point?

Apple Services will be a hard sell if the entry level iPhone is only 5.4". For large and emerging markets where is no Apple ecosystem lock, a 5.4" device doesn't offer anything compelling. On top of that, it's too small for Apple Arcade or TV+.

They increased the iPad to 10.2” to give it the same footprint as the 10.5” Air, so that it could use the same Smart Keyboard and be a bit more appealing as an affordable laptop alternative. That was nothing to do with the growth of services.

If you look at the Overview page for the 10.2" iPad, it's the only iPad that talks about Apple TV+. The product pages for iPad Pro, Air, and Mini have been updated to mention iPadOS, but not Apple TV+. I agree the Smart Keyboard is a selling point, but I doubt many students are buying a $159 keyboard for a $329 iPad.

Offering a smaller iPhone doesn’t tie into services. Larger screens encourage more content consumption, which increases the use of services. If Apple is doing a 5.4” model, it is simply because there are still enough people out there who want something a little smaller than the current options. Whether it will be positioned as a 12 or 12 Pro depends on what the majority of people in that group are looking for with regards to price versus features. I would estimate that they are somewhat price conscious, and that is my argument for it being the entry level model. If you think the 5.4” model will be a Pro model, then your argument basically has to be that you think they are more feature conscious. It’s really as simple as that.

If Apple thinks smaller phones have good potential, why would they wait until 2020 to launch it? Why not launch it now? Personally, I don't think the 5.4" iPhone is a reactionary product to satisfy smaller phone users, many of which have already bought iPhone XR or 11. It's a strategic product intended to pair with Apple's new wearable for 2020.

 

[m0sher]

So I decide to bypass the next 2 years and went with 11Pro Max today and next year phones are now a moot point for me.

I’ll enjoy the 6.5 high end now with stellar camera.

If it’s 5.4 / 6.7 high end with 6.1 low end moving forward, this 11 Max I ordered today may be my last iPhone.

Here’s to hoping Apple doesn’t screw its up.

 

[44267547]

Who is going to want 6.7 in their hand ? Shaq o Neil maybe, that’s it.

I think that’s even too large for a phablet.

I was holding out with my X for next year when I’m deciding to go to 6.5, now I’m contemplating getting the Pro Max this year and have it for a few years.

I hope the pro is 6.1 moving forward that would make more logical sense SE was always a budget phone as well as a small firm factor phone.

Believe it or not, The SE Price point was not attainable in many countries. Especially in India, where $400 is not affordable for the average market (Which an Android phone tops off at like $200 for basic requirements.) The problem with the iPhone SE originally, it didn’t make Apple enough money. That’s why they discontinued it. Sure, it might be popular in some segments for those who want a smaller iPhone, but it didn’t suffice for emerging markets where for $400 is still excessive in some countries.

I suspect the 5.4 inch iPhone won’t be even comparable to what the SE once was, Apple obviously will have some of the latest technology involved into it, but the SE was really more of a ‘one time device’ that will never have anything similar to it again offered.

 

[MF878]

Apple Services will be a hard sell if the entry level iPhone is only 5.4". For large and emerging markets where is no Apple ecosystem lock, a 5.4" device doesn't offer anything compelling. On top of that, it's too small for Apple Arcade or TV+.



If you look at the Overview page for the 10.2" iPad, it's the only iPad that talks about Apple TV+. The product pages for iPad Pro, Air, and Mini have been updated to mention iPadOS, but not Apple TV+. I agree the Smart Keyboard is a selling point, but I doubt many students are buying a $159 keyboard for a $329 iPad.



If Apple thinks smaller phones have good potential, why would they wait until 2020 to launch it? Why not launch it now? Personally, I don't think the 5.4" iPhone is a reactionary product to satisfy smaller phone users, many of which have already bought iPhone XR or 11. It's a strategic product intended to pair with Apple's new wearable for 2020.

Your premise that people will want smaller phones if they own AR glasses is flawed. The Watch, for example, makes a larger phone MORE logical for me because I don’t have to pull it out of my pocket and handle it so much for basic tasks. In the past I never would’ve owned a 15” laptop, but now that the iPad Pro can handle most of my on-the-go tasks, I prefer the 15” MacBook Pro because the larger display and better performance are worth the portability hit now that I don’t have to take a Mac with me as often. It should also be noted that with the industry-wide war on bezels, most devices are staying the same size and getting bigger displays. The average display size on all our devices has continually gone up year after year.

And even if we assume your premise is correct, what happens if the glasses are a flop? Now consumer preference hasn’t been impacted like you thought it would and then you’ve got an iPhone model that’s underselling. Apple will wait and see if consumer preferences change, because it’s not like anyone else is pumping out small flagship phones that could steal their business.

To answer your last point, there could be many reasons why we’ve had to wait until 2020 for a smaller phone. Maybe they thought demand for small phones would keep shrinking but it has ended up stabilising? Maybe more iPhone 6/7/8 users than they thought were reluctant to upgrade last year because all the new options were bigger? Apple has the iPhone lineup basically set a year or more in advance, so they could only have realised this after 2019 was finalised and so it had to be deferred to 2020. It is not Apple’s style to rush something out, so they weren’t going to add a smaller phone to the 2019 lineup last minute.

 

[FlyingTexan]

The current 5.8” size iPhone X, Xs, 11 Pro seems to be a good size without being too big. If you want bigger you can go to a bigger but not crazy 6.5” size. However if Ming chi kuo is right (and he pretty much always is) the new sizes for iPhone 12 Pro will be a too small 5.4” and a crazy big 6.7”.
The model in the middle will be the regular iPhone 12. Not great though if you want a pro.

Customer : “I’d like to buy an iPhone 12 Pro please”
Apple : “certainly which size did you want, unappealing small or more expensive and way to big to hold?”

I want the smaller size and would pay a premium for it. Thanks

 

[whitedragon101]

Which of these scenarios do you think is more likely?

A) Apple shocks 6.1" mainstream buyers paying $699 and asks them to pay $999 next year. Or else? Downgrade to a 5.4" display.​

​

B) Apple re-positions their least popular 5.8" model. The new 5.4" iPhone supports Apple's fastest growing wearables category, which will include Apple Glasses. Users are expected to spend less screen time and more "glasses" time.​

Let's also think about this globally.

Q: Which market in the world is the largest smartphone market?​

A: China​

In that market, the 5.8" form factor is completely obsolete. Entry level models with a 6.5" hole punch display sell for $200. What is the likelihood Apple will frustrate their own efforts in the largest market by chopping their 6.1" entry model down to 5.4"?

iPhone XR and 11 are Apple's bread and butter. They outsell the 5.8" and 6.5" models by at least 3:1.

For the "iPhone 6.1" Pro" theory to make any sense, Apple would have to willingly deliver shock and awe to $699 mainstream consumers and quite frankly, give up on China along with lower emerging markets like India.

Unfortunately I think you‘re right. It just gives a crappy choice to customers who want the high end phone. Downgrade your screen or pay more for an unwieldy phablet.
[automerge]1570010995[/automerge]
I just thought of a secret option C. if all the models next year are OLED that removes a big differentiating factor between the pro and regular phone. What is all 3 phones are the same iPhone 12 just in 3 sizes? That would be perfect.

customer : “I’d like the new iPhone please“
apple : “certainly, small, medium or huge?”

 

[craigio85]

Which of these scenarios do you think is more likely?

A) Apple shocks 6.1" mainstream buyers paying $699 and asks them to pay $999 next year. Or else? Downgrade to a 5.4" display.​

​

B) Apple re-positions their least popular 5.8" model. The new 5.4" iPhone supports Apple's fastest growing wearables category, which will include Apple Glasses. Users are expected to spend less screen time and more "glasses" time.​

Let's also think about this globally.

Q: Which market in the world is the largest smartphone market?​

A: China​

In that market, the 5.8" form factor is completely obsolete. Entry level models with a 6.5" hole punch display sell for $200. What is the likelihood Apple will frustrate their own efforts in the largest market by chopping their 6.1" entry model down to 5.4"?

iPhone XR and 11 are Apple's bread and butter. They outsell the 5.8" and 6.5" models by at least 3:1.

For the "iPhone 6.1" Pro" theory to make any sense, Apple would have to willingly deliver shock and awe to $699 mainstream consumers and quite frankly, give up on China along with lower emerging markets like India.

Don’t doubt your arguments at all but it doesn’t change my view that it’s a poor range for the Pro that basically boils down to too small vs too big (for most users).

 

[700-Grizz]

Ill take the 6.7 Pro max please!!!