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compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
Film was very different, but that was a decade ago.

Not so very different I think- 35mm film cameras often had diffraction issues too, and film curvature was often more of a sharpness culprit than not...

Since f/C is a constant, independent of format, depth of field is constant for constant aperture opening a. And since f-stop N = f /a,

Depth of field is constant when the f-stop is proportional to the format size, i.e., DOF is the same for a 35mm image taken at f/11, a 6x7 image at f/22, a 4x5 image at f/45 or an 8x10 image at f/90.

This has important consequences when the lens sharpness becomes diffraction limited— beyond around f/11 for 35mm; slightly larger for large formats. (High quality lenses become diffraction-limited at larger apertures. The f-stop at which diffraction becomes dominant increases rather slowly with format size.) A lens is likely to be diffraction-limited when a large depth of field is required; the larger the format, the more it must be stopped down; hence the more likely it is to be diffraction-limited. Once a lens is diffraction-limited its resolution is inversely proportional to its f-stop. This leads to a rather surprising observation.

When a lens is stopped down so to achieve a large depth of field, and is diffraction-limited, increasing the format size does not increase image sharpness, i.e., total resolution. For example, an 8x10 image taken at f/64 will be no sharper than a 4x5 image taken at f/32.

This statement applies primarily to large formats (4x5 and above). For small formats, particularly 35mm, image sharpness is limited by film resolution. Fuji Provia 100F, one of the finest grained slide films, has resolution roughly equivalent to diffraction at f/16 ( f50 = 40 lp/mm; f20 = 70 lp/mm), but since the total system MTF is the product of the MTF of the individual components, you can see some improvement in overall sharpness for lens apertures as wide as f/8. You must choose film with care for optimum sharpness in the 35mm format. Film resolution also limits the sharpness of medium format images, but this is only noticeable on images larger than 13x19 inches— the maximum for inexpensive consumer printers.

and

Film doesn't lie perfectly flat— especially roll film (35mm and medium format). Sheet film is better. Film flatness is probably the least predictable of the factors that degrade image sharpness. According to Robert Monaghan, "film often buckles in 60% of 35mm SLRs tested, and virtually all medium format backs - by an average of 0.2mm (on 35mm). Yet even a 0.08 mm film bulge can reduce contrast by an astonishing 48%!" The latter number depends on the f-stop. The equation for the circle of confusion due to film bulge is (for focus near infinity: s >> f ),

Cbulge = bulge/f-stop

For a 0.08 mm bulge at f/5.6, Cbulge = 0.014mm. For a 0.2mm bulge at f/5.6, Cbulge = 0.036mm— worse that the circle of confusion at the DOF limit. Pretty bad. That's why we sometimes need to stop down a little more than optimum.

To further confound you, film flatness is a function of time after winding the film. And it's different for 35mm and medium format. According to Robert Monaghan, film gets flatter if you wait up to 30 minutes after winding 35mm film, but according to both Mohaghan and Zeiss (in Camera Lens News No. 10) the bulge increases with time after winding medium format film: it's small at 5 minutes, significant at 15 minutes and maximum after 2 hours. One solid piece of useful information from Zeiss: the bulge is only half as much for 220 film as it is for 120. (That means I have to buy a new back if I go back to using my old Hasselblad; a great temptation.) The Zeiss rule of thumb is, " For best sharpness in medium format, prefer 220 type roll film and run it through the camera rather quickly." Temperature and humidity probably also affect flatness.

Oh yes, digital cameras don't suffer from film flatness problems. That's one reason why their performance is expected to exceed 35mm with only 6 to 10 megapixel sensors (multiplied by 3 when converted to RGB file formats). For much more detail on film flatness, I recommend Robert Monaghan's exhaustive discussion (with reader comments).

Ref:

http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF6.html
 

compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
I remember that some Contax cameras had vacuum backs to help keep the film planar.

Yep, I think as usual, actual physics and actual measurement will be decried by most here, but I remember never wanting to do larger than 8x10 enlargements in my darkroom from 35mm negatives because of sharpness, and even shooting 645 was so much more preferable to 35mm so long as I didn't need a long telephoto. ISTR that Provia 100F had an RMS of 8, a far site better than Velvia's RMS of 9, and that was much better than the usual (12 or so?)
 

JFreak

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2003
3,152
9
Tampere, Finland
So, would you then agree with me that (with current digital cameras) after stopping down to f/8..10 there's no sharpness gain? I've recently become so fond of the old "f/8 and be there" mantra :D
 

compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
So, would you then agree with me that (with current digital cameras) after stopping down to f/8..10 there's no sharpness gain? I've recently become so fond of the old "f/8 and be there" mantra :D

It depends on the lens, and shooting conditions. Your lens might reach maximum sharpness at f/4. Your point to just shoot at f/8 doesn't take into account the lens, photographer or shutter movement- and that's where we depart- I believe that knowing where a lens's performance is best is the way to go, and I believe (and that's been a big part of my point in this thread) that if you're going to buy a lens, you should know how it performs _compared to its peers_, and if it meets your needs, don't worry about a "better" lens but understand that professional reviewers will take the differences into account.

If I have a lens that reaches maximum sharpness at f/4, I wouldn't shoot it at f/8 unless I wanted the additional depth of field *and* could weather the slower shutter speed that entails. For lots of reasons, halving the shutter speed contributes to sharpness- let's say that f/8 gets you 1/125th @200mm and you're shooting hand-held and the subject is in fast motion- the aperture alone is only one factor in sharpness, 1/125th might get you motion blur where 1/250th wouldn't and 1/250th is generally going to get you a sharper picture due to lack of time for camera motion.

The sharpness delta between f/4 and f/8 may be less than the subject motion blur between 1/30th and 1/60th. Subject movement through the plane of focus may make f/8 better than f/4- the generalization is too general for me...
 

compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
Generalizations generally assume still subject, such as ISO chart or landscape. But yes, I do know what you mean.

It's odd though isn't it that "f/8 and be there" seems to be attributed to press photographers in the 1940s with Speed Graphics (4x5) and flash bulbs? I love the twists though- "f/16 and be there" for landscape photographers, "f/64 and be there an hour early" for large format photographers... Hmm, "Two empty memory cards and be there!" for the D3 series? :)
 

epicwelshman

macrumors 6502a
Apr 6, 2006
810
0
Nassau, Bahamas
Manual focus tests should answer that question quite clearly. Sigma lenses typically aren't that difficult to adjust if you're not afraid of a screwdriver, but if it's in warranty they should fix it, and I'd recommend it since the D40x doesn't have microfocus adjustment- but I'll add that focus shouldn't have anything to do with aperture- it should miss by the same amount at any aperture it's just that the apparent plane of focus, rather than the actual plane of focus will appear larger (I'm not sure I could love a lens that doesn't hit focus, but I'm glad you're happy with yours.)


How would one go about resetting focus with a screwdriver. I live in The Bahamas, so sending items back for warranty is unrealistic.
 

compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
How would one go about resetting focus with a screwdriver. I live in The Bahamas, so sending items back for warranty is unrealistic.

Pics aren't there anymore, but the text in the links should help. You can read the entire thread, these are the important posts.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=12833550
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=12834004
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=14061543
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=14061569
 
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