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I think the days of dual CPU's are over. Intel is moving toward a ton of cores, it's just not efficient or cost effective anymore to manufacture, and add multiple CPU's.

Apple knows this, and already moved toward single CPU enclosure.

For Apple sure it looks over, but that is because the Mac Pro had become such a small part of Apple's business that in order to keep it they had to do something different and cater to as much of an audience as they could while keeping costs down, and making it so people won't hang on to systems for 6 years.

Apple have a tiny part of the desktop workstation market and mostly cater to content creation. They are not representative of the vast userbase for high-end workstations.

Other vendors aren't like Apple and want all the business they can get. Apple's 12-core box will probably be more than dual CPU 12 core boxes that will likely have faster clock-rates, offer 4 times the memory support and 4 full PCI-E x16 slots. Hardly efficient for users.
 
Out of curiosity, what do people do with 24 processor cores? I remember a documentary about South Park where they said the entire show is animated and rendered on regular iMacs. 4K video editing can put a lot of stress on a computer but it looks like the new Pro was designed specifically for that.

We have one in our office that is used to create large amounts of zip files being generated by a custom content management system. The faster the chips, the faster it can crunch the math and spit out the zips. Our use isn't as intensive as some doing HD and 4K video, but the problem is still the same... the faster it can work, the more we can get done in a day.
 
For Apple sure it looks over, but that is because the Mac Pro had become such a small part of Apple's business that in order to keep it they had to do something different and cater to as much of an audience as they could while keeping costs down, and making it so people won't hang on to systems for 6 years.

Apple have a tiny part of the desktop workstation market and mostly cater to content creation. They are not representative of the vast userbase for high-end workstations.

Other vendors aren't like Apple and want all the business they can get. Apple's 12-core box will probably be more than dual CPU 12 core boxes that will likely have faster clock-rates, offer 4 times the memory support and 4 full PCI-E x16 slots. Hardly efficient for users.

There's probably going to be multi cpu options that exist, but I think you'll see less of it. I'm not just speaking about Apple. I think it will be industry wide.
 
There's probably going to be multi cpu options that exist, but I think you'll see less of it. I'm not just speaking about Apple. I think it will be industry wide.

I agree... Outside the server room, we have to be at that turning point soon where GPUs are more important to tasks that lend themselves to parallelism than CPUs with 12+ cores. I still don't have any software besides Handbrake on my Mac that can max out all 4 of my CPU cores and even its recently been updated to use OpenCL. GPU processing power FTW!
 
My actual fantasy is a system with a few-core, very high clock speed and Turbo enabled processor for the serial tasks in life married to a Xeon Phi (in my case) or a GPU for others for the parallel stuff.
 
Here's hoping for Maxwell / open cl, too. They did announce it somewhat if I remember correctly, opposed to CUDA support. I think for v2, which I luckily own. Intersting as a node, theoretically yes. And I also don't understand why everybody assumes that we won't see any 2-proc solutions in the future anymore. If anything, this redesign shows that Apple is still interested in it's Mac section.

Next Limit has never announced GPU support for Maxwell of any kind.
 
Longtime 3D artist who's owned many top end Mac Pro's and PC's here.

Overall it is unfortunate that for the first time the new Mac Pro will be, at best, half as fast as what is available on the PC side at launch for my company's work.

I don't get the obsession with making a workstation so small. It's nice, sure, but the existing Mac Pro was already among the smallest in its class.

Here's hoping for a dual CPU version so we can continue on the platform.
 
Next Limit has never announced GPU support for Maxwell of any kind.

Can't find it right now, but could have sworn that I read a PDF stating that they aren't interested in CUDA but Open CL looks promising for the future. But ya, announced has been nothing so far.
 
Can't find it right now, but could have sworn that I read a PDF stating that they aren't interested in CUDA but Open CL looks promising for the future. But ya, announced has been nothing so far.

That may be true - NL overall has tended towards OpenCL. The new RealFlow has limited OpenCL support. So who knows, maybe Maxwell 3.

It'll be interesting though. Not a lot of renderers on OpenCL. Octane, V-Ray, Arion, RedShift, all CUDA only. Chaos Group was both but is dropping CL now.
 
That may be true - NL overall has tended towards OpenCL. The new RealFlow has limited OpenCL support. So who knows, maybe Maxwell 3.

It'll be interesting though. Not a lot of renderers on OpenCL. Octane, V-Ray, Arion, RedShift, all CUDA only. Chaos Group was both but is dropping CL now.

With Vray it's just Vray-RT anyway. OpenCL support was probably more for Mac users than anything.
 
Other vendors aren't like Apple and want all the business they can get. Apple's 12-core box will probably be more than dual CPU 12 core boxes that will likely have faster clock-rates, offer 4 times the memory support and 4 full PCI-E x16 slots. Hardly efficient for users.

Apple's box will probably cost less for a wide spectrum of those competitive configurations.

a. Apple will only have one bank of RAM to fill. That is actually an advantage is trying to hit a lower price point for standard configurations.

4 x 2GB RAM DIMMs is going to be cheaper than 8 x 2GB RAM DIMMs. More RAM in the second but also paid more.

b. Apple's one 12 core is going to cost less than two of the 'old' top end 6-8 cores. If up against two 'old' entry-mid level 6 cores offerings then probably will have base clock speed advantage.


Apple's out-the-door with a standard configuration price is likely going to be lower than some z820 or T7600 model . That extra "potential" value of 4 x16 slots and substantially more RAM DIMMs slots are going rack up a price premium with the other major system vendors in price.

The Mac Pro will do somewhat less and cost less ( Especially if Apple wrangled a deal for their custom GPUs cards and uses that for cost competitiveness. )

There is nothing in the new design that indicates Apple is trying to compose a system that costs much more than dual package , everything and the kitchen sink inside , workstations. In fact, it looks to be very much to be geared to undercut those prices.

The Mac Pro is aimed far more at replacing the current single package Mac Pros. There is some targeting of old dual customers were the second GPU can take over computational duties, but buy-in-large it is a CPU users that are targeted. The design is going to rely on Intel steadily cranking up the 2600 core count to enhance that "partial coverage" over time.
 
a. Apple will only have one bank of RAM to fill. That is actually an advantage is trying to hit a lower price point for standard configurations.

4 x 2GB RAM DIMMs is going to be cheaper than 8 x 2GB RAM DIMMs. More RAM in the second but also paid more.

But we're comparing to products for people that might actually need those 8 DIMMs. This is kind of an odd possition. Your're saying this will be cheaper than products with 8 DIMMs because it doesn't have 8 DIMMs. But IT DOESN'T HAVE 8 DIMMS, so why would someone shopping for a computer that needs 8 DIMMs look at this Mac Pro. Or conversly, why would a shopper looking for a computer that only needs 4 DIMMs look at computers with 8?

b. Apple's one 12 core is going to cost less than two of the 'old' top end 6-8 cores. If up against two 'old' entry-mid level 6 cores offerings then probably will have base clock speed advantage.

The top end 12 core will likely get you 2x of the 2850's, which will be 8 cores each for 16 total cores at 2.6 GHz, compared to 12 cores at 2.7. Not sure what exactly your point here is, but at the same CPU cost you can generally get better performance with DP systems, except at the very low end.

Apple's out-the-door with a standard configuration price is likely going to be lower than some z820 or T7600 model . That extra "potential" value of 4 x16 slots and substantially more RAM DIMMs slots are going rack up a price premium with the other major system vendors in price.

But they also have single processor systems they will let you stick the 2687W in, if you like. So...huh?

The Mac Pro is aimed far more at replacing the current single package Mac Pros. There is some targeting of old dual customers were the second GPU can take over computational duties, but buy-in-large it is a CPU users that are targeted. The design is going to rely on Intel steadily cranking up the 2600 core count to enhance that "partial coverage" over time.

Indeed, but for the forseeable future mid range DP systems are going to be a better value than high end SP systems. So, anyone that really wants 12+ cores is going to being paying extra to be using a Mac. And as such, I think this partial coverage thing isn't going to work out all that well. What Apple really needs this new Mac Pro to do, is cut into the lower price ranges more effectively, not the upper.
 
Got a farm. Don't want to make my preview renders and fluid sims take twice as long as necessary.
exactly.
We have a farm here too.
That doesn't lessen the need for massive online rendering capability. You still need previews, and you still need horsepower for stuff that isn't farmable.
All our Mac Pros are the Max config money could buy a few months ago.
Keeping fingers crossed for a TB to fiber dongle. Otherwise we can't go with the new Mac Pros for our Marketing dept refresh, as we have a SAN.
 
Open CL next limit

I din't realise that realflow already used open cl that's welcome news ! I also never read anything positive about GPU computing from Maxwell. I did read they were not interested a couple of times because of accuracy issues. I'd love a small farm so ip over thunderbolt would be useful. Although the new pro does have dual ethernet ports it's not completely un usable. The dual processor problem is the only one i see (apart from the price as always).
 
exactly.
We have a farm here too.
That doesn't lessen the need for massive online rendering capability. You still need previews, and you still need horsepower for stuff that isn't farmable.
All our Mac Pros are the Max config money could buy a few months ago.
Keeping fingers crossed for a TB to fiber dongle. Otherwise we can't go with the new Mac Pros for our Marketing dept refresh, as we have a SAN.

Here you go: http://www.promise.com/storage/raid_series.aspx?region=en-global&m=192&rsn1=40&rsn3=49

Also the new Mac Pro's with a single processor are probably going to be faster than any dual CPU config you have now. So you're complaining about getting a faster machine? If what you have works for you now, then anything in the future will be even faster. I think your industry will be fine.

Also video/film production is still the holy grail for specs. If this machine can serve them, I think 3D artists will survive.
 
For Apple sure it looks over, but that is because the Mac Pro had become such a small part of Apple's business that in order to keep it they had to do something different and cater to as much of an audience as they could while keeping costs down, and making it so people won't hang on to systems for 6 years.

Apple have a tiny part of the desktop workstation market and mostly cater to content creation. They are not representative of the vast userbase for high-end workstations.

Other vendors aren't like Apple and want all the business they can get. Apple's 12-core box will probably be more than dual CPU 12 core boxes that will likely have faster clock-rates, offer 4 times the memory support and 4 full PCI-E x16 slots. Hardly efficient for users.

Can't wait for all the crying when people buy this thing and see they can't replace the GPU's in the future.
 
Can't wait for all the crying when people buy this thing and see they can't replace the GPU's in the future.

Umm.... Yeah, I forgot the current Mac Pro has been a dream to upgrade the GPU...
- Only One low-end and one mid-end card that get updated every 2-3 years
- Official cards that are twice the price of PC equivalents
- Only one dual width slot to work with
- Only one pair of 6-pin PEG connectors to work with
- Only one display port on Nvidia cards for those that like multiple ACDs
- No boot screen on non-flashed cards (and no dual boot)
- Mixed bag driver support
- Lack of PCIe 2 speeds on some cards

Do you honestly think most people want to deal with this?

I'll take two high-end GPUs that will last me the life of the machine over this crap any day of the week.
 
I'll take two high-end GPUs that will last me the life of the machine over this crap any day of the week.

I think I replaced my GPU once, it was expensive, and not even worth it. I can understand complaints about internal storage to some degree, but I don't care about benchmark gamers who just want the latest graphics card to show off.

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Overall it is unfortunate that for the first time the new Mac Pro will be, at best, half as fast as what is available on the PC side at launch for my company's work.

Again, what is your current Mac Pro lacking? New Mac Pro's are going to blow away your old machine, even with a single CPU. I don't get people trashing a machine that they haven't even used yet. Is your work dying to upgrade immediately because your renders are too slow?
 
I think I replaced my GPU once, it was expensive, and not even worth it. I can understand complaints about internal storage to some degree, but I don't care about benchmark gamers who just want the latest graphics card to show off.

Umm.... Yeah, I forgot the current Mac Pro has been a dream to upgrade the GPU...
Do you honestly think most people want to deal with this?

I'll take two high-end GPUs that will last me the life of the machine over this crap any day of the week.

Thanks for the DOUBLE HELPING of Cool Aid, boys.

Simple comparison here, 2008 Mac Pro vs 2008 iMac.

The 2008 Mac Pro came with a 2600XT but if you want, you can slap a GTX680 and run latest CUDA stuff with ease. My 2008 is running 8@ 3.2 Ghz CPUs, 24 GB of RAM and an EFI GTX770, latest & greatest GPU tech.

The 2008 iMac?

"Apple still uses ATI’s Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB of RAM in the low-end iMac. Both the 2.66GHz and 2.8GHz iMacs use ATI’s Radeon HD 2600 Pro with 256MB of memory. The 3.06GHz build-to-order iMac features a new video card for the iMac line: Nvidia’s 512MB GeForce 8800 GS."

So, if you were Super Duper lucky, you have an 8800GS. End of the road. A watered down 8800GT. No MPE support, just very basic CUDA and OpenCl. So the 2008 Mac Pro can still do useful work, the iMac goes in the kiddies playroom. The 2008 iMac is STUCK in 2008.

In 5 years the FirePro whatever is going to be just as outdated. The only difference will be that you won't be able to do much about it. I guess the kiddies playroom will be getting a better class of computer. "Apple is doing the kids a favor"

Cue the Kool Aid Squad in 5...4....3.....
 
I think I replaced my GPU once, it was expensive, and not even worth it. I can understand complaints about internal storage to some degree, but I don't care about benchmark gamers who just want the latest graphics card to show off.

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Again, what is your current Mac Pro lacking? New Mac Pro's are going to blow away your old machine, even with a single CPU. I don't get people trashing a machine that they haven't even used yet. Is your work dying to upgrade immediately because your renders are too slow?

I replaced my GPU 3 times, starting from the top of the line at purchase. But I just do 3d work, nothing taxing like video :confused:
 
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