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Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
Even on Windows things are not plain sailing. An example I am interested in (not professionally but for a house renovation I am doing) is using the Pro version of Sketch-up which is a 3D program which can do architecture, and perhaps the V-Ray plug in which output can provide realistic picture simulation views.

With Windows evidently, firstly Sketch-up is single threaded, so single thread performance is where its at for the CPU ... and then, there is also a hybrid way it works, where it also uses the GPU, but .... the GPU needs to be an Nvidia to work well. So Windows isn't so simple.

Then with the M processor, Sketchup had it working in Rosetta for ages ... now, its working native ... but its not utilising the GPU part of the processor, from what I have been able to find out. And the V-Ray side initially did not work, with some direct calls having to be made via the Unix window - terminal screen to get it to work ... via Rosetta. Later maybe it'll use the CPU correctly, and maybe the GPU side.

Perhaps though, if the various parts of the software do go native to the CPU and the GPU part of the processor, then such software houses will have less work to do, as once they get the work done, updates may be quite simple.

I can see the sense in Apple having introduced the notebook M Pro and Max before the Mac Pro desktop(s). What point is there in them for some, if the software hasn't yet taken advantage of the new Apple single memory and on chip powerful GPU architecure?

I looked to in Australia at an MSI notebook (& others) with a 3080 GPU - and to choose the 64 GB RAM version instead of 32 GB for the notebook, the memory cost increase was about double Apple's 64 GB RAM price increase from 32 GB.
 
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Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,182
1,545
Denmark
Even on Windows things are not plain sailing. An example I am interested in (not professionally but for a house renovation I am doing) is using the Pro version of Sketch-up which is a 3D program which can do architecture, and perhaps the V-Ray plug in which output can provide realistic picture simulation views.

With Windows evidently, firstly Sketch-up is single threaded, so single thread performance is where its at for the CPU ... and then, there is also a hybrid way it works, where it also uses the GPU, but .... the GPU needs to be an Nvidia to work well. So Windows isn't so simple.

Then with the M processor, Sketchup had it working in Rosetta for ages ... now, its working native ... but its not utilising the GPU part of the processor, from what I have been able to find out. And the V-Ray side initially did not work, with some direct calls having to be made via the Unix window - terminal screen to get it to work ... via Rosetta. Later maybe it'll use the CPU correctly, and maybe the GPU side.

Perhaps though, if the various parts of the software do go native to the CPU and the GPU part of the processor, then such software houses will have less work to do, as once they get the work done, updates may be quite simple.

I can see the sense in Apple having introduced the notebook M Pro and Max before the Mac Pro desktop(s). What point is there in them for some, if the software hasn't yet taken advantage of the new Apple single memory and on chip powerful GPU architecure?

I looked to in Australia at an MSI notebook (& others) with a 3080 GPU - and to choose the 64 GB RAM version instead of 32 GB for the notebook, the memory cost increase was about double Apple's 64 GB RAM price increase from 32 GB.
What incentive could Google possibly have to move at an glacial speed with regards to macOS and SketchUp ??‍♂️

UPDATE: I didn't realise Google sold, so I stand corrected.
 
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Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
What incentive could Google possibly have to move at an glacial speed with regards to macOS and SketchUp ??‍♂️
Uhm ... nothing. But Trimble - a top 900 fortune company with 9,000 odd employees and lots of companies under them - bought Sketchup in 2012, so Google has had nothing to do with Sketchup for getting onto a decade. And if they did own it, Mac users pay annual fees to use the Pro version of the program, so there is an incentive. Hence the porting to the M1 chip.
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,182
1,545
Denmark
Uhm ... nothing. But Trimble - a top 900 fortune company with 9,000 odd employees and lots of companies under them - bought Sketchup in 2012, so Google has had nothing to do with Sketchup for getting onto a decade. And if they did own it, Mac users pay annual fees to use the Pro version of the program, so there is an incentive. Hence the porting to the M1 chip.
Ah didn't realise. Thanks for the correction.
 

Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
Ah didn't realise. Thanks for the correction.
My point though was that Apple has around 10% of PC sales. On top of that they have a strong share of smart phone and Pad sales. If software vendors can tailer their app to work on Apple's architecture, it might require less ongoing costs to keep such software going over time, than for the multiple combinations of PC configurations, which change via multiple CPUs being available at one time, two main producers of GPUs with various generational changes available at one time, and OS changes as well.

If Apple can produce SoCs with powerful GPU performance, which does seem to be the case for notebooks, it might mean software companies can keep on providing compatibility cheaply for the new Mac architecture and for future Macs. And for competitive prices. Right now, GPUs cost a lot of money, and perhaps the best performing GPUs haven't worked on Mac operating systems for several years.

Perhaps one port to M architecture and keeping up with Mac machine upgrades will be easier to do for software companies. Compared to our departing era that had Macs with expensive Intel processors that also had added on Apple's own system on chip T generation co-processor, performing vital security etc but also lots of image and graphic co-processing, while at the same time Apple wouldn't allow Nvidia GPUs to work. What a mess ...

Maybe the future will be easier for software houses after they port to Mac, to keep their programs going on the Apple platforms?
 
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crazy dave

macrumors 65816
Sep 9, 2010
1,453
1,229
Cool. So his render probably would see performance increases from utilizing the hardware bvh units.

Technically I’m wrong: the CUDA API can access tensor cores but not RTX cores. You need the OptiX API for the latter, but the OptiX API can interoperate with CUDA code. So you can have both in your renderer.
 

ElfinHilon

macrumors regular
May 18, 2012
142
48
I know I've been critical about this in the past, but I do think that Windows will eventually come to bare metal macs on M1. It'll take time though.
 
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Erasmus

macrumors 68030
Jun 22, 2006
2,756
299
Australia
I know I've been critical about this in the past, but I do think that Windows will eventually come to bare metal macs on M1. It'll take time though.
I know most people here are saying never never never, because they don't think MS or Apple would want this to happen.

I disagree with this sentiment completely, as from what I see of each company's business model, Microsoft wants to sell as many copies of Windows and Office subscriptions as possible (Mac version of Office is terrible! Who would willingly pay money for it???). Whereas having Macs be capable of running Windows and Windows apps with ease removes one more roadblock for people who might be thinking of buying Apple hardware.

I think it's in both Microsoft and Apple's best interests to make it happen. It was worth it for them when Apple switched to Intel, after all.
 
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