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So that's a firm no on the filesystem?
- Thread starter ashindnile
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Not sure what the confusion is here.. its just semantics now.
We understand the difference between the file system, and file management. Everyone here understands the iPad has a file system.
Completely agree...
Per app sandboxing and app to app duplication via open in share sheets is just crazy, so inefficient and clumsy! But then everything under iOS is clumsy, the way Music and Photos are managed is just insane!
We need one central App (iCloud Drive App) to manage our files both in the cloud, locally and be massively enhanced and improved with added features bringing it closer to Finder on OSX! With functionality added from the photos app to give us a unified experience with access to our photos directly! The photos app can just work as a basic photo viewer...
There needs to be one central sandbox for each app to store it's documents in subfolders (iCloud Drive App Local Storage) with a layer of permissions in the shape of alerts and per app privacy settings to accompany what we already have!
X App would like access to Photos
X App would like access to the Microphone
X App would like access to Facebook
X App would like access to X App
All manageable in the settings app under the Privacy tab where each app gets its own area.
Yeah that is how I feel - This could be done such that those who don't want to manage their files can leave a setting turned off and run it the 'old way' and turned on for those who want to manage these things.
I'd love (For example) to be able to select any file in safari and press download and save it to his central app storage thing.
Sure, call me deranged, with your phenomenal grammar and comprehension skills.
It's 'clumsy' and 'inefficient' for you because you're approaching it all the same way you would on a desktop computer. You're expecting identical behavior in the OSX model and iOS model. When you don't see it, you label iOS 'insane'.
Yes a downloads tab in safari like on OSX would be great, saved to local storage easily accessible via the Drive app and any other app with local storage permissions...
X App would like access to your Safari downloads folder
Or just go flat out and let any app save locally but each app needs permission to access local storage...
X App would like access to local storage
So saving multiple copies of files to local storage in each apps sandboxed documents folder and wasting the end users time with open in sheet after open in sheet because you can't improve on a bad design is good?
Just because the iOS model is different doesn't make it better! Here is a little comparison just for fun under a scenario where a user wants to open a design app to work on a file that was previously worked on in an alternative drawing app...
Desktop method
1) open drawing app
2) open file
iOS (Mobile?) method
1) open design app where app was originally worked on
2) open the file picker and and select the desired file
3) use a share/open in sheet to open in app of choice
4) open file
5) close the previous app (if you don't want it in the way of your workflow)
The iOS model is not just different to that of the desktop model, it's incredibly inefficient and time consuming! Apple is meant to be about simplicity and a mobile OS if anything is suppose to be more simplistic than a desktop one! Not more complicated...
Now don't get me wrong, there are times when the share sheet is very useful, and time efficient when one wants to share something they are actively viewing or working on such as sharing a page being viewed in Safari via an email or an iMessage or sharing a note actively being composed from the notes app in the same fashion, or sending a photo(s) straight from the photos app as one is browsing their photos, but that's the sharing side of things, which is (or should be) completely different to the file management side of things!
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1) open app of choice
2) open the file picker, and select the desired file from cloud storage
3) open file
There, fixed it for you.
Or perhaps people just work differently, and require different things to work efficiently.
Not every app supports the document picker. And even if it did, the file required is loaded into its own sandbox. Which brings us back to the duplication discussion.
Further more, most apps come with their own method of reaching cloud storage services, wasting storage space yet again. For example most file manager apps separately require a log in+authentication for each cloud servuce you want to connect, instead of using the document picker.
I've always utilized the cloud for movie edits even 4k because I use iMovie. It works very well for me so I don't need to worry about what to do with those relatively large files. It works especially well because in combination with iCloud Photo Library the media is getting to my iMac via Apples cloud services in the first place.
Its not uncommon for me for my media to go iPhone > Cloud > iMac > Cloud > iPad > Youtube. For example just messing around with my iPhone...yes this video is way to long and needs to be cut way down but its a good example of utilizing iCloud.
I get what you are saying. I think one of Apples major problems is sandboxing. It would be very tough for them to maintain the app sandbox integrity if they introduce a central location of files and apps to freely communicate with that location. Its like unlocking the door between hotel rooms but just hoping no one walks through because they are not supposed to....
That is not the point. No reason that Apple can't make a few (optional) changes that would make the iPad usable for so many more people.
The iPad is not quite a runaway success - so perhaps its time for Apple to continue making it a good tool for more people, like they started with split screen multitasking.
That being said I remember how anti spilt screen multitasking people were... and anti iCloud Drive etc.
Yeah you fixed it providing one wants to use cloud storage! So this revolutionary new school method of file management forces one to store their files in the cloud!? So if away from an Internet connection or I don't know, wanting to store your files locally on the device you paid good money for on the storage you paid an arm and a leg to upgrade to, you're out of luck?
Oh well we don't need more than 16GB after all, maybe apps shouldn't even be stored locally and just be streamed from the cloud, that will be cool when one has a poor internet connection! Revolutionary...
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I'm pretty confident to say that: There will never be a generic desktop type filesystem on iOS.
It is not what Apple has designed iOS to function like, and they have built APIs to allow apps to talk outside their sandbox to other apps specifically to avoid putting in a general filesystem.
If you want a filesystem on your phone, you should probably buy something else.
The filesystem is a concept that apple is moving away from, on OS X as well, by encouraging people to use iCloud. The idea being that your documents are stored long term off the device, and accessible from any device via some form of syncing.
It's not just apple doing it. MS are pushing oneDrive, because the way the industry is going in general is towards any document you have on any or all devices you own. A traditional filesystem gets in the way of this.
No, the doors would not be unlocked! Currently no guest is allowed in another guests room, even via invitation! The new method I am suggesting would allow one guest to invite another guest in to their room, and even have the free will to say, you know what, here's a key to my room, I am happy for you to come and go as you please until a time I decide this arrangement is unfit, at which point I will ask for my key back!
And by any hacker that is smart enough to gain access to your cloud storage!
So because we can't trust other apps that we actively install on our devices with our documents, we should happily trust them in cloud storage, because that's so much better?
All of this is irrelevant anyway because apps can share files locally without privacy concerns as the choice would be given to the end user and the ability to monitor said privacy between apps via the settings app would be both easy and convenient!
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It's obvious to me that all operating systems, including Windows and OSX, are either assuming ubiquitous internet connectivity now (Chromebooks), or are rapidly moving towards that in the near future.
I can't imagine going back to a world where I edit a document on my laptop, then email it to myself to edit it on my phone, then email it back to myself to get it home, then use a thumb drive to share it with a colleague... that's literally what it was like. And apparently you find that preferable to cloud storage.
Cloud storage is convenient and a great feature which I'm happy I can use for all the reasons you mentioned and more! However, one should not be forced to use it! I am happy to use cloud storage and I do so, but I also would like to keep important documents I may need when away from an Internet connection locally and have as much flexibility when I do so as when I store files in the cloud! There is room for two models and each have there strengths and weaknesses but one shouldn't be forced to use one over the other...
Well hold on...
You want a unified storage system that is local to the device. iCloud Drive does that, if I make a document in Pages and don't have any internet connection it still saves and I can open it with another app or within the iCloud Drive app.
I just won't be able to open it on another device until I have an internet connection to sync with.
However you are suggesting local storage without an internet connection. How is that any different? What are you/we talking about?
That was the purpose of iCloud Drive, aside from that, sandboxing apps is the way to go. Apps sharing common storage on a local mobile device is like saying mainframe is the way to go for a server these days. It's obsolete. To explain why Apple chooses not to create a "local user profile" on the iPhone is a lengthy discussion but it all comes back to apps being liberal with your data and consumer privacy.
I'm not going to comment on the merit of trusting a third party with all your data (however, the status quo with iOS, is what it is... which is largely why i personally use ownCloud, and soon, NextCloud), but if you think that sharing data between apps is as simple as you think, you are mistaken, there's 30+ years of computer industry security fail to prove you wrong on that.
iOS has been built differently (to traditional computers) from the outset, and Apple are attempting to avoid the mistakes of the past with it. Hence, they're being very careful about NOT allowing applications to directly access the filesystem of the device, but to go through a broker service instead. Which is why you won't see a generic filesystem that allows you to access all things on the device.
Yes, having direct access to the filesystem may enable you to do more things. But it also enables malware do more easily do more things, too.
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That's also true of any computer you have connected to the network - even if the file is stored locally. The only way to sufficiently secure your computer from anybody else ever looking at your stuff is to never connect it to a network.