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DaniJoy

macrumors 6502
Nov 19, 2015
394
333
California
Totally true!!

...unless you do a lot of drawing, you want to do multiple media types (pencil, pen, color pencil, watercolor, paint, etc.), larger canvas, etc.

Non-digital art can get expensive FAST.


Exactly. Also, with digital art, you can undo. How many drawings get ruined by one misstroke? With digital, you can keep redoing that stroke until you get it right.
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Sure, but does Mom need all that software?



U can always tell digital only artists, they overwork everything. And digital art tends to look all the same, because of software limitations. Drawings look better with confident strokes. U only learn that by ruining lots of drawings. And if one is learning to draw- an undo button will become a crutch. I use digital because it's faster for commercial art. But is it better for art? No way. I would much rather use traditional rather than digital media. It's Much more affordable and enjoyable. Pencil and paper is cheap. So is water colors. I could paint for a decade for the cost of one iPad Pro. I have over a grand into mine, that's allot of art supplies.

The iPad pencil feels nothing like a real pencil. I use pencils everyday. And there is a digital disconnect and parallax with digital devices. iPad lacks an a analogue feel- Wacom does this much better- imo. The things holding the pro back is the software and low end hardware specs (fine for hobby drawing- lacking for commercial art). But not everyone needs full photoshop or sketchbook pro.

Drawing apps are far superior on Windows. But few really care or need those capabilities. Simplicity wins for hobby artists.

That said, iPad is one of the best digital drawing experiences. It's defiantly a little bit better than n-trig (surface) and almost was good as Wacom in my personal experience. The iPad is defiantly the best low end solution available, I just miss my favorite art programs.
 

bensisko

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2002
1,471
1,307
The Village
U can always tell digital only artists, they overwork everything. And digital art tends to look all the same, because of software limitations. Drawings look better with confident strokes. U only learn that by ruining lots of drawings. And if one is learning to draw- an undo button will become a crutch. I use digital because it's faster for commercial art. But is it better for art? No way. I would much rather use traditional rather than digital media. It's Much more affordable and enjoyable. Pencil and paper is cheap. So is water colors. I could paint for a decade for the cost of one iPad Pro. I have over a grand into mine, that's allot of art supplies.

The iPad pencil feels nothing like a real pencil. I use pencils everyday. And there is a digital disconnect and parallax with digital devices. iPad lacks an a analogue feel- Wacom does this much better- imo. The things holding the pro back is the software and low end hardware specs (fine for hobby drawing- lacking for commercial art). But not everyone needs full photoshop or sketchbook pro.

Drawing apps are far superior on Windows. But few really care or need those capabilities. Simplicity wins for hobby artists.

That said, iPad is one of the best digital drawing experiences. It's defiantly a little bit better than n-trig (surface) and almost was good as Wacom in my personal experience. The iPad is defiantly the best low end solution available, I just miss my favorite art programs.

I'm glad you find enjoyment in expressing yourself in a traditional medium and I respect you have your own view on the value of art and how it's produced.

I disagree with your views on the undo button being a crutch. It's a tool and it can be incredibly valuable learning how to draw. I don't think there is only "one way" to learn anything - it's a matter of what works best for the individual.

I also disagree with your view that traditional media is "better for art" then digital - not even from a technical PoV. What matters is the expression and impression created - not how it was created. Any artist will choose the best medium for them to express themselves and/or gain enjoyment. Art progresses by statement, not by technique.

Your statement on parallax (assuming you're talking about the iPad Pro and the Apple Pencil) is your own view. You are the first I've ever heard anybody complain about parallax with the Apple Pencil. It's something that has bothered me to no end with previous bluetooth iPad Pencils (to the point of being unusable), but personally I have not had this at all with the Apple Pencil. If I make the mark on the screen with an Apple Pencil, the mark shows up exactly where I expect it to - I wouldn't be able to use it otherwise.

I also disagree with your statement of "pro needs". I won't say much about this because the argument of "pro" has been done to death. I'll just say that people get too hung up on that term and become obsessed with having "pro" gear. It's not about the gear, it's about the output.

Lastly, I will ask you NOT to make snide assumptions about others. My background in art is with traditional mediums, so I know first hand how much art supplies cost. I MUCH prefer digital (for many reasons, not the least of which are cost, portability and it opens up new possibilities and options I didn't have before), but I don't think it's any better or worse than traditional mediums - it's just what the individual prefers. In the case of creating art (hobbiest or professional), as with everything, the right tool for the job is the right tool for the individual.
 

rowspaxe

macrumors 68020
Jan 29, 2010
2,214
1,009
U can always tell digital only artists, they overwork everything. And digital art tends to look all the same, because of software limitations.
Total BS. There is tons of digital art on You Tube of almost infinate variety. OK, maybe its alittle anime heavy! A lot of illustrator pros have switched over to digital for speed and presentation. Maybe the poster is referring to fine artists, I don't know. The idea that digital art is intrinsically overworked seems odd. Digital allows you to rework picture sections in layers without overworking and artifacting. Its allows total freedom in that respect
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Lastly, I will ask you NOT to make snide assumptions about others. My background in art is with traditional mediums, so I know first hand how much art supplies cost. I MUCH prefer digital (for many reasons, not the least of which are cost, portability and it opens up new possibilities and options I didn't have before), but I don't think it's any better or worse than traditional mediums - it's just what the individual prefers. In the case of creating art (hobbiest or professional), as with everything, the right tool for the job is the right tool for the individual.

No one is invalidating your choices, they are just expressing their ideas and preferences. I didn't see anything snide in any of the posts
 

alex2792

macrumors 65816
Jun 13, 2009
1,126
2,973
I think iPad is better for moms due to its simplicity. But Surface Pro is a far and away better device overall.
 

Farrellcollie

macrumors 6502a
Apr 23, 2011
704
364
I have both and use the surface pro for office/pc things and the ipad for quick emails or watching things or drawing. But I suggest asking your mother about her needs and wants or taking her to look at both of them and getting her input as to form and how the input devices feel to her. My father is 79 and can still make decisions like this for himself. I would not presume that just because someone is not an electronic/computer enthusiast that they will not be capable of rational thought concerning which device they might enjoy more.
 
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DaniJoy

macrumors 6502
Nov 19, 2015
394
333
California
Lol, I draw For a living and I do it digitally... Not sure why my opinion and experience is snarky, no offense intended.

But I still use traditional media weekly at figure drawing sessions because it reenforces drawing fundamentals. Argue all u want about subjectivity in art, but good work gets rewarded because it's good. Taking the easy way out only cheats yourself.

When I say digital art all looks the same, I mean the software brush engines gives brush strokes a homogenous effect. Less so on desktop software due to more complex brush engines. U can almost always tell digital art, but of course there are exeptions.

Undo can kill all your happy accidents. Embrace ruined drawing, years later upon reflection u may see magic u missed at the time.

Go to any art school, and they teach u how to draw with traditional media. They don't hand students iPads ......it would create bad habits
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,885
8,056
Lol, I draw For a living and I do it digitally... Not sure why my opinion and experience is snarky, no offense intended.

But I still use traditional media weekly at figure drawing sessions because it reenforces drawing fundamentals. Argue all u want about subjectivity in art, but good work gets rewarded because it's good. Taking the easy way out only cheats yourself.

When I say digital art all looks the same, I mean the software brush engines gives brush strokes a homogenous effect. Less so on desktop software due to more complex brush engines. U can almost always tell digital art, but of course there are exeptions.

Undo can kill all your happy accidents. Embrace ruined drawing, years later upon reflection u may see magic u missed at the time.

Go to any art school, and they teach u how to draw with traditional media. They don't hand students iPads ......it would create bad habits

You remind me of my piano teachers who insisted that their students never play electronic keyboards because it'll ruin their technique. Which is true enough, if your goal is to be a classical pianist. But I'm sure all the electronic keyboardists who are making their living (or just enjoying playing as a hobby) on their electronic keyboards are doing just fine.

I think it's good to acknowledge that traditional drawing techiniques do have their advantages and good points. But digital drawing is its own medium, and I think we'll be seeing great artwork coming from this medium in the future.
 
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Capt T

macrumors 6502a
Mar 20, 2010
971
252
Looking to get my Mom a iPad Pro or Surface for drawing. Which one is the best for this?


I think you should take her to check out both of them if possible. See which one she seems to like better. It really comes down to personal choice
 
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alex2792

macrumors 65816
Jun 13, 2009
1,126
2,973
If you want to do any kind of productivity then get a SP4, if you want to look hip while watching cat videos get an iPad.
 
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rowspaxe

macrumors 68020
Jan 29, 2010
2,214
1,009
Go to any art school, and they teach u how to draw with traditional media. They don't hand students iPads ......it would create bad habits

If you want to see a lot of artwork that all looks the same, go to a fine art drawing class! I have noted fine art classes tend to be experiencial with an empahasis on experimenting with media. So much so that if i see a fine arts student doing "fine" art--I consider a triumph of talent over instruction. Commercial art is largely genre based. The conformity you see has less to do with technology than rule based product looks: anime, fashion, comics, industrial design, etc. I would not encourage a commercial design student to neglect tablets and software in favor of inks and markers.
 

lemonviking

macrumors newbie
Sep 18, 2013
28
14
Get an ipad pro, embrace the new future of computing. I have found it really enjoyable to find a new work flow since getting the 9.7 with the ASK and apple pencil. My macbook pro and air is rarely used.
 

alex2792

macrumors 65816
Jun 13, 2009
1,126
2,973
Get an ipad pro, embrace the new future of computing. I have found it really enjoyable to find a new work flow since getting the 9.7 with the ASK and apple pencil. My macbook pro and air is rarely used.

No offense, but I'm pretty sure that no file system access, no setting default apps, no ability to download files with Safari and limited inter-app data sharing isn't the "future of computing".
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,885
8,056
No offense, but I'm pretty sure that no file system access, no setting default apps, no ability to download files with Safari and limited inter-app data sharing isn't the "future of computing".

I download files from Safari on the iPad all the time. It's not ideal, because there's no download progress indicator, but the function is there.
 
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jamesrick80

macrumors 68030
Sep 12, 2014
2,665
2,218
Get an ipad pro, embrace the new future of computing. I have found it really enjoyable to find a new work flow since getting the 9.7 with the ASK and apple pencil. My macbook pro and air is rarely used.

Lol at the future of computing with an iPad ...I believe chrome OS is the future of computing....it won't be missing much once we add android apps...more developer support will be coming as well and everyone gets updates unlike android so no one can complain about the update system. It has mouse support, external storage support, file manager, hdmi support etc...sounds much better for the future to me.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,298
If she needs pro tools like full Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. then something like Surface Pro, Cintiq, etc. otherwise anything will do. A Galaxy Note phone if she wants something with her all the time or Galaxy Note tablet if she wants to doodle on a budget before upgrading to higher end tool. If looking at iPod Pro I'd wait for 2nd gen for Apple to fix the battery life and charging design defects.
 

Capt T

macrumors 6502a
Mar 20, 2010
971
252
I download files from Safari on the iPad all the time. It's not ideal, because there's no download progress indicator, but the function is there.


Same here. I get links to files for work all the time, that open safari, load the page with the file, and I download to the app I want. It is really quite simple.
 

lemonviking

macrumors newbie
Sep 18, 2013
28
14
No offense, but I'm pretty sure that no file system access, no setting default apps, no ability to download files with Safari and limited inter-app data sharing isn't the "future of computing".
Lol at the future of computing with an iPad ...I believe chrome OS is the future of computing....it won't be missing much once we add android apps...more developer support will be coming as well and everyone gets updates unlike android so no one can complain about the update system. It has mouse support, external storage support, file manager, hdmi support etc...sounds much better for the future to me.

So what you want is a laptop? Then you are already in the future.
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Same here. I get links to files for work all the time, that open safari, load the page with the file, and I download to the app I want. It is really quite simple.
Readdle Document app is great if you want a file system on ipad.
 
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gotluck

macrumors 603
Dec 8, 2011
5,717
1,260
East Central Florida
i debated surface pro heavily but went for xps 13 laptop for the battery life (I need the keyboard for productivity anyway)

and keep using my ipad for tablet use for battery life and experience

surface is a great jack of all trades, but battery isnt there yet for me (equivalent sp4 costs as much as my xps 13 nontouch + ipad combo)

ipad pro has not excited me much, I dont need/want to draw and I dont want a hardware keyboard on my tablet. Hope they keep the ipad mini line alive
 

AFEPPL

macrumors 68030
Sep 30, 2014
2,644
1,571
England
but comments like "Get an ipad pro, embrace the new future of computing. I have found it really enjoyable to find a new work flow since getting the 9.7 with the ASK and apple pencil. My macbook pro and air is rarely used." are ok?

is it not personal workflows, so I'm sure the productivity comment is completely true for some.
Its just users defending their purchases.
 

jamesrick80

macrumors 68030
Sep 12, 2014
2,665
2,218
So what you want is a laptop? Then you are already in the future.
[doublepost=1466101370][/doublepost]
Readdle Document app is great if you want a file system on ipad.

Actually a hybrid tablet convertible similar to surface pro 4 would be nice for a chromebook with android apps......so no i dont want a laptop but its functionality would be nice.....i have plenty of laptops and a couple chromebooks....
 
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