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As far as heat goes, I've noticed that Dells seem to put out more heat. So I'm not if you are doing a fair comparison.

As far as complaints go, angry people complain. They will always appear to be a larger group than they really are simply because happy people don't say much. In general, Apple hard is consider to be better quality than most other equivalent hardware.
 
I especially agree with your last line. I don't know if it's possible to do something radical to make computers run cooler. Not my area of expertise. But I can tell you that I'd sure rather see efforts in that arena instead of continually shrinking the form factor for aesthetic purposes. I mean, let's be real - if you are going to use your computers for really demanding work, is a slim form factor really the best thing? Either the fans are going to have to run harder or you're going to have more heat buildup within the chassis.

Dells do run hot. I have a relative who has a Dell Latitude and it gets hot on the bottom to the point where even a few minutes on your lap leaves your legs with an uncomfortable feeling. Duly noted on the general idea of not using them on your lap but still. With all of our expertise in computers, can we really not find a way to get them to run cooler?

hmm interesting reading , but all my macs work flawlessly
ok all are pre intel
a mac mini g4 1.42 , 2 eMac g4 1.42 , 2 imac g3 600/700
,a powermac 5500/275 and a TAM with sonnet crescendo g3 upgrade (did cost me more then the brandnew iMac 27" but was stored in his box since 1999 because the owner bought a iMac g3 back then :), and they all do what they are suppose to do all day long without overheating :p

so for me a modern computer just means problems ..so i stay away from them


but you have to be fair , apple just builds what the customer wants , the customer wants a slim slimmer slimmest iMac , but on the other hand a fast faster fastest processor , but the customer doesn't want to see ventilation holes in the back of the iMac , so apple builds exactly to customers specification ... then the customer complains about heat :confused:
 
When comparing the small form desktops, compare the Mac Mini to the Dell Zino. There are 155+ pages over at the HD AVS forum about Dell Zinos and all the problems people are having with them. Small form machines always seem to have an inordinate number of issues. The Dell Zinos seem to be a nightmare of overheating and failures right now.

I have two Mac laptops and love them both to pieces. One is 6+ years old and the other is 2+ years old. Will never buy anything but Mac laptops. My next desktop will be a Mac Mini....just waiting for an update. My days of buying Dell desktops is over. We buy nothing but Dells at the office and their reliability/build quality has gone WAY down hill in recent years!
 
Not familiar with the Zino but I definitely concur on the decline in their build quality. I have a sister who has an older white macbook and I like it. If the newer ones were like it, I might consider it.

When comparing the small form desktops, compare the Mac Mini to the Dell Zino. There are 155+ pages over at the HD AVS forum about Dell Zinos and all the problems people are having with them. Small form machines always seem to have an inordinate number of issues. The Dell Zinos seem to be a nightmare of overheating and failures right now.

I have two Mac laptops and love them both to pieces. One is 6+ years old and the other is 2+ years old. Will never buy anything but Mac laptops. My next desktop will be a Mac Mini....just waiting for an update. My days of buying Dell desktops is over. We buy nothing but Dells at the office and their reliability/build quality has gone WAY down hill in recent years!
 
OSX is the difference

..... as an ex mac user who switched to windows because of business since late 90's and just came back to osx. My response is OSX! When you compare the interaction of OSX to windows its not close..... all the hardware issues you mentioned may be a fair comparison but with what- Dell? IBM? They have problems and I disagree on apple to apple cost(no pun intended)

So last year, I purchased a Mac Mini as a way to get my feet wet with Apple beyond the iPhone (to which I switched from a Blackberry). Prior to this, I'd been a lifelong PC user with no major problems to speak of. I didn't do rampant downloads, kept a firewall and virus protection on, etc. I did have a Dell die on me, but that wasn't a huge deal.

I'm not trying to start a war of words here with any fan boys; instead, these are just some thoughts I've had after using their products for a year.

1. From a software perspective, I like their products. OS X is good, although I must give a thumbs down, based on my experience, to Snow Leopard. I would repeatedly lose my Internet connection sporadically and without warning. Once I wiped my hard drive and returned the computer to the original state, no problems. So aside from that, I like their software.

2. Hardware is another issue. I have been fortunate so far that my Mini has worked. I had a kernel panic once but nothing since then. What I don't like about their hardware when compared to my PC: First, the slot-loading disc drives. Like many, I have experienced scratched discs. It is inconceivable to me that they let this go on for how many years and still no design fix? Unacceptable. Second, presumably because their form factors are so small, all of my discs eject hot to the touch. In my PC, this rarely happens. I wonder if this can degrade the quality of discs over time. No proof on that, just curiosity.

3. Heat buildup. Why is it that Apple products run so hot? Even my iPhone will get scary hot. I once had it in an open-top shirt pocket streaming music and when I took it out, I was scared that the battery might blow because it was so hot. No case on it either, so I wonder what happens when you stream music and have a case. Note, this was only streaming for 10-15 minutes when it happened.

I once considered an Imac and a Macbook until I saw how hot they get. Suffice it to say, I was shocked that watching ten minutes of a video on Hulu in the Apple store would make the bottom of a notebook uncomfortably hot to touch. If that happens on Hulu video, it doesn't bode well for what I can expect when compiling programs. I even once saw someone who wrote on Apple's support boards that she put a fan behind her computer to cool it down. Perhaps that is the ultimate example of product loyalty.

Even my little Nano gets way too hot when it is charging. I have a habit of only letting it charge for ten minutes or so because I don't trust it.

4. Design: I love the way my Mini looks sitting on my desk. But to go back to my comment earlier on the Macbook, the other reason besides heat that I passed is when they enclosed the batteries. It is unacceptable to me to have to haul my laptop into a store and hand over all my financial data and proprietary work to some "geniuses" and trust that everything will be ok. I am skilled enough with computers that I can swap my own laptop battery and I fiercely resent Apple telling me that I am not allowed to do that.

5. Quality control: Sadly, here, bad marks too. After ruling out the Macbooks because of heat and battery enclosure, I considered the 27 " imacs when they came out. Then I started to see rampant stories of screen issues, flash issues, etc. How can a company such as Apple that prides themselves on everything "just working" allow such garbage to happen? It's no small feat for anyone to pack up an imac and haul it back to your local mall to get it fixed. I realize the majority of them may be fine but there are enough issues that I don't trust it.

One disappointment I've had with quality relates to the power cord on the iphone. I've already had one separate at the ends from being coiled up in my pocket. So one day I compared the thickness/design at the joints of the iphone power cord and my Blackberry power cord (the latter of which never had any issues). Guess what? The Berry's power cord is thicker and has much more reinforcement at the joints. The iphone cost double what the Berry cost, so can I get you, Apple, to give up a few pennies of margin and make a power cord that can hold up to being coiled up?

6. Flash and headphones, etc: I am not going to start a war on flash. Some like it, some hate it. But it bothers me when my mini's browsers often crash when playing a flash application but my PC handles it just fine. I read Steve's note on flash, wherein, among other things, he blamed it for most of the mac crashes. Here's a news flash (pun intended): maybe it's not flash, maybe it's your computers that need work to be able to run it without crashing. Again, my PC, running Windows 7, is just fine when playing flash videos.

Also, why is it that a $40 pair of Apple's headphones have a cord that is 6 " shorter than a $10 pair that I picked up from CVS? I do not want to sit with my desktop in my lap when I need to use my headphones.

I put all this out there to see if others have had similar thoughts, not to get in a childish tug-of-war on if PC's or macs are better. PC's have issues too and I've experienced some of those. In my experience, neither one wins in a landslide, but for me, the advantage is PC, however slightly, for now. My PC seems more reliable, runs cooler, doesn't scratch my CD's, plays Flash, and can do more. I hope Apple can gets its act together because one year in, my thoughts can simply be summed up as "room for improvement."
 
I think what surprises me the most is that I thought going into the purchase that after a year with Apple, I'd be 100% convinced of its superiority but alas, I'm not. I'll still continue to use my mini but probably not exclusively.

I am aware that they still sell the white macbooks but as someone in business, that would not work for me. Also, I won't buy any laptop with a sealed in battery.
 
as a mostly ipod/iphone user with an old mac mini, i'll probably buy a Mac for my next computer. I personally prefer Windows 7 over OS X but Apple has a better customer experience.

my ipod and iphone both had to be exchanged and both times i was in an out in less than 30 minutes. buying something from best buy you would be waiting for weeks while they "fix it".

the price of Mac's is competitive to PC's. if you price it out using Dell/HP and do an apples to apples comparison then it's very competitive. Apple just concentrates on different features and specs than Dell/HP.

i have a HP laptop my employer bought me for $1500 that had a 3 year warranty. LCD broke and i sent it in. they said it was my fault even though there was no physical damage to it and charged my employer $500 to replace it. 18 months later the "new" LCD is going bad as well. if this was a Macbook i'd have it replaced by Apple. i like HP servers and the support for those is great, but i will never buy another HP PC again. Apple for me.

check out the best buy geek squad forums and compare to Apple forums. the geek squad and Dell ones are all people saying how bad they are and they will never buy from them again.

PC's have crapware, Mac's don't. every consumer PC i've seen comes pre-loaded with 20 different security programs that flash like a Christmas tree to buy it. they are impossible to get rid of without completely wiping the hard drive and reinstalling windows. lately i've seen people bring computers they bought from best buy to our helpdesk to get the VPN software installed. there is actually a crazy best buy software updater program on there. lesson is don't ever buy a computer from best buy.

My HP and Dell laptops all get hot enough to burn my thighs. same with almost every laptop. my HP will even shut down sometimes. usually i have to take it apart and clean the dust out of the fan to make it better.

never had a problem with flash crashing on me, but it's a hog on windows as well. visit any flash website on my laptop and the fan turns on. it's like it's coded in there to turn the fan on.

back to customer support. if your mac breaks you take it to the apple store and you're usually out in less than an hour. if your dell/hp breaks you call support, spend 3 hours on hold, then 3 hours going through the script of the CSR person who barely speaks english and is almost impossible to understand. and they will never approve any fix until the diagnostics software says it's OK. one time 10 years ago it took me 2 days to get dell to replace a motherboard because the NIC broke and their diagnostic tests didn't pick it up.

Yes Apple is beta testing the 27" iMac's with their customers and the panel manufacturer. it's modern technology. my HP servers at work running Windows 2003 x64 took 2 years of firmware and driver updates to become completely stable. HP has had some crazy firmware issues on their servers. every nvidia and AMD graphics driver release has a long list of release notes of outstanding issues. OS X and Windows 7 are about the same size of the code base and it's impossible to release it without bugs. In my case Windows 7 doesn't seem to like any optical drive older than a year.

don't really care about the sealed batteries in Macbooks. they really do last 7-10 hours. my HP laptop was 3 hours new and now almost 3 years later it's about an hour. Mac's keep their value pretty well so just buy a new Mac and let one of the idiots pay an insane amount of money for a used one buy yours.
 
Today I moved every closer to being done w/ Apple. I took my charger and cord out of my pocket at work and YET AGAIN the power cord has separated at the joint. In my mind, this is clearly a defect. My old Blackberry charger, used and abused, still works to this day. When I look at every other peripheral device I have, the area around where the cable joins to the USB plug is reinforced. Except for ALL of my Apple cables. My deep suspicion is that they are just doing that to save money and bump up their margins ever so slightly. The design of that is junk. So now I am going to have to find a third party mfr (I think AT&T sells one) that is built the way it should be. Even after spending $200 on my phone, I am going to have to spend another $30 on a cable because Apple, in their infinite wisdom, can't design a damned cable that won't separate. All of their plugs are cheap. I'm sure people will write and say how their have been perfect and haven't separated - I don't care - mine has twice and that is enough for me. Couped w/ AT&T's crappy service, I am strongly considering getting a Google phone when this contract is up. I won't be waiting to multitask, or be forced to upgrade to a new phone because my phone won't support multitasking. I can see through Apple's clever marketing game and I've had enough. I had every intention of staying with this company for a long time but they can kiss my ***. Apple is arrogant enough to mock PC's (not entirely unfounded) but then they can't focus enough on details to make a power cord that doesn't separate...or like I wrote in my initial post, round the entrance to the disc drive such that you don't have to hold your disc perfectly level to avoid scratches.

Computer experiences are personal. There are plenty of folks who have had no problems, or minor ones with their PC. Plenty who have had major problems. Same goes for Apple. It's how brand loyalty is gained or lost. What I will say about PC's is that now, it is easy to get onsite warranty coverage - Lenovo offers it, for example. You are right about Geek Squad, and hauling your pc into Best Buy - that is a freaking waste of time. But to me, an onsite warranty beats boxing up a computer (no small feat for an imac or pro) and hauling it down to a damn mall to hand it over to a "genius" who may or may not be able to fix it. I've never heard personally of an hour wait time to get a mac fixed in the store. There are plenty of postings about people who have had bad experiences with the geniuses. Again, it's personal. Some have had no issues, others have had plenty. But as someone who has the know how to take apart a computer and replace the hard drive, for example, I'll continue buying products whose manufacturers don't design so that I can't do that.

Everything about Apple is locking you into them. Got a problem with your computer (their best-selling imac?) - gotta haul it in because taking it apart is beyond most people and can even void your warranty. Want to program on the iphone? The technical press, even some of their sites and folks who are pro-Apple are ripping their new requirements. I don't know whether or not the requirements are good or bad, all I know is that it's more restrictions.

I'm done.
 
I settled on a Lenovo Thinkpad T410 for a notebook. I can replace the battery myself, the extended battery actually gets 9-10 hours of usage, and I don't have to worry about the case cracking should the battery expand.

That is actually one thing I didn't list in my "essay" (LOL). Years ago when I was in school, I saw a girl who had a white macbook. The case was split open on the side and she said it happened from the case expanding, not from a drop (for what it's worth, I didn't see scuff marks that would indicate a drop).

Another thing I'd add is some disappointment that the imac and pro's don't have enough USB plugs. My Dell has more plugs than my Mini. Right now, with phone, printer, mouse, and keyboard, I only have one left. For spending double/triple what the mini cost, I feel I should have more USB plugins. Cough up some money to pay licensing fees and add em!

So I'm excited about the Lenovo. I've had excellent luck with Windows 7 so far.

You are right that all computers have the potential to have issues. I just don't trust the imacs right now. Maybe on the next refresh they will be better.

As far as noise, I definitely appreciate the fact that macs run quiet. However, I'd be willing to tolerate some fan noise if I could be more confident that heat was not building up. Heat buildup causes electronic parts to fail sooner than they would in the absence of heat building up.

Somebody wrote about their pricing. I'm not sure on that one. I will end up paying about $900 for my Lenovo. 3 gb ram, 320 gig hard drive, etc. 14" screen. So I'm not sure if they're overpriced or not.





I understand you're concerns about the imac, the 2008s had probs also, been their done that... I would buy a defective imac long before i'd buy a pc directly from the chinese government.
 
Lenovo, especially Thinkpad series is brilliant! In my opinion, it's the only PC manufacturer which laptops are comparable to Apple's, in terms of quality and power&battery. I've never heard anything bad about Lenovo, their support is great and Thinkpads have been the same for years but why to change something which works?

Main reason I switched was Vista, it was awful! Now that W7 is out, I would probably build a PC and buy a MacBook, for the same money I paid for my iMac.

Congrats on your Lenovo, it indeed is great and MUCH better than those cheapish lappys, it's worth the extra




.....or based on IBM service and qt control.
 
I'm curious to know what you LIKE about Macs --i.e what keeps you around? I'm shocked at all the people praising Lenovo here. Before Lenovo came and bought thinkpad from IBM or whatever, thinkpads were great, they were built solid, had great screens and good support. Then the restructuring happened, prices came down and the only thing left of the original thinkpads is their ugly looks. Nothing about them is the same though. I switched over from the windows side of things and never looked back. Most of it was the communication between the numerous devices I own. In the windows world it felt like I had a phone, a laptop and a desktop. Whereas here everything is so easy to sync up and everything looks so similar that it's more like one computer that is just extended for different uses- hard to explain perhaps.

I don't understand the optical drive issue either. Do you have tremors or something, or why is it that you cannot insert a cd/DVD without it scraping against the hard metallic part. I love the optical drives because they are so invisible, like they're not even there.

Resale value is key. Macs hold value amazingly unlike PCs and I think last for a very long time. Heat seems to scare you quite a bit and I understand that electronic components can fail when exposed to extreme levels of heat, but I trust apple has done the tests for this and the stats speak for themselves. People are still using PowerBooks and iBooks as their main computers. Ive had 4 iMacs and they've all lasted long times even though you're right, the back gets very hot. I think a lot of the problem here is paranoia: paranoid that you may scratch your discs on the metal, leading you to scratch your discs. Paranoid that the heat will ruin your equipment, causing you to degrade your experience. As others have said, the issues with the iMacs was a) limited to a subset of people and b) resolved because these people brought it to the attention of all the blogs and forums on the internet because it is apple.

No computer is without faults and I used to hate when my friend would claim that his mac always ran flawlessly and never slowed down or had any issues (when I was a windows user) but it is all the little things that go into making the hardware (battery indicator on laptops, illuminated keyboard when no one else had them, 10hr battery life, quick and easy repairs/replacements at genius bar, glass trackpad etc) and software (integration between different first-party applications on OS, syncing between iPad, iPhone and computer, minimalistic UI design, time machine, no worrying about viruses or spyware) that make you put aside those flaws in your mind. Whereas on the windows side I don't see these little touches that tell me that msft is thinking about me, the enduser.
 
You are right all computer have issues, my 24in imac is about to get it's 4th hd! in less that 2 years! I had the 320 gig hd replaced last month with the same size and this replacement is **** already. Buzzing and clicking.
 
Haha on tremors. No, I don't have any tremors. But I do feel like I have to be more careful than I do on my pc with the dvd's and cds.

As for the heat, I don't feel like I am overreacting on that. There are more posts than I've ever seen with people who are very concerned about the heat on their imacs. Like I mentioned earlier, I think, one girl even put a fan behind her mini to attempt to control the heat (not sure if that's gonna work lol). My long complaint about the latest iphone charger cable that separated just kind of underscores my issues here - it feels like I have to baby my apple products more than other electronics items I own. There are plenty of complaints about macbooks getting cracked screens because there is no buffer zone around the screen like on a Lenovo. I have no doubts that if I banged my Lenovo, it would not bust the screen but I'd have real concerns that a similar bang would crack a macbook. I am not hard by any standard on electronics items but it is a risk I'm not personally willing to take, esp since the macbook costs double what my Lenovo cost.

I can see scratches on dvds that did not exist before I watched them on my mac. Like I said before, computer experiences are personal and as expected, lots of people said that they have had no problems with scratched discs. Yet there are plenty of postings on the 'net where people did have issues. The fact is the risk is there, the edges are sharp, yet they do nothing to fix them. Just like my cable - plenty of folks have had cables separate, plenty have not - but the risk is there and they have done nothing to fix them.

Perhaps it would have been better to post nothing. I dunno. The missive on the cable happened at the end of a horrible day and it was the final straw for that day. No apologies for that. I will purchase a Belkin cable that is built better. All I can say is that my enthusiasm for some of their products has waned. I put my mini in the closet and will continue to use Win 7 for awhile.

I will agree with you on the concerns about buying a computer from a company whose majority shareholder is the Chinese government. I don't particularly care for that. But for now, it beats the garbage that Dell puts out (not a lot of experience with HP notebooks).

I'm curious to know what you LIKE about Macs --i.e what keeps you around? I'm shocked at all the people praising Lenovo here. Before Lenovo came and bought thinkpad from IBM or whatever, thinkpads were great, they were built solid, had great screens and good support. Then the restructuring happened, prices came down and the only thing left of the original thinkpads is their ugly looks. Nothing about them is the same though. I switched over from the windows side of things and never looked back. Most of it was the communication between the numerous devices I own. In the windows world it felt like I had a phone, a laptop and a desktop. Whereas here everything is so easy to sync up and everything looks so similar that it's more like one computer that is just extended for different uses- hard to explain perhaps.

I don't understand the optical drive issue either. Do you have tremors or something, or why is it that you cannot insert a cd/DVD without it scraping against the hard metallic part. I love the optical drives because they are so invisible, like they're not even there.

Resale value is key. Macs hold value amazingly unlike PCs and I think last for a very long time. Heat seems to scare you quite a bit and I understand that electronic components can fail when exposed to extreme levels of heat, but I trust apple has done the tests for this and the stats speak for themselves. People are still using PowerBooks and iBooks as their main computers. Ive had 4 iMacs and they've all lasted long times even though you're right, the back gets very hot. I think a lot of the problem here is paranoia: paranoid that you may scratch your discs on the metal, leading you to scratch your discs. Paranoid that the heat will ruin your equipment, causing you to degrade your experience. As others have said, the issues with the iMacs was a) limited to a subset of people and b) resolved because these people brought it to the attention of all the blogs and forums on the internet because it is apple.

No computer is without faults and I used to hate when my friend would claim that his mac always ran flawlessly and never slowed down or had any issues (when I was a windows user) but it is all the little things that go into making the hardware (battery indicator on laptops, illuminated keyboard when no one else had them, 10hr battery life, quick and easy repairs/replacements at genius bar, glass trackpad etc) and software (integration between different first-party applications on OS, syncing between iPad, iPhone and computer, minimalistic UI design, time machine, no worrying about viruses or spyware) that make you put aside those flaws in your mind. Whereas on the windows side I don't see these little touches that tell me that msft is thinking about me, the enduser.
 
I can see scratches on dvds that did not exist before I watched them on my mac. Like I said before, computer experiences are personal and as expected, lots of people said that they have had no problems with scratched discs. Yet there are plenty of postings on the 'net where people did have issues. The fact is the risk is there, the edges are sharp, yet they do nothing to fix them. Just like my cable - plenty of folks have had cables separate, plenty have not - but the risk is there and they have done nothing to fix them.

I just want to weigh on the slot drive DVD/CD drive. They suck! Regardless of manufacturer. I'm the IT gal at the office, and I'm YET to see a decent slot drive. I've seen problems with SONY, with Gateway, with Apple, and the list goes on and on. Heck, I own two Macs with slot drives, and I went out and bought a very nice LACIE external, as I don't want to deal with the crap that goes with slot drives. I don't care who the computer manufacturer is, I loathe the slot drive. I think it's a flawed design (and I welcome criticism there, it's just been my experience).
 
Yea the superdrive is noisy and clunky. Apple has put all of it's efforts into mobile and cloud base tech and the mac has suffer due to this internal shift.
 
Engadget had a story today how there are reports of problems with HP envy laptops. You call HP and they tell you to send it in to be reimaged. But if they find nothing wrong they charge you $90.

Great support for a machine that costs as much as a mac.
 
The Difference Is:

THE OPERATING SYSTEM!
:apple: Apple's OS is integrated to the hardware which they manufacture to specifications to maximize the performance of their OS and together they work seamlessly which is brilliant.
I can not believe you are really trying to make sense of comparing a DOS based operating system to Apple's OS which is where microsoft originally stole ALL of their ideas for their first version of windows. Which was still a DOS code based OS when it was released and the roots of Windows 7 still is!
Apple is many years ahead of Microsofts Research with its vision and ideas of a perfect platform and architecture. GOOD LUCK with your DOS OS! Its a joke to compare the two....... APPLE- WHERE ALL VISIONARY TECHNOLOGY IDEAS ARE CREATED! Compare Microsoft's ingenuity of their attempt to Apples ipod-ipad!:apple:
 
can't stop laughing, this place reminds me of glocktalk , the fanbois VS. the realists...
its a computer people!
its no worse and no better than any other properly designed system in its price range...
(ok, ok, i'll concede less need for an AV package)
my HP and my IMAC both work now...
just be glad they aren't AI, you would all get an earfull...
 
And you sent your email from your sub-consciousness and thoughts? of course its only a "computer" but the debate is based on which is a better and productive tool to get the job done. we are not comparing which is more important computers versus medicine= BTW medical devices do get better because of technology.... visit a car repair garage- they use diagnostics! it comes from computers...
can't stop laughing, this place reminds me of glocktalk , the fanbois VS. the realists...
its a computer people!
its no worse and no better than any other properly designed system in its price range...
(ok, ok, i'll concede less need for an AV package)
my HP and my IMAC both work now...
just be glad they aren't AI, you would all get an earfull...
 
The only point I felt compelled to reply to was the one regarding Flash.

As you said, not to begin a flame war over the topic, but it's not Apple's computers that need optimising to work with Flash, as you suggested.

Flash is a resource/system hog on OS X, and when my wife used to play FarmVille on Facebook, my iMac would heat up worryingly fast.

It's simply not optimised for the Mac.

Edit: I've just noticed this is the same bloke who posted a separate thread in the iPhone section regarding the iPhone charge cable (as well as posting it in this thread), here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/919857/

Regarding the iPhone cable, as I said before in your thread, if the phone is in warranty, take it back and they'll replace the cable free of charge.

Regarding your issues with the Mac, they're certainly minor and do lean towards awkward nitpicking. Sorry!
 
I once considered an Imac and a Macbook until I saw how hot they get. Suffice it to say, I was shocked that watching ten minutes of a video on Hulu in the Apple store would make the bottom of a notebook uncomfortably hot to touch. If that happens on Hulu video, it doesn't bode well for what I can expect when compiling programs. I even once saw someone who wrote on Apple's support boards that she put a fan behind her computer to cool it down. Perhaps that is the ultimate example of product loyalty.

...

6. Flash and headphones, etc: I am not going to start a war on flash. Some like it, some hate it. But it bothers me when my mini's browsers often crash when playing a flash application but my PC handles it just fine. I read Steve's note on flash, wherein, among other things, he blamed it for most of the mac crashes. Here's a news flash (pun intended): maybe it's not flash, maybe it's your computers that need work to be able to run it without crashing. Again, my PC, running Windows 7, is just fine when playing flash videos.

It is Flash. Flash for Mac- and Linux as well, IIRC- is notorious for being very badly coded and runs very badly.

I can play a 1080p video on my Mac and it takes less CPU power than YouTube. (Heck, I've been able to run 3-4 1080p videos at the same time without issue).

Flash for Mac is very badly designed and probably doesn't take that much less CPU power than compiling. xD

... it seems pretty obvious to me that its not flash itself... i mean if ALL the pc's ive ever used had no issues running flash... even 5 year old machines... then why is it that a brand new, $2k+ apple machine overheats?

FLash for Mac and Flash for Windows are not the same product. The Mac version is a shoddy port.
Also, the OP is talking about his $500 apple machine overheating, not $2k.
 
So last year, I purchased a Mac Mini as a way to get my feet wet with Apple .... "room for improvement."

I'm not going to get into a debate about whether Apple's strategy is the right one, or not... but it may helpful to just point out a couple of things.

In my opinion.... humble or not....

Apple is not about technology, or software. It is about the complete experience of getting things done. Apple tailors their hardware and software to make getting the tasks that the vast majority of people want to do, personally and at work. Apple wants that experience to be easy, seamless, and to make you productive. They may not always get it right, but that is Apple's aim. If you the tasks that you do fit into the world that Apple has envisioned, then you will likely be happy with what Apple offers. And if your wishes and desires are not in that world, then Apple products are going to frustrate you, and no amount of complaining is going to help. Apple likes their products to dominate niche markets. They don't want their products to be all things to all people (i.e. Apple products will not do everything, but what they do they do very well).

Apple's notebooks are not laptops - even says so in the documentation. They are "portables", and using them in your lap is discouraged by Apple. They know their machines get hot on the bottom - it's part of the design. And stats say that Apple's decision is a good one since the vast majority of people polled by Consumers Report, etc are happy with the quality of their Macs. You may not like it, and - Apple doesn't care whether you do or not.... enough other people like their laptops.

Apple, I've observed, has started pushing a whole different technological barrier lately. I believe that they have decided that their portables are fast enough and powerful enough to do the vast majority of things that people use the for. Therefore, we are going to see the "power" of the Macs fall behind their PC counterparts. Where we are going to big improvements, IMHO, is with battery technology and GPUs. Also more cores in the CPU, though with slowish clock speeds. Sealed batteries is the start of the battery changeover. (I can't tell you that handing over all your info to an Apple Genius is a good thing, and I think Apple is going to have to address this at some point. However, at the moment, your information is already vulnerable every time that portable is out of your sight, or outside your home.) I think we are going to start seeing notebooks that can go 12, 18, 24 hours at a time on a single charge ... and will then charge back up in a fraction of the time it now takes. If you don't believe me, just look at the battery stats of the last few years for Apple's portables and draw a line on a graph that extends that line a year or 3 into the future. My first G4 iBook was amazing when I could squeeze out 4 hours on the battery. Now they are advertizing more than double that - and I would probably get 3 to 5 times more time if used the same way as I did the iBook.

This is long enough already.

Except that I have never had a CD scratched by the slot loader.... And Apple is notorious for putting out less than stellar 1st generation products (the new iMacs.) Much as I appreciate what Apple does, I would never buy a 1st generation Apple product. Apple is not perfect, but when they get it right - they get it very very right.

That is probably about 7 cents worth... I must be avoiding work, eh?
 
flash, can be fixed.

In regards to the flash issue I bought the 2010 MBP refresh everything worked perfectly except for flash. This really upset me because I switched from a PC that I used for a long long time and although it didn't work perfectly it did not have any serious problems. Then at the same time I had a new MBP and flash from youtube would freeze about 20% of the time when maximizing and minimizing.

I was really bothered by this but one of my friends and someone at the apple store said to download the newest version of flash from adobe. I did that and my computer has not froze once since.

I had similar feelings in my head initially. I kept saying "this is a new computer" it should work and I thought for a second that this was a downside of apple but after the night and day difference of downloading the flash update I realized that it probably has much to do with adobe having bad support. If my only issue was a software update from adobe it means that this ongoing problem could have been fixed a long time ago and there is a possibility that they did not maximize the compatibility of their product on a popular platform (mac).
 
I agree with you about a few things. But it really doesn't matter to me if my Mac Mini gets hot, Because almost every computer besides Desktops get hot. Every laptop gets hot. So yeah, It's better than a Laptop because i don't feel the hotness on my hands.
 
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