Spaces has suddenly started making perfect sense

[netnothing]

Just to clarify… I don't like minimizing windows, and that's the whole point. I like hiding/showing whole applications. Perhaps you got what I was saying and just used the wrong words. Just wanted to clarify.

Yes, I know what Spaces does and I've tried to like it. I've started using it a few times but always found it too restrictive. There are plenty of times I want to have different app windows side by side, or whatever. I can't remember all the situations that lead to frustration in Spaces, but I kept coming back to good ol' Hide/Show. Like you say though, to each his own.



I'm glad too. I'm hoping it'll be the best of both worlds.

NO. You must like it my way!

No, I get your point now. Hiding windows and apps in OS X is nice. I did a lot of work in Linux using their virtual desktops, so when Leopard got spaces, I was happy.

-Kevin

 

[mrblack927]

Yeah except some of us have already been using spaces for years in 10.5 an 10.6 and now that's being taken away. The "grid view" layout was a million times easier to navigate than a long horizontal line. And your spaces didn't change and move around on their own, further making it difficult to work efficiently.

Likely a bug. I don't think Apple meant for that to happen.

It's not a bug. The behavior is exactly the same as how apps in the "multitasking bar" are arranged on iOS devices. That is:

• When you open a (full screen) app, it goes to the space immediately to the right of where you are
• If you swipe to the app, it doesn't change the order
• But if you click the app icon from the dock, it not only takes you there but moves it to the space to the immediate right of where you were

So essentially what you end up with is all of your apps ordered from most recent to least recent from left to right. You can't "lock your apps in place" as far as I know. The idea is that you will always have your most used apps closest to you. So instead of the old Snow Leopard style of spaces where you can lay everything out exactly as you want it, Lion tries to do the organizing for you.

 

[celticpride678]

It's not a bug. The behavior is exactly the same as how apps in the "multitasking bar" are arranged on iOS devices. That is:

• When you open a (full screen) app, it goes to the space immediately to the right of where you are
• If you swipe to the app, it doesn't change the order
• But if you click the app icon from the dock, it not only takes you there but moves it to the space to the immediate right of where you were

So essentially what you end up with is all of your apps ordered from most recent to least recent from left to right. You can't "lock your apps in place" as far as I know. The idea is that you will always have your most used apps closest to you. So instead of the old Snow Leopard style of spaces where you can lay everything out exactly as you want it, Lion tries to do the organizing for you.

And you know this, how? Are you helping Apple develop Lion?

 

[mrblack927]

And you know this, how? Are you helping Apple develop Lion?

What do you mean? I'm running the beta right now and that's the behavior that it uses... And yes, I'm a legitimate mac developer, I didn't torrent it if that's what you're implying.

 

[netnothing]

What do you mean? I'm running the beta right now and that's the behavior that it uses... And yes, I'm a legitimate mac developer, I didn't torrent it if that's what you're implying.

I think what he means is how do you KNOW it's the intended behavior. I don't think Apple has told devs to this point that's how spaces is intended to work. You are observing it working that way, but since it's only the initial beta release, things could change....or it could stay the way you are seeing.

Personally, I think when you VIEW your spaces through Mission Control, lining them up in order would seem most logical. But, like you describe, if you are using gestures, then ordering them according to use might make more sense.

-Kevin

 

[mrblack927]

I think what he means is how do you KNOW it's the intended behavior. I don't think Apple has told devs to this point that's how spaces is intended to work. You are observing it working that way, but since it's only the initial beta release, things could change....or it could stay the way you are seeing.

Personally, I think when you VIEW your spaces through Mission Control, lining them up in order would seem most logical. But, like you describe, if you are using gestures, then ordering them according to use might make more sense.

-Kevin

Ohhh I see. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that that's how the final version of spaces will work. I was just trying to clarify that when I said "spaces move around on their own" I didn't mean they randomly change position (ie. a bug) but rather move based on an established set of rules (the way iOS works). I don't know if celticpride678 has the beta or not but if he doesn't I could see how the way I originally described it could sound confusing (like a bug instead of a feature).

I'm well-aware that many things can (and will) change before the final release, and personally (pure speculation) I think that the final version will behave how it does now, but with the added ability to move spaces around from the mission control screen, and lock them in place when you do. It's no secret that Apple has taken most of it's design cues from iOS and for the first beta it looks surprisingly good. I just hope they listen to the devs suggestions and add the flexibility to customize some things before pushing it out the door...

 

[dyn]

But in System Preferences, apps can be on "every space," when everything else is called a desktop now. Shouldn't it say "every desktop?"

It should yes but that may just be a bug. It's quite common that such names are not updated immediately. Naming is somewhere at the bottom of the pile But we could see what celticpride678 wants: let the user name the desktops.

 

[Steve Ballmer]

In my experience, observing how other people use the Mac, the ability to hide apps is the least understood and most under-utilised feature of the GUI. It's so painful to watch users drag windows around so they can see what's underneath, or manually minimise half-a-dozen windows into the Dock, just like they used to do in Windows. (Windows really has trained people how to be super-inneficient!)

It's a shame more Windows users don't seem to know about Ctrl+D or Ctrl+M. Either command lets you minimize every single window open on your system instantly. It's not exactly the same as hiding something in Unix, but it's similar.

And I agree... Too few Mac users know how to hide. I don't even minimize, as it essentially does the same thing as hiding, yet just adds more visual clutter to your Dock.

 

[Thunderbird]

Maybe it's because when you hide app windows (command + option+ H), it won't hide Safari windows. And then to 'unhide' the ones that do disappear, you have to click on each app in the dock one at a time to bring them back. Not much of a shortcut.

 

[*LTD*]

Spaces (or rather, Mission Control) is great.

Fullscreen is great. Viewing PDFs in fullscreen, for example, is a joy.

Combining fullscreen with Mission Control, however, not so great.

I open Safari and make it fullscreen. Good. I choose to open another Safari window and it moves to a different desktop space. Not so good. Even worse, I can't move it into the same space manually. Granted, the answer is to use tabs, but still.

Other than that, desktop spaces don't remember which application opens up (upon login) into which space, etc. So lots of little niggles here and there which will obviously get ironed out as Apple gets closer to perfecting the concept.

Otherwise, unifying Exposé and Spaces and Dashboard is wonderful. Interesting to note that I can still get the old Exposé functionality with separate windows of the same application (when not in fullscreen.) Hmmm . . .

 

[netnothing]

Spaces (or rather, Mission Control) is great.

Fullscreen is great. Viewing PDFs in fullscreen, for example, is a joy.

Combining fullscreen with Mission Control, however, not so great.

I open Safari and make it fullscreen. Good. I choose to open another Safari window and it moves to a different desktop space. Not so good. Even worse, I can't move it into the same space manually. Granted, the answer is to use tabs, but still.

Other than that, desktop spaces don't remember which application opens up (upon login) into which space, etc. So lots of little niggles here and there which will obviously get ironed out as Apple gets closer to perfecting the concept.

Otherwise, unifying Exposé and Spaces and Dashboard is wonderful. Interesting to note that I can still get the old Exposé functionality with separate windows of the same application (when not in fullscreen.) Hmmm . . .

Just curious are you or others testing Lion on a desktop with a Magic Mouse? I see all the great things with gestures that Apple is doing for trackpads, and I'm curious as to how things work with something like the MM. I'm on a Mac Pro, and have no desire for the Magic Trackpad. I really hope that at some point Apple expands on the MM to allow for things like pinch in/out....3 finger up/down etc.....just not sure they will.

I think I read that now in Lion a 2 finger swipe moves between spaces/fullscreen apps? Is this customizable? What happens then to the current 2 finger swipe in say a browser (prev/next) or the Finder (back a folder)?

Thanks.

-Kevin

 

[kalsta]

Maybe it's because when you hide app windows (command + option+ H), it won't hide Safari windows.

If your Safari windows won't hide, there's something wrong with your system.

And then to 'unhide' the ones that do disappear, you have to click on each app in the dock one at a time to bring them back. Not much of a shortcut.

Try 'Show All' from the application menu if that's what you really want to do. I rarely if ever find the need for this.

 

[kalsta]

It's a shame more Windows users don't seem to know about Ctrl+D or Ctrl+M. Either command lets you minimize every single window open on your system instantly. It's not exactly the same as hiding something in Unix, but it's similar.

And I agree... Too few Mac users know how to hide. I don't even minimize, as it essentially does the same thing as hiding, yet just adds more visual clutter to your Dock.

There you go. Never thought I'd see the day where I agree with Steve Ballmer!

I've occasionally wondered how you could make hiding more of a visible feature for newbies, and after seeing the demo at http://10gui.com I thought the concept had some promise. Before I really understood what Apple was trying to do with Mission Control, I started sketching some ideas of my own and then I realised that Mission Control was essentially an implementation of what I was trying to do. So, without having actually tried it, I'm hopeful that if anyone can make this work, Apple can.

BTW, it looks like aliens already have this kind of interface, albeit on a holographic projection screen. Does anybody else watch V?

 

[Hellhammer]

Just curious are you or others testing Lion on a desktop with a Magic Mouse? I see all the great things with gestures that Apple is doing for trackpads, and I'm curious as to how things work with something like the MM. I'm on a Mac Pro, and have no desire for the Magic Trackpad. I really hope that at some point Apple expands on the MM to allow for things like pinch in/out....3 finger up/down etc.....just not sure they will.

I think I read that now in Lion a 2 finger swipe moves between spaces/fullscreen apps? Is this customizable? What happens then to the current 2 finger swipe in say a browser (prev/next) or the Finder (back a folder)?

Thanks.

-Kevin

Prev/next swipes are now done with one finger. You have heard correctly, two-finger swipes move between Spaces but there is also an option for "navigate" in preferences though I don't personally know what that does. Dual two-finger tap enters Mission Control. That's pretty much it, there aren't many new gestures. The good thing is that BetterTouchTool works with Lion

I can post a screenshot of the Mouse preferences once I get my ass up from the bed

EDIT: Navigate lets you scroll back and forth in System Preferences for example

 

[netnothing]

Prev/next swipes are now done with one finger. You have heard correctly, two-finger swipes move between Spaces but there is also an option for "navigate" in preferences though I don't personally know what that does. Dual two-finger tap enters Mission Control. That's pretty much it, there aren't many new gestures. The good thing is that BetterTouchTool works with Lion

I can post a screenshot of the Mouse preferences once I get my ass up from the bed

EDIT: Navigate lets you scroll back and forth in System Preferences for example

Thanks again Hellhammer. You can go back to bed now

Can't wait for Lion.....looking like a kick-ass release.

-Kevin

 

[dyn]

And I agree... Too few Mac users know how to hide. I don't even minimize, as it essentially does the same thing as hiding, yet just adds more visual clutter to your Dock.

Not really. Minimise is more like application expose. With hide you either hide everything or nothing. With minimise you get to choose what you're hiding. It let's you finetune which windows of an app are visible.