Spark the best [update: a good] email client for BOTH macOS & iOS

[SteveJobzniak]

This image from the latest Spark version (1.0.0.189) says more than 1000 words about why I do not use Spark for Mac yet:

(And when this happens in Spark - and it happens a LOT - the only way to get the messages to show up in Spark is to search for the title/subject/sender of the email in Spark. It WILL find it in its own database. Then you must CLICK the search result. Clicking it to view the email will mark the email as "visible" again in Spark's database, and you'll be able to see it again in the Inbox.)

So again, others may put up with major bugs like this. Call me old-fashioned, but personally, I prefer my email client to show all of my emails, and to properly move and/or delete them when I perform actions on them.

To everyone: Read and keep track of my earlier post of serious bugs that aren't fixed yet. You'll never see such a list from Spark themselves. I am casually updating it over time, as bugs get fixed: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...re-the-end-of-the-year.2013631/#post-24008159

Also, for those who want to use the latest betas (much faster bugfixes than the glacially slow Mac App Store updates), read this other post for the info and download link: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...re-the-end-of-the-year.2013631/#post-24002740

 

[Nick11Mac]

Thanks for sharing your experience with Spark for Mac. Guess I'll wait until the bugs are sorted out before trying it.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

@Nick11Mac: Happy to help. I am sure that the bugs will be sorted out soon, because these guys are talented. They've worked super hard to fix a lot of bugs in a very short amount of time (these are the releases in the last 1.5-2 week period). It's just that Spark is a very complex project and it'll take some more time to iron out issues like this, and they're coding sleeplessly 24/7 to make it the best email client in the world. I greatly look forward to switching to Spark full-time in a month or two.

 

[Fozzybadfeet]

^By chance, have you received any reply from the bugs that you've reported? Or is it simply, you submit the bugs you find and that's it?

 

[SteveJobzniak]

^By chance, have you received any reply from the bugs that you've reported? Or is it simply, you submit the bugs you find and that's it?

Nono, I work very hard to find bugs and give detailed reports and they really appreciate that. We talk a lot back and forth about each bug (they even worked after midnights to try to fix the most serious issues before Nov 30th). They actively follow up with me after they've fixed things. Lots of the changelog fixes are things from my reports. They're very aware of everything in my bug list on the previous page. They're only humans though, and need to breathe after the hectic release, so they won't be able to fix everything for a while.

But here's some great news: I think I've finally found the exact cause of the two most serious bugs (that together leads to the missing-email situation in the screenshot above). I've just submitted the detailed report and have a good feeling about the cause being found at last. I might even switch to Spark full-time after this is fixed, since these major email screwup bugs are the main things preventing me from trusting Spark yet. Emails disappearing or not being moved or deleted is unacceptable. But the other bugs are things I can live with for now.

 

[gr2020]

From Spark's privacy policy (https://sparkmailapp.com/privacy), a bit about how the app works:

Accounts are added to Spark through OAuth where possible. Where OAuth is not supported we keep your account username and password on our secure servers. We then use the authorization provided to download your emails to our virtual servers and push to your device. [...]​

Spark servers download email headers and text parts from your email service provider and use them to compose push notifications. We delete email headers and text as soon as push message has been prepared and sent. We store messages and emails in encrypted form on secure cloud-based servers. [...]​

I have no interest in a mail app that downloads my mail to its own servers. It's worthy of careful consideration - you're trusting them completely with your mail here.

 

[willmtaylor]

From Spark's privacy policy (https://sparkmailapp.com/privacy), a bit about how the app works:

Accounts are added to Spark through OAuth where possible. Where OAuth is not supported we keep your account username and password on our secure servers. We then use the authorization provided to download your emails to our virtual servers and push to your device. [...]​

Spark servers download email headers and text parts from your email service provider and use them to compose push notifications. We delete email headers and text as soon as push message has been prepared and sent. We store messages and emails in encrypted form on secure cloud-based servers. [...]​

I have no interest in a mail app that downloads my mail to its own servers. It's worthy of careful consideration - you're trusting them completely with your mail here.

As opposed to the email service company & device company having the same access? Everyone has to draw his/her own line. I'd personally trust Readdle over Google or Yahoo! Mail.

 

[gr2020]

As opposed to the email device itself having the same access? Everyone has to draw his/her own line. I'd personally trust Readdle over Google or Yahoo! Mail.

Well, my device already has my mail. Google already has my mail (or Yahoo, or iCloud, or Fastmail, or whoever). Adding a third party in the middle (in this case, Readdle) is the part that's different here.

And I have nothing against Readdle - I use some of their software. But not their email client, if they insist on having their servers between me and my mail. But that's just me - like you said, everyone must draw their own line.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

@gr2020: Without doing that, Spark wouldn't be able to have push notifications. You will see that every email app with push notifications has a push server between you and the mail server. Same with EasilyDo Email. Same with Airmail. Same with Polymail. Etc etc etc etc etc etc. There's no way to get a modern client with features like cross-device snooze, cross-device send later, incoming push notifications, etc, without having an in-between server.

Apple's own Apple Mail on iOS is worse. It has no Gmail push. Only IMAP fetch. So you have to keep watching your email manually. Alternatively you have to use Gmail's official clients to get push.

Anyway, if you really want maximum privacy, read my 1st post in this thread... your answer is called "Canary". An ultra privacy-conscious client made by two brothers, which encrypts everything and is fully local. ;-) It's not particularly great, but it's unique and has potential, and it's in beta for both Mac and iOS.

 

[gr2020]

@gr2020: Without doing that, Spark wouldn't be able to have push notifications. You will see that every email app with push notifications has a push server between you and the mail server. Same with EasilyDo Email. Same with Airmail. Same with Polymail. Etc etc etc etc etc etc. There's no way to get a modern client with features like cross-device snooze, cross-device send later, incoming push notifications, etc, without having an in-between server.

Apple's own Apple Mail on iOS is worse. It has no Gmail push. Only IMAP fetch. So you have to keep watching your email manually. Alternatively you have to use Gmail's official clients to get push.

Apple's Mail app on MacOS supports IMAP IDLE, which effectively supports "push" email to the desktop (more or less), with no additional software required, when using an IMAP host that supports it (which is many of them).

Given this, I don't need additional push notifications to the desktop. So, I don't need an intermediate server between me and my mail.

For iOS, there are of course other alternatives for push email that don't involve third-party servers. Google mail supports push on their paid plans, Fastmail supports push email with their IMAP service, Exchange Activesync is widely available as well.

Look, I get what you're saying. If Spark (or other 3rd-party apps) wants to support push notifications, then they need a server between me and my mail. However, at the moment, it's not a trade-off that I'm personally willing to make. Everyone should try to understand how it works (which was the point of my post), and then decide for themselves.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

@gr2020: Agreed, some people have really sensitive emails and shouldn't use any 3rd party push notification servers. You could keep an eye on Canary, which is built for total privacy. It even encrypts your message cache on-disk so that nobody can read it if they steal your hard disk. That's attention to detail. However, I tried Canary and it still feels very unfinished and unpolished so far, and it's just programmed by two brothers which means they don't have a lot of time to throw at the project... but hey, if total privacy and a modern client is the goal, there's nothing else like it out there.

 

[suleman_kh]

This is the list of bugs that constantly annoy me, as of the latest Spark 1.0.0.189 (doesn't include the list of my bug reports that they've already fixed; this is ONLY the list of my reported bugs that still exist in the latest Spark):

• When you press "Reply" on a message thread, Spark always sends it to the "From" of the message you clicked Reply on. So if you click your own message in a thread, to send a follow-up (while quoting your own latest email below), it will send the new reply to yourself. That's silly. Who would want to email themselves? Apple Mail on the other hand understands this situation, so if you reply to a message you sent to someone, it will set THEM as the target of the new message too.

And these are just the bugs I know about without even using Spark as my main client. Imagine if I used it for more than 1 minute (to check the latest bugfixes) a day. There is no way I will start using Spark full-time yet. But I greatly look forward to the day that it's finally stable!

The last thing you mentioned seemed to be fixed, but I know this is actually a "problem" in the Mail app. So for me Spark is working great so far. I am trying out all the "bugs" you mentioned.

Im on v. 187 Mac app!

 

[torchy]

I would suggest that there is no one generic 'best' e-mail client for everyone. A lot of the comments here seem to be focussed on personal e-mail accounts. My primary e-mail account is a corporate Exchange one. I also have an iCloud account for general personal use and a Gmail account for secondary personal use. My needs—even between these three accounts—differs.

For my primary corporate Exchange account I have a defined workflow need which is my number 1 priority. Read, either reply immediately or move to Omnifocus. Whichever of these routes is taken, then file the e-mail (and its reply where appropriate) in a specific named folder. And I want that workflow to be the same on my desktop and phone.

After that I have other needs such as threaded conversations, nice handling of attachments, etc. But these are secondary.

After years of messing with different clients, about a year ago I settled on Airmail. Now I'm not a zealot, or a liar, but I don't recognise any of the myriad bugs reported by the OP or any of the other posts here. I run it on my Mac and on my iPhone and the workflow is beautiful and fast and —importantly for me—I can drive everything (the entire A-Z process) from the keyboard on my Mac.

The iPhone experience is very similar.

I'm not saying it would work for everyone, and that's my point. The OP is wrong, IMHO, in saying that Spark is "the best e-mail client". It may be for him, but it sin't for me and it might not be for you. If I can't have Exchange support, complete keyboard driven usage and tight integration with Omnifocus then an e-mail client is wrong for me.

BTW, Airmail (on both platforms) has a ton of configuration options. That may put some off—or they may lose out by not understanding them and using them properly. But I have an incredibly tailored e-mail experience that is perfect. but FOR ME.

David

 

[bigpoppamac31]

I've been using Mac Mail ever since the beginning but some of these other email apps seem really good. So far I'm curious about Spark and Airmail the most. Are their any advantages of one over the other? And are either or both better than Mac Mail?

 

[suleman_kh]

I would suggest that there is no one generic 'best' e-mail client for everyone. A lot of the comments here seem to be focussed on personal e-mail accounts. My primary e-mail account is a corporate Exchange one. I also have an iCloud account for general personal use and a Gmail account for secondary personal use. My needs—even between these three accounts—differs.

For my primary corporate Exchange account I have a defined workflow need which is my number 1 priority. Read, either reply immediately or move to Omnifocus. Whichever of these routes is taken, then file the e-mail (and its reply where appropriate) in a specific named folder. And I want that workflow to be the same on my desktop and phone.

After that I have other needs such as threaded conversations, nice handling of attachments, etc. But these are secondary.

After years of messing with different clients, about a year ago I settled on Airmail. Now I'm not a zealot, or a liar, but I don't recognise any of the myriad bugs reported by the OP or any of the other posts here. I run it on my Mac and on my iPhone and the workflow is beautiful and fast and —importantly for me—I can drive everything (the entire A-Z process) from the keyboard on my Mac.

The iPhone experience is very similar.

I'm not saying it would work for everyone, and that's my point. The OP is wrong, IMHO, in saying that Spark is "the best e-mail client". It may be for him, but it sin't for me and it might not be for you. If I can't have Exchange support, complete keyboard driven usage and tight integration with Omnifocus then an e-mail client is wrong for me.

BTW, Airmail (on both platforms) has a ton of configuration options. That may put some off—or they may lose out by not understanding them and using them properly. But I have an incredibly tailored e-mail experience that is perfect. but FOR ME.

David

I think this is the best post regarding which is client is best or not! It's actually true what David is saying. All have personal experience and different needs. I'm doing same as David. But this weekend I switched over to Spark. It's still too early to say if I will continue using Spark or keep using Airmail. But so far I've preferred Spark in these 2-3 days usage.

I use:
Spark for corporate!
ICloud for personal and specially sync!
Gmail for all "newsletter" or "spam".

To-do: i like the Apples built-in.
Notes: I have not used it much, I just realized I don't take so much notes! They usually just are dealt when needed!

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

Anyone know why iCloud account sent e-mails from Spark do not show at server level and therefore my other devices?

 

[KALLT]

From Spark's privacy policy (https://sparkmailapp.com/privacy), a bit about how the app works:

Accounts are added to Spark through OAuth where possible. Where OAuth is not supported we keep your account username and password on our secure servers. We then use the authorization provided to download your emails to our virtual servers and push to your device. [...]​

Spark servers download email headers and text parts from your email service provider and use them to compose push notifications. We delete email headers and text as soon as push message has been prepared and sent. We store messages and emails in encrypted form on secure cloud-based servers. [...]​

I have no interest in a mail app that downloads my mail to its own servers. It's worthy of careful consideration - you're trusting them completely with your mail here.

I’ve alluded to this in the thread already. This is an absolute non-starter for me, no discussion about it. It is simply impossible to have any push-like functionality on iOS, unless the provider owns the email client. Most of these new desktop clients hold themselves to the same limitation for no apparent reason.

Apple's own Apple Mail on iOS is worse. It has no Gmail push. Only IMAP fetch.

You still write it as though it were Apple’s fault. It supports push just fine, for all Exchange accounts (including Outlook) as well as for iCloud and Yahoo. Google has not chosen to use Apple’s push service and they discontinued Exchange support for non-business customers, presumably to push people towards the Gmail app. Exchange ActiveSync is currently the best option for push and it works well.

I would encourage people to abandon Gmail. They do not play nice with protocols and I do not need to mention that there is possibly no worse choice for privacy.

As opposed to the email service company & device company having the same access? Everyone has to draw his/her own line. I'd personally trust Readdle over Google or Yahoo! Mail.

And why? Fewer eyes is still better than more eyes. Are you willing to risk that a breach at, e.g. at Readdle, can compromise all of your emails? I know some people that try each email app that they can get their hands on. That’s multiple companies you have divulged credentials to. I think people should be a bit more critical about this. It also annoys me to no end that e-mail encryption is pretty much non-existent. It is like sending postcards.

 

[suleman_kh]

I’ve alluded to this in the thread already. This is an absolute non-starter for me, no discussion about it. It is simply impossible to have any push-like functionality on iOS, unless the provider owns the email client. Most of these new desktop clients hold themselves to the same limitation for no apparent reason.



You still write it as though it were Apple’s fault. It supports push just fine, for all Exchange accounts (including Outlook) as well as for iCloud and Yahoo. Google has not chosen to use Apple’s push service and they discontinued Exchange support for non-business customers, presumably to push people towards the Gmail app. Exchange ActiveSync is currently the best option for push and it works well.

I would encourage people to abandon Gmail. They do not play nice with protocols and I do not need to mention that there is possibly no worse choice for privacy.



And why? Fewer eyes is still better than more eyes. Are you willing to risk that a breach at, e.g. at Readdle, can compromise all of your emails? I know some people that try each email app that they can get their hands on. That’s multiple companies you have divulged credentials to. I think people should be a bit more critical about this. It also annoys me to no end that e-mail encryption is pretty much non-existent. It is like sending postcards.

Good points made here, I am not so sure if I will keep using the Spark e-mail anymore.

 

[willmtaylor]

I’ve alluded to this in the thread already. This is an absolute non-starter for me, no discussion about it. It is simply impossible to have any push-like functionality on iOS, unless the provider owns the email client. Most of these new desktop clients hold themselves to the same limitation for no apparent reason.

Good on you for being a responsible consumer. Too many in this day and age are not.

You still write it as though it were Apple’s fault. It supports push just fine, for all Exchange accounts (including Outlook) as well as for iCloud and Yahoo. Google has not chosen to use Apple’s push service and they discontinued Exchange support for non-business customers, presumably to push people towards the Gmail app. Exchange ActiveSync is currently the best option for push and it works well.

I would encourage people to abandon Gmail. They do not play nice with protocols and I do not need to mention that there is possibly no worse choice for privacy.

Not unlike Apple, Google has become so ubiquitous that they feel they can bully users into doing it Google's way without too much todo. (Sadly, they're largely correct.)

And why? Fewer eyes is still better than more eyes. Are you willing to risk that a breach at, e.g. at Readdle, can compromise all of your emails? I know some people that try each email app that they can get their hands on. That’s multiple companies you have divulged credentials to. I think people should be a bit more critical about this. It also annoys me to no end that e-mail encryption is pretty much non-existent. It is like sending postcards.

That's a calculated risk every single user of every single web service must take. I've chosen to take it with Readdle. I quit out Google services long ago and have never trusted Yahoo. They both have too much to gain from gleaning my private information, and with Yahoo!'s user-hostile email ad services and frequent security compromises, I don't know how/why anyone is staying with them.

 

[SteveJobzniak]

Just a small update: In early December, Readdle contacted me to let me know that my bug reports and suspicions were correct, and that it lead them to find the two most serious bugs (vanishing messages, and re-appearing "zombie" emails that come back from the dead). They said they hoped to have an update within a week of that email, but they haven't released any new updates to the software since then. They're probably taking a well-deserved Christmas and New Years break.

But rest assured: They are fully aware of the two most serious bugs. And those bugs exist in Spark for iOS too. But they will be fixed on both platforms soon. Maybe a month at most. They're a high priority but are pretty hard to fix since the issue is an architectural problem in Spark itself and the way it chains "Undo" timers. But it's fixable and will be fixed. Keep an eye on their changelogs! https://sparkmailapp.com/changelog

In other good news: They now have ~100 employees. Spark is really going to take off soon. I'm just waiting for the two serious bugs to be fixed, and then I'll move to it full-time.

 

[Fozzybadfeet]

Sweet, thanks for the insight. I've been using the app since it was released and so far I'm at peace with it.

Do they have a option to enable to show the number notification on the icon for new emails? I noticed that with the iOS app too...But maybe I'm just not looking hard enough?

 

[Bart Kela]

Do they have a option to enable to show the number notification on the icon for new emails? I noticed that with the iOS app too...But maybe I'm just not looking hard enough?

I don't know where you're looking but notifications for Spark are controlled in the same place for notifications for all Mac apps (not just Spark): in Notifications in the System Preferences.

Apple menu > System Preferences > Notifications

and scroll down to Spark. You'll see the available options there, including a checkbox for Badges.

 

[DoctorDoctor]

Yeah, I am a Spark private beta tester since quite a while ago, but I wasn't allowed to talk about it. I'm also a private tester for EasilyDo (but the NDA prevents me from saying more). I'm keeping my eye on both of these clients and submitting feedback to both teams, and will be using the winner. Right now Spark is still the massive leader, by far.

However, Spark for Mac is still very, very buggy (email disappearance (missing in Spark but visible in other clients) and email deletion bugs (not actually deleting them from the server), to name two very serious issues). I've got 15 currently open bug reports and expect to see more. They're releasing major bugfixes almost every day: https://sparkmailapp.com/changelog. I wouldn't be surprised if they fail to release it on Nov 30th. If they hit that date, the bugs will still be there.

That being said, Spark for Mac is very beautiful, very fast (as fast as Apple Mail), and is shaping up nicely. I think we have a winner. But EasilyDo are very interested in beating them and will also be making a Mac app in the future, and they have a huge 30-person developer team. So it's still hard to say who the ultimate winner will be.

My personal setup will be Spark for iOS + macOS as soon as Spark for Mac is less buggy, and from that point I'll be keeping an eye on EasilyDo. But I like Spark's team and trust them. They're no slouches either. Great people from Ukraine!

Hey. You said Spark is very fast and I agree except for launching. It bounces 6-8 times before becoming available. Are you seeing this ? This is on a new 2016 MacBook Pro but I also had this issue on my 2015 MacBook. It drives me crazy. Both Mail and AirMail launch almost immediately. I emailed them about this but never heard back from them. Any suggestions ?

Jason

 

[willmtaylor]

Hey. You said Spark is very fast and I agree except for launching. It bounces 6-8 times before becoming available. Are you seeing this ? This is on a new 2016 MacBook Pro but I also had this issue on my 2015 MacBook. It drives me crazy. Both Mail and AirMail launch almost immediately. I emailed them about this but never heard back from them. Any suggestions ?

Jason

That's not fast? Oddly enough, it usually bounces 3-4x on my 2013 27" iMac at work with a typical opening time of ~4 secs. Seems fairly fast to me.

 

[DoctorDoctor]

That's not fast? Oddly enough, it usually bounces 3-4x on my 2013 27" iMac at work with a typical opening time of ~4 secs. Seems fairly fast to me.

When comparing to Airmail and Mail it is slow. Both Airmail and Mail launch almost instantly. Maybe 1 bounce. Its not a deal breaker by any means. I was just curious if anyone else was seeing this.