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Start Paying for iTools...
- Thread starter MareksMacServer
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My feedback to Apple
Hi
I just sent this to Apple. I encourage anyone to write to them aswell. And sorry if my English is quirky - it's not my primary language.
---
Hi.
This e-mail is somewhat long, but please read it all, as it contains questions that I would like to have answered.
I see no reason that one has to pay for the original iTools serivces that were free, such as mac.com e-mail. Eg. the "free" e-mail address that I got as soon as iTools was released, have been used as a major sales argument. I still remember the "I'm meateater@mac.com" ads.
It would have been just fine if one had to pay for only the additional .Mac services (that are great anyway) such as antivirus, iCal etc. But having people sign up and go tell others about their new mac.com e-mail address and then later charge money for it is ridiculous. It's the same dirty trick that the "free" hosting service namezero.com used. But for a large, trustworthy company like Apple, it's just not right.
Now to my question. Can I expect Apple to free the original services, leaving parts of .Mac free (the same that were free initially) and other parts not?
Because otherwise, I am probably going to have to switch to another platform, where I will not be dependent on any company's fees and charges. And no, the platform I talk about is not Windows.
It seems Apple concentrates a lot on having Windows users switch to Macs. Unfortunately, I have the impression a lot of people look at Apple from another point of view now. Even Microsoft does not use dirty tricks like this on their end-users. Beware not to make people switch to the "opposite" side instead of Mac OS.
If not all of the original iTools services (iDisk, homepage, e-mail) revert to being free of charge, my suggestion to Apple would be to at least offer mail forwarding so that a user's digital life is not "destroyed" because of the change of e-mail address.
Remember, not only other humans send mails to mac.com addresses. For example, I've used my mac.com mail address to sign up for a lot of other services on the Internet, of which a lot uses the mail address as a security check, sending passwords to the e-mail address.
So as it is now, people have only two choices:
1) Money to Apple, and then people can "Extend their digital life"
2) No money to Apple, and then people will _destroy_ their digital life because of them being dependent on the Mac.com e-mail address.
So, it's either Extend or Destroy. What's missing is an option for "Leave as it is now". You're forcing people to lose something. Not everyone needs the extra services that you get for your $100.
Also, I recommended the mac.com mail service to a lot of friends to whom I'll have to explain that they'll have to pay in order to keep their addresses.
I've tried to keep this mail in a sober and somewhat friendly tone, but I must admit that I am both angry and disappointed about this move. Until now, I've distanced Apple and Microsoft by their marketing techniques. But it seems Apple is not that much better...
Regards
--
Hi
I just sent this to Apple. I encourage anyone to write to them aswell. And sorry if my English is quirky - it's not my primary language.
---
Hi.
This e-mail is somewhat long, but please read it all, as it contains questions that I would like to have answered.
I see no reason that one has to pay for the original iTools serivces that were free, such as mac.com e-mail. Eg. the "free" e-mail address that I got as soon as iTools was released, have been used as a major sales argument. I still remember the "I'm meateater@mac.com" ads.
It would have been just fine if one had to pay for only the additional .Mac services (that are great anyway) such as antivirus, iCal etc. But having people sign up and go tell others about their new mac.com e-mail address and then later charge money for it is ridiculous. It's the same dirty trick that the "free" hosting service namezero.com used. But for a large, trustworthy company like Apple, it's just not right.
Now to my question. Can I expect Apple to free the original services, leaving parts of .Mac free (the same that were free initially) and other parts not?
Because otherwise, I am probably going to have to switch to another platform, where I will not be dependent on any company's fees and charges. And no, the platform I talk about is not Windows.
It seems Apple concentrates a lot on having Windows users switch to Macs. Unfortunately, I have the impression a lot of people look at Apple from another point of view now. Even Microsoft does not use dirty tricks like this on their end-users. Beware not to make people switch to the "opposite" side instead of Mac OS.
If not all of the original iTools services (iDisk, homepage, e-mail) revert to being free of charge, my suggestion to Apple would be to at least offer mail forwarding so that a user's digital life is not "destroyed" because of the change of e-mail address.
Remember, not only other humans send mails to mac.com addresses. For example, I've used my mac.com mail address to sign up for a lot of other services on the Internet, of which a lot uses the mail address as a security check, sending passwords to the e-mail address.
So as it is now, people have only two choices:
1) Money to Apple, and then people can "Extend their digital life"
2) No money to Apple, and then people will _destroy_ their digital life because of them being dependent on the Mac.com e-mail address.
So, it's either Extend or Destroy. What's missing is an option for "Leave as it is now". You're forcing people to lose something. Not everyone needs the extra services that you get for your $100.
Also, I recommended the mac.com mail service to a lot of friends to whom I'll have to explain that they'll have to pay in order to keep their addresses.
I've tried to keep this mail in a sober and somewhat friendly tone, but I must admit that I am both angry and disappointed about this move. Until now, I've distanced Apple and Microsoft by their marketing techniques. But it seems Apple is not that much better...
Regards
--
Taken From Something I Posted On Another Thread:
Oh, the hardcore fans are the bigest bunch of wankers on the face of the earth (minus M$ fans). EVERY SINGLE TIME there is a MacWorld the whole community has to bitch about something. Everyone goes on about how much they love Apple but when Apple makes a change everyone bitches about it.
If you don't like this offer, well, no one is stopping you finding free servers but I assure you that none will offer you what Apple is.
Update: Check Out This Link
Oh, the hardcore fans are the bigest bunch of wankers on the face of the earth (minus M$ fans). EVERY SINGLE TIME there is a MacWorld the whole community has to bitch about something. Everyone goes on about how much they love Apple but when Apple makes a change everyone bitches about it.
If you don't like this offer, well, no one is stopping you finding free servers but I assure you that none will offer you what Apple is.
Update: Check Out This Link
This is the first time I've complained about an Apple announcement, and it's because their are forcing us to buy their services because people are dependent of their e-mail addresses.
Digital identities should be respected - also by Apple.
I don't get your calculations. If everybody actually used 30MB each, it would be 4096 accounts on one drive, not just 4. I guess you meant 120 GB, not MB? So it would be 489 drives.
One of my key points are that not everyone needs their 100 MB disk space etc. I need only around 100 bytes of config lines that set up their servers to forward my mail so that I still get my mail. They should - at least - offer this to their existing customer base (at least)!
No, they do not need one drive per person - why do you think so? The $100 might be a fair price for all of the .Mac services, but my point is that a lot of people, including me, simply don't need all of the services.
Yes - Apple is stopping me. They started out with a free service - got a lot of customers to sign up, and now that the customers relies on their mail address, they begin charging. The same way drug dealers attract customers. The same way namezero.com did it. But a large, trustworthy company like Apple should not do a thing like this.
--
Christian
This issue wil be moot once Apple gets the mechanics in place for converting to the free email only option for users.
It's documented in their FAQs and help system, just not in place yet.
Those who wish to keep their iDisks, Homepage, etc can pay and those who just want email will get it for free.
It's documented in their FAQs and help system, just not in place yet.
Those who wish to keep their iDisks, Homepage, etc can pay and those who just want email will get it for free.
Ok, I would like to officially admit I completely f***ed the calculations.
Saying that, let's get past the figures and to the point. You sound like Apple owes you a living; have you not noticed that the computer economy is in a slum; are you on some other world? I am sure Apple had all intention to keep the service free but when it comes down to it, they are a business and a business needs to aim to keep creating growth. The only way you are going to find and email and web service that you are totally happy with is if you host your own server.
Everyone is bitching about how expensive it is but I am yet to see anyone who is bitching show stats on another service that is cheaper. If this is expensive for what you get, PROVE IT. Show me a package with the same features as in .mac for less.
On a lighter note... would be good if Apple was a dealer, they would be pricey but would have the best **** out there
Update: Check Out This Link
Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
Everyone is bitching about how expensive it is but I am yet to see anyone who is bitching show stats on another service that is cheaper. If this is expensive for what you get, PROVE IT. Show me a package with the same features as in .mac for less.
You miss the point. I don't want those features. all I want is email. If thats the only thing I use, I'm getting charged 100 bucks for a frigging email account. I'm willing to pay for a good email account, but not that much. Its not that the package is a bad deal, its that you have to buy the whole package.
And there is a lot to be said for people who are getting screwed by having to change their email accounts (or pay 100 bucks for services they dnot' want or need). I have my email in so many places I don't even remember them all, and I need to change them all if apple doesn't allow the email to be separate from the rest of the package.
Whats more, it seems like it would be a good business model for apple. How many of the 2 million itools users are going to pay 100 bucks a year for all these services. Probably nowhere near two million. how many would pay for just email if it was reasonably priced (say 10-20 bucks a year), probably a lot more. Considering the email doesn't cost that much for apple compared to the rest of the services that suck up expensive bandwith, I think this is doable and perhaps even more profitable. What it generates in good will is immeasureable.
I won't debate with you that it would not be a bad idea for Apple to sell just email at low cost.... I would not go that option but it would be smart for them..... but from the start Apple has offered a package not just an email address. If you want just an email address that will not change and be low cost, talk to your ISP for f***s sake. In fact, depending on your ISP, you can probably get a reliable account for free. Apple is not there to give your ISP a hand by taking some of their pop bandwidth, they are there to offer the best in industry tools.
Update: Check Out This Link
There in lies my piont exactly. My ISP has changed often, as I have moved various times and gotten a different cable company to provide my email (since the same companies to cover the same areas). I can't rely on ISP email for anything. Doing so ties you to your ISP, which ic even worse than the .mac situation.
On top of that, since I share a house with other people, the ISP isn't even in my name, which makes it a little bit of a hassle to go setup another email account because I'm not the person who's name is on the account. And like I said, I don't want an ISP email.
I used mac.com because I liked it better than hotmail or yahoo. And I was able to get a user name that wasn't followed by a random string of numbers because all the good ones were taken already. I will go to yahoo if I want, but I see nothing wrong with suggesting that apple offer the email as a low cost option. I ahve no problem paying for services I use.
And as for apple not being there to help my ISP, you're right. They are, however, there to keep me as a user, and making me pay 100 bucks for a ismple email account is nto the way to foster goodwill. I'm not saying I'd switch over somethign as trivial as this, but apple does have a responsibility to its users. Any company that stays in business knows that.
So in short, I reserve my right to suggest to apple they allow me to simply use the services I want to use. There is nothing wrong with my perspective on it. I'm not trying to freeload, expecting a free lunch or anything like that. I think most of the peopel upset about this have the same perspective as I do on the matter. If all we want is email, allow us to just get email.
Did you even read the link above or were you too busy sounding like a d1ckhead??
If you keep changing ISP (which I doubt) then just pay a company to set up a redirect address. For example, you can buy just the email address anything@strider42.com which redirects whatever your email address is. This way, you just have to change where it redirects to when you get a new email. And don't give me this crap about how hard it is because it is not in your name, get off your lazy arse and pick up a phone.
I will say again, you are NOT paying $100 for an email account. You pay $100 for all the services... if you don't use them, that does not mean you are paying $100 for email it means you are paying for services you are not using.
Update: Check Out This Link
For people looking for alternative e-mail addresses that aren't likely to change, there's always pobox.com - they just do forwarding (at $15/yr) but they've been around for six or seven years and seem determined to stick to their original niche so they're probably a fairly safe bet to continue to be around (of course, the very fact that I've said this has probably doomed them). Oh, they also do authenticated outgoing SMTP if your ISP's servers won't relay mail unless it's from their own domain.
My pobox.com address has pointed to four or five different ISPs over the years. Even though I no longer *need* it (since I've got my own domain) I keep it around for stuff I don't want to use my "home" e-mail address on.
There's also spamcop.net - more expensive at $30/yr but they offer POP/IMAP, webmail and industrial-strength configurable spam filtering. Only thing they don't provide is an outgoing SMTP server - you need to use your ISP for that. Mailsmith has built-in support for Spamcop reporting too I have as much of my mail as possible forwarded through this address, which in turn forwards to a "disinfected" POP account on my own domain.
I've still not completely given up on .mac yet though - while I'm ignoring all of the petitions (there aren't any that I completely agree with and some of the grammar and spelling is so bad I wouldn't want my name associated with it) However, I've sent my feedback in on both this and the 10.2 upgrade issues.
I figure I've done my bit, got my .mac escape route planned if I need it, and can now sit back and watch the seemingly neverending battle between the "I bought a Mac so Apple owes me software for life" extremists and the "I sold my first-born for body parts and gave the proceeds to Steve Jobs Who Can Do No Wrong" extremists.
My pobox.com address has pointed to four or five different ISPs over the years. Even though I no longer *need* it (since I've got my own domain) I keep it around for stuff I don't want to use my "home" e-mail address on.
There's also spamcop.net - more expensive at $30/yr but they offer POP/IMAP, webmail and industrial-strength configurable spam filtering. Only thing they don't provide is an outgoing SMTP server - you need to use your ISP for that. Mailsmith has built-in support for Spamcop reporting too
I have as much of my mail as possible forwarded through this address, which in turn forwards to a "disinfected" POP account on my own domain.I've still not completely given up on .mac yet though - while I'm ignoring all of the petitions (there aren't any that I completely agree with and some of the grammar and spelling is so bad I wouldn't want my name associated with it
) However, I've sent my feedback in on both this and the 10.2 upgrade issues.I figure I've done my bit, got my .mac escape route planned if I need it, and can now sit back and watch the seemingly neverending battle between the "I bought a Mac so Apple owes me software for life" extremists and the "I sold my first-born for body parts and gave the proceeds to Steve Jobs Who Can Do No Wrong" extremists.
Whats wrong with you?
I'm just having a discussion that had no personal attacks in it, and you start calling people names.
Yes, I'm fully aware I have the option to set up a domain like that. I'm not sure about all the ins and outs of it yet, but its somethign I may look into.
How difficult it is isn't so much the issue so much as going through the hassle. I have a lot of thigns tied to my email I don't want to change. People I don't talk to often have my current email, and if I forget someone, they won't be able to contact me. This is a big thing for plenty of people. And I can't pick up my phone to deal with my ISP, my roommate has to do it since its all in his name, and he's never around.
That doesn't change the fact I need to change my email address when apple gave us all the impression we wouldn't have to.
And if i don't use the other services, then I am paying 100 bucks for an email address if I want to keep my mac.com email. There is no way to keep my email without buying the other services currently. For an analogy, if I only want basic cable TV, I pay for it. If my provider suddenly changed and said I had to buy digital service with all the channels for 100 bucks a month, I wouldn't be very happy abobut that. I don't want those services, but what choice would I have (I know, its not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea).
So stop being so self righteous. I just want to be able to keep my current email address without paying for extras. If that won't be possible, I'll deal with it. That doesn't mean I can't make the suggestion.
Thus my suggestion that apple need only make the mac.com email free or low cost. The I'll be paying a reasonable amount for the only service I use.
And yes, I have changed my ISP at least 5 times over the last few years. a non ISP dependant email is essential for just this reason.
Whats wrong with people that they have to resort to name calling in the middle of a discussion. I totally understood everything you said, I was just giving a different perspective. chill out man and read what I said. I don't think my points are unreasonable.
Your posts are un-*****-reasonable because you won't read the ***** link above. You said "read what (you) said" but you won't read what I said.
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
http://help.apple.com/mac/5/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm
READ THE ***** LINK MORON!!!!!!
**Breathe in, breath out**
I could do with one of those Blue Pepsis right about now to go along with about 50 Hrs worth of sleep.
Am I missing something. I read the link and it says that I need a mac.com membership to add other email address to it. So either I need to buy it (which I don't want to do) or I need to find someone else to do it and then be dependant on them to keep paying for their membership. I'm not looking for a workaround. I'd like apple to offer email only accounts to their customers without playing games.
If I'm missing something, just let me, have a discussion about, don't be so obnoxious. Seriously, why be so adversarial when I'm just saying all I want is to keep my email account.
Jeeze, this place is starting to sound like maccentral.
iTools - abuse of Technology
I have similar sentiments with those who believe we deserve a better Email solution from Apple.
Here is a link to a free service for people who simply happen to live in Florida, Georgia, or Alabama (for comparison purposes):
http://www.tfn.net/TFN/Register/
Below is a copy of a long message I sent to Apple:
I am outraged that Apple has discontinued iTools.
At the bare minimum you should provide a free lifetime mail forwarding
service for all current iTools members.
$100 is what I roughly paid for OS 9.
$100 is what I roughly paid for OS X.
$3000 is what I roughly paid for my Titanium PowerBook.
$30 is what I paid for QuickTime 5 (which now doesn't work in v6)
$500 is what I paid to be an ADC select member (developer member).
Total is $3730
I remember that the major reason to upgrade to OS 9 was to make use of
iTools. It was explained during the Keynote of that year that as a
benefit of choosing the Mac platform we get iTools. The product was
touted as being a "free" service but we had to purchase OS 9 or buy a
new Mac with OS 9 or later to make use of iTools.
The current policy regarding the demise of iTools is unacceptable. I
have a large number of contacts who regard my recurve@mac.com address as
a lifetime address. Now that Apple has suckered me into giving out this
address to so many people and printing so many business cards with this
address on it you've trapped me. You are forcing me to pay $50 for the
first year and then $100 for every year after that. I don't even want
the level of services you are providing with the new .Mac offering. I
feel tricked and cheated. I feel that Apple is trying to suck all the
money you can out of me. It's the same with QuickTime 6, I'm not even
that excited about Mpeg-4 and now you've taken away my ability to edit
and save QuickTime 5 content without buying a new registration code.
Why can't I keep QuickTime 5 pro?
Below I list three possible approaches which Apple can take if they
really care about me:
1) Keep the iTools services and additionally offer the .Mac services.
Anyone who buys an Apple operating system will be able to use the iTools
services free for one year. Anyone who buys an Apple computer will get
to use iTools services free for three years. Anyone who holds an ADC
membership can have free iTools service for one year. Charge $25 per
year for those people who want to keep their iTools service but haven't
purchased a new operating system or new computer or registered for an
ADC account.
2) Allow all current iTools members to have a forwarding box free of
charge. This does not require our messages to be stored at Apple. It
allows us to avoid pestering our business and personal contacts and keep
one e-mail address for the rest of our life. It also makes life easier
when subscribing to listserves (I subscribe to eight different ones).
When we do change our Email providers we only need to log into Apple's
website and update the forwarding information.
3) Allow us to purchase full fledged Email services for $10 per year.
If Apple does not take any of the above mentioned steps to rectify this
situation then I'll take this as you just don't care about me. Please
don't make me regret adopting iTools. Had I known things would turn out
this way I would have paid for the Mail.com Email services (instead of
using iTools) before I started building so many business and personal
contacts. Please don't make me regret I chose recurve@mac.com to be my
"prestigious" Email address.
I chose the Mac because I don't want to be hassled. I value a company
that provides me with good clear solutions. This is the first time I've
been hassled by Apple and my first computer was the Macintosh 512kE.
Why are you hassling me now?!?
Sincerely,
Aaron Rosenzweig
recurve@mac.com
http://homepage.mac.com/~recurve/
I have similar sentiments with those who believe we deserve a better Email solution from Apple.
Here is a link to a free service for people who simply happen to live in Florida, Georgia, or Alabama (for comparison purposes):
http://www.tfn.net/TFN/Register/
Below is a copy of a long message I sent to Apple:
I am outraged that Apple has discontinued iTools.
At the bare minimum you should provide a free lifetime mail forwarding
service for all current iTools members.
$100 is what I roughly paid for OS 9.
$100 is what I roughly paid for OS X.
$3000 is what I roughly paid for my Titanium PowerBook.
$30 is what I paid for QuickTime 5 (which now doesn't work in v6)
$500 is what I paid to be an ADC select member (developer member).
Total is $3730
I remember that the major reason to upgrade to OS 9 was to make use of
iTools. It was explained during the Keynote of that year that as a
benefit of choosing the Mac platform we get iTools. The product was
touted as being a "free" service but we had to purchase OS 9 or buy a
new Mac with OS 9 or later to make use of iTools.
The current policy regarding the demise of iTools is unacceptable. I
have a large number of contacts who regard my recurve@mac.com address as
a lifetime address. Now that Apple has suckered me into giving out this
address to so many people and printing so many business cards with this
address on it you've trapped me. You are forcing me to pay $50 for the
first year and then $100 for every year after that. I don't even want
the level of services you are providing with the new .Mac offering. I
feel tricked and cheated. I feel that Apple is trying to suck all the
money you can out of me. It's the same with QuickTime 6, I'm not even
that excited about Mpeg-4 and now you've taken away my ability to edit
and save QuickTime 5 content without buying a new registration code.
Why can't I keep QuickTime 5 pro?
Below I list three possible approaches which Apple can take if they
really care about me:
1) Keep the iTools services and additionally offer the .Mac services.
Anyone who buys an Apple operating system will be able to use the iTools
services free for one year. Anyone who buys an Apple computer will get
to use iTools services free for three years. Anyone who holds an ADC
membership can have free iTools service for one year. Charge $25 per
year for those people who want to keep their iTools service but haven't
purchased a new operating system or new computer or registered for an
ADC account.
2) Allow all current iTools members to have a forwarding box free of
charge. This does not require our messages to be stored at Apple. It
allows us to avoid pestering our business and personal contacts and keep
one e-mail address for the rest of our life. It also makes life easier
when subscribing to listserves (I subscribe to eight different ones).
When we do change our Email providers we only need to log into Apple's
website and update the forwarding information.
3) Allow us to purchase full fledged Email services for $10 per year.
If Apple does not take any of the above mentioned steps to rectify this
situation then I'll take this as you just don't care about me. Please
don't make me regret adopting iTools. Had I known things would turn out
this way I would have paid for the Mail.com Email services (instead of
using iTools) before I started building so many business and personal
contacts. Please don't make me regret I chose recurve@mac.com to be my
"prestigious" Email address.
I chose the Mac because I don't want to be hassled. I value a company
that provides me with good clear solutions. This is the first time I've
been hassled by Apple and my first computer was the Macintosh 512kE.
Why are you hassling me now?!?
Sincerely,
Aaron Rosenzweig
recurve@mac.com
http://homepage.mac.com/~recurve/
It talks about converting a TRIAL account to an EMAIL ONLY account. Read the front page of www.macrumors.com ... the news report is there now.
From what I've read, no one has been able to do this conversion, and there is conflicting information. And when I read that, it says to me you have to have a .mac account and then you can add the email only account for 10 bucks. You can't, as far as I can tell, get the email by itself. You absolutely have to have at least one .mac account for 100 bucks. Maybe I'm still missing something, but that how it appears to be. There is no way to get the email by itself.
I quote: "You must have a full .Mac member, who has purchased an additional email-only account, include your converted account as part of their membership."
my email only account is tied to a full .mac membership. If I don't want that membership, someone else must do the conversion for me. If thats so, if they decided to no longer use .mac, my account would also be forfeit.
So I must still be a friggin moron, cause I'm reading it and it simply restates the exact thing I don't like about the situation.
Since Apple (through RAILhead) stated that email-only accounts were 10$ i think, you should be able to choose what parts of .mac you want to use and just get charged on the IMO..