I’m currently using a mid 2011 21.5 iMac I’ve had from new. I bought a base model, but immediately added RAM, which I did to my previous Macs as well, because even in 2011 4GB RAM just didn’t cut it. Over the years I upgraded the RAM further to 16 and then to its present 32GB as well as swapped in an SSD as well as replaced the processor. So in addition to the original purchase price I spent maybe another $800-$1000 in upgrades.
If my finances had been different in 2011 I might have opted for ordering a BTO iMac as it might have cost me somewhat less in the long run, but such is life.
My iMac certainly runs better than when it was new and I’ve never had any issues with it, but I also I had less clear idea of what I would need then than I do now. And finances are better today.
But you can’t live in the past forever. Sometimes you have to move on. Interestingly if I had bought a BTO iMac three years ago it would have cost me than a BTO M3 iMac today and it still wouldn’t have the same performance. The new M3 iMac will be incrementally larger in overall size than my 21.5, but it will have a bigger and nicer display and a lot more power. It will also be quieter even though my 21.5 was never what I’d call noisy.
Lately I noticed myself that I am less exciting about Apple Silicon then I was about it at the release of the M1. Especially now with the absurdly high upgrade prices and the lack of upgradability in mind. My first Mac was a MacBook Pro 2013 which came with a 128 GB SSD. I was very happy when I discovered that the Mac was upgradable with a higher capacity NVMe SSD years ago. With this upgrade it was and still is a great Mac to date. In 2020 I was so hyped about AS that I replaced it with the M1 Mac mini and sure it is a amazing fast machine. 2 years ago I replaced it with a Windows computer because Windows 11 was a huge visual improvement imo. I still like my Windows ThinkPad and while it has 8 GB RAM and a 256 GB SSD which suit my needs today, I love the fact that it can be upgraded with more RAM and more storage in the future.
The love for the Mac never faded away so I bought a 2nd hand 2013 MacBook Pro again to play with. I really like to tinker with this device and keeping it up and running for todays internet tasks. Also bought a 2nd hand 2013 21,5" iMac a few days ago. Really loving the idea that the Mac's (and ThinkPad) I have can be made better computers without buying a total new one and by getting more life out of them, they don't end up becoming e-Waste so quickly.
Really hoping there will be a late Intel Mac section in the MR forums.
Anyone else here returning to Intel Mac's or still using early/late Intel Mac's in 2024? What's your reason?
So clearly you have tech not for using it but tinkering with it.
You also conveniently leave out the fact that soldered RAM and SSDs began before Apple Silicon debuted. And is a fact on many Windows laptops as well. What an unnecessary post.
Any Intel Mac you use is so underpowered compared to the Apple silicon.
The only way to get smoking performance that will waste an Apple silicon chip and be upgradeable is to build a hackintosh with a current gen intel i7 or the beast i9 14900k chip.
Apple was a cornerstone of desktop publishing from day one, right? What I find silly is, that with Silly™ Macs you can't even calibrate your display properly. It's all hacks and workarounds. Plus, there aren't many apps around that can do it.
What's the point of having mega fast Photoshop if your colors are off?
Any Intel Mac you use is so underpowered compared to the Apple silicon.
The only way to get smoking performance that will waste an Apple silicon chip and be upgradeable is to build a hackintosh with a current gen intel i7 or the beast i9 14900k chip.
We're all here in an Early Intel subforum of MacRumors to conspire about how fast we can smoke the Silicon Macs. Because as long as a task isn't done at Apple Silicon speeds it's not relevant.
Lately I noticed myself that I am less exciting about Apple Silicon then I was about it at the release of the M1.
…
Anyone else here returning to Intel Mac's or still using early/late Intel Mac's in 2024? What's your reason?
(Laughs in PowerPC). We’ve all been there… to a point. Some more than others. (Snickers in 680x0).
It’s ok to have this feeling. Every computer is as capable of its task at 10 years old as it was when new. The issue will come when OS compatibility, security, speed, and features you (think you) need, but cannot use come around. Or when your system just plain breaks or dies.
MacOS Klondike, Thunderbolt 5, HDMI 3.1.1, 8K displays, USB 5, Bluetooth 5.9, and many other new features will never be supported on your old Intel Macs. You will upgrade eventually and no one is tempting you now but yourself.
Apple was a cornerstone of desktop publishing from day one, right? What I find silly is, that with Silly™ Macs you can't even calibrate your display properly. It's all hacks and workarounds. Plus, there aren't many apps around that can do it. Who needs mega fast Photoshop if your colors are off?
Have a look at the desktop offerings — or lack thereof — in that 2014–2018 window.
2014 introduced soldered consumables to the Mac mini — a big step backward. Models would go years between updates (six years with the Mac Pro). Comically underpowered education iMac and Mac mini models found a new low point (even by Apple’s past Education-model standards). The MacBook. QED.
And although I know there may be a soft spot in your heart — and in the heart of millions — for soldered-consumable rMBPs, my affinity for the rMBP came to a sudden end the moment I damaged the display on my early 2015 MBP. It happened just a month after I replaced the rMBP’s OEM SSD blade which had failed suddenly and catastrophically.
Compared with the unibody predecessor, the touted thinness of the rMBP form factor was also the rMBP’s greatest structural weakness. My 13-inch rMBP fell from a sofa to a floor at just the right angle, and it was curtains. To no credit due Apple, there was no feasible way to replace the display.
Meanwhile…
my mid-2009 13-inch unibody MBP, packed away in my messenger bag as I rode along a bike lane to graduate seminar one sunny, autumn morning in 2009, was T-boned (along with with me, my body, my bicycle, and my Nikon F4) by a car whose operator ran a red light along the side-street they’d been driving.
Whilst waiting, boredly, for a bed in post-ER triage, I pulled out the MBP to see how… ruined it was.
The case on the seven-week-old unit was bent strangely, but the sleep LED pulsed. I opened it. The display was fine, except for an isolated spot near the bottom, behind which the lid metal was now pressing against the rear of the LCD. It had a spinner HDD. No problem! The system awoke exactly where I’d left it before leaving home earlier. The Mac functioned as if it never knew anything had struck it.
Nevertheless, as a kind of backup insurance, I picked up another mid-2009 of the exact same specs from the Apple Store after I was discharged. I returned it once I realized the crash-tested MBP was doing just fine. I was even able to bend the case back so the lid could close properly. I’d end up using it as my daily driver for almost two more years (before I killed it, quite unintentionally, with a punctured can of coconut water, replacing it with the early 2011 i5 MBP I used until a year ago, replacing it with a late 2011 i7).
Before that collision, the unibody MBP’s form factor had me dubious (as I really loved the pre-unibody Al PowerBook industrial design, especially its keyboard). The only reason I bought one was my 15-inch Santa Rosa MBP was stolen the month prior and I needed a replacement. After the collision? I became a unibody convert, even if I never loved the keyboard as much.
I maintain, to this day, Apple reached their design and durability high water mark for portables with the unibody case design: it is fundamentally robust and nearly impervious to flex, thanks to water-carving a solid block of metal just thick enough. It is just thin enough to contain everything (look, kids, a 2.41cm thickness is plenty thin). There’s just enough heft that a stiff wind can’t catch it from underneath (and flip it over from your balanced lap). Everything to follow the unibody evolved as exercises in compromises which yielded to aesthetic design/form — notably so to compromises in utility (parts) and robustness/durability. The best design should never compromise function or durability.
I’m done kvetching over this.
The rMBPs reduction in robustness was compounded further by Apple cracking down on sales of replacement components — forcing the retina display manufacturer, LG, from being able to sell replacement retina LCDs to any party, other than Apple. There was, early on, a tiny trickle of replacement retina LCDs which did get sold, via clandestine suppliers in Asia, to independent repair shops worldwide, but Apple aggressively put a halt to that (no doubt dangling their anvil over LG’s head).
Seeing how Apple worked against what the market needed, and how enforcement kept me from repairing my own rMBP, these are what ended whatever lingering reverence for the rMBP I may have had previously. But that’s just me.
Personally, I ended up very disappointed with the Intel range of Macs, to the point of abandoning it in virtue of the iPad Pro, which ended up replacing my laptop as my main computer, having only my 2013 iMac 27" as my desktop computer (currently the Mac Studio M1 Max with the Studio Display).
I bought a 2016 13" MacBook Pro 2016 with the Intel i7, 16GB of RAM and 512GB of storage, and was extremely disappointed, the power was lacking for my workflows and it would crash with demanding tasks, which neither my 2013 iMac 27" nor the previous 2010 MacBook Pro 15" I had did.
I bought an iPad Pro 10.5" and everything was fine, even what the MacBook Pro would get stuck on, so I sold it and kept just the iPad, which I traded in for the 12.9" M2 and am very happy with.
However, having tried the latest laptops with Apple Silicon, it has caused me to end up going back to a Mac laptop. The keyboard is back to what it was, the power they have and above all, the autonomy, a far cry from any Apple Intel laptop or the iPad Pro with the Smart Keyboard.
In the end I bought a MacBook Pro M3 Pro 14", with 18GB of unified memory and 1TB. I still keep the iPad Pro M2, but surely when the OLED comes out, I will go for the 11" model to return to having a single iPad more manageable and lighter to carry, something I miss, since the large model weighs and occupies the same as a laptop to use. I'll probably leave the iPad more as a home and travel device, so I can edit photos when I go on vacation, but with no pretensions of being a "laptop".
Yup. Can't agree more. Easily the 2016 MBP was the worst Apple purchase I ever made. I survived, but it was not my best years with Apple equipment. Looking back, I probably could have tried the all-in iPad and almost been as happy. I imagine laptops are generally going to not have as long a lifecycle for the most of us. Too much to go wrong -- batteries, keyboard, hinges... especially if your Keyboard is already garbage. ;-)
The upgradability is missed, but the efficiency, performance, lack of heat, lack of noise with Apple Silicon is so very welcomed. My M1 MacBook Air with 16GB of RAM still blows me away today. Its size, speed, lack of fans, lack of heat all are still so impressive, especially when considering I paid less than $1100 for it.
Yup. Can't agree more. Easily the 2016 MBP was the worst Apple purchase I ever made. I survived, but it was not my best years with Apple equipment. Looking back, I probably could have tried the all-in iPad and almost been as happy. I imagine laptops are generally going to not have as long a lifecycle for the most of us. Too much to go wrong -- batteries, keyboard, hinges... especially if your Keyboard is already garbage. ;-)
Increasingly, I ponder just how many Silly Mac owners paid for far more than what they’ll ever use it for (and would have done just fine sticking with an iPad Pro and a keyboard as their daily driver/only computer). Like, that’s what Apple, since at least Lion, were aiming for — blurring the iPad/MacBook line and blurring iOs-iPadOS/OS X-macOS, respectively — and yet, here we are, having this Sisyphean discussion in 2024.
Downsides of soldered RAM and storage:
1, Can't upgrade
2, Apple tax is now roughly 1,000% of the price they pay
3, Can't repair the computer at if RAM or storage fail
4, Can't remove the SSD
5, These downsides add up to create more worldwide e-waste
Advantages (all extremely mild):
1, Saves Apple maybe $1-2 in build costs
2, Perhaps 0.1% performance gain
3, Tiny battery life gain
4, Microscopic gains in thinness
Errr, so who gains from this anti consumer practice, really? 👀
I'd love for the EU to enforce user replaceable RAM/storage/battery with minimal difficulty. (No glueing down the battery and making it a 2 hour job like Apple have previously done!)
Nope. Now that intel is back in the game, maybe it’s different. But I remember the slow inconsequential intel upgrade cycle, the hardware based vulnerabilities, hot running and needless throttling. I upgraded to the entry level M1 13 MBP when I did not pack my intel MBP and I needed a computer. My M1 MBP was twice as fast as the old intel and lasted 4 times as long on battery. Totally satisfied
I read about complaints about some old software that can’t run on Apple Silicon. All I can say is whoopdidoo. Old software in this day of security issues - no thanks. And for others who have software that was never ported off of Windows. Well if vendor doesn’t support Apple Silicon. Stay on windows, otherwise asking for trouble.
Not so fast! Apple still recommend calibrating XDR® except that the measurement device they recommend for such procedure and have a downloadable app for it costs in excess of 15k.
Whilst intel based Macs got me into the ecosystem as I could run windows if I had to or didn't end up liking macOS, I'm glad they're no longer in production (Mac Pro maybe? lol). Every single one that I owned was hot and noisy if doing anything beyond basic web or email stuff.
Apple Silicon finally feels like you can make use of the performance without the machine either catching fire or running up the fans like a jet turbine ready for take off.
Downsides of soldered RAM and storage:
1, Can't upgrade
2, Apple tax is now roughly 1,000% of the price they pay
3, Can't repair the computer at if RAM or storage fail
4, Can't remove the SSD
5, These downsides add up to create more worldwide e-waste
Advantages (all extremely mild):
1, Saves Apple maybe $1-2 in build costs
2, Perhaps 0.1% performance gain
3, Tiny battery life gain
4, Microscopic gains in thinness
Errr, so who gains from this anti consumer practice, really? 👀
I'd love for the EU to enforce user replaceable RAM/storage/battery with minimal difficulty. (No glueing down the battery and making it a 2 hour job like Apple have previously done!)
You forgot the ram is soldered because the low power ram has to be. Though seriously few people actually upgrade after purchase anymore. It would be a good avenue to add internal SSD capacity. But with advances in SOC technology, the computers are obsolete before you need an upgrade.
I had an intel MBP with 16 GB of ram, never used it. Dropped back to 8 and never had a problem.
That being said, no one supports Apples SSD or RAM pricing. So for me, 8 GB of ram meets my needs, I use a 512 SSD and move files to external storage to keep the SSD relatively empty
Increasingly, I ponder just how many Silly Mac owners paid for far more than what they’ll ever use it for (and would have done just fine sticking with an iPad Pro and a keyboard as their daily driver/only computer). Like, that’s what Apple, since at least Lion, were aiming for — blurring the iPad/MacBook line and blurring iOs-iPadOS/OS X-macOS, respectively — and yet, here we are, having this Sisyphean discussion in 2024.
Yeah, you could be right - I want you to be right actually. I don't think I am longterm one of those "only.-iPad" users since I am quite dependent on the MacOS since the LC days. Esp. now with Apple Silicon my heavy work is dependent on Mac and the Finder system. Yet your point is well taken. I would love to see myself going on short trips with just an iPad Pro under my arm.
Still using my late 2018 Mac mini i7 with an eGPU, which has had its trying moments the last year or two. It works for what I need at the moment, but my problem is I can’t figure out which M-powered Mac I want to upgrade.
I still will keep my mini as a server for my new Mac, plus my sister and parents to back up their data too. I’ve been leaning on the MacBook Air or Pro lines since I’m not interested in using a mini as a daily driver this time.
The M3 has been exciting to me, but I haven’t had any wonderment toward a Mac since the PowerMac G5 came out in the mid-2000s. I’ve owned more Intel-based Macs, they worked well and I enjoyed them, but the PowerBook G5 was the machine of my dreams. I can’t stand Intel, all my PC builds are AMD-based since they’re more efficient and much better priced. Intel’s only advantage is for Plex streaming in my book, otherwise AMD is the best CPU for the X86 world to me.
I will switch. Just haven’t needed to yet. M4/M5 will likely be where I’ll come in, plus using my Mac mini i7 to house my data, Music library and Time Machine backups.
Downsides of soldered RAM and storage:
1, Can't upgrade
2, Apple tax is now roughly 1,000% of the price they pay
3, Can't repair the computer at if RAM or storage fail
4, Can't remove the SSD
5, These downsides add up to create more worldwide e-waste
Advantages (all extremely mild):
1, Saves Apple maybe $1-2 in build costs
2, Perhaps 0.1% performance gain
3, Tiny battery life gain
4, Microscopic gains in thinness
Errr, so who gains from this anti consumer practice, really? 👀
I'd love for the EU to enforce user replaceable RAM/storage/battery with minimal difficulty. (No glueing down the battery and making it a 2 hour job like Apple have previously done!)
You do realize all the latter Intel MacBooks used soldered RAM and hard drives right? The last Intel Mac mini had soldered storage, the only two Mac lines were you could change both was the iMac (except the 2015-2017 21-inch) and Mac Pro.
Still using my late 2018 Mac mini i7 with an eGPU, which has had its trying moments the last year or two. It works for what I need at the moment, but my problem is I can’t figure out which M-powered Mac I want to upgrade.
I still will keep my mini as a server for new Mac, plus my sister and parents to back up their data too. I’ve been leaning on the MacBook Air or Pro lines since I’m not interested in using a mini as a daily driver this time.
The M3 has been exciting to me, but I haven’t had any wonderment toward a Mac since the PowerMac G5 came out in the mid-2000s. I’ve owned more Intel-based Macs, they worked well and I enjoyed them, but the PowerBook G5 was the machine of my dreams. I can’t stand Intel, all my PC builds are AMD-based since they’re more efficient and much better priced. Intel’s only advantage is for Plex streaming in my book, otherwise AMD is the best CPU for the X86 world to me.
I will switch. Just haven’t needed to yet. M4/M5 will likely be where I’ll come in, plus using my Mac mini i7 to house my data, Music library and Time Machine backups.
Oh man, you have some sweet moments in your future. (Smile) If you can hold out till M4 or M5, that's awesome. I think you will be really happy with Apple Silicon, and it probably won't matter which one. JMHO
Whilst intel based Macs got me into the ecosystem as I could run windows if I had to or didn't end up liking macOS, I'm glad they're no longer in production (Mac Pro maybe? lol). Every single one that I owned was hot and noisy if doing anything beyond basic web or email stuff.
Apple Silicon finally feels like you can make use of the performance without the machine either catching fire or running up the fans like a jet turbine ready for take off.
Yeah, but what about when we had to bring water from the river and to hunt for survival? Those were the times, not these SillyMacs...
I want my machine to be slow, unresponsive, with zero battery life, noisy as whales during mating and hot as the sun. At least I can upgrade it to something new, slow as well, hot as well, noisy as well, but hey, upgrade, yeahhhh! 😊
