Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

theluggage

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2011
8,011
8,444
I think the entire premise of the bigger iMac was offering a better affordable consumer display. You originally got a 27" 1440p display in a price category where a reasonable person would have expected 24" 1080p or 1200p. And a few years later, Apple upgraded the resolution to something utterly ridiculous.
I guess the economics of selling a relatively low-end machine with a high-end display for a bargain price have changed - 1440p started out at a huge premium but rapidly dropped as adoption increased. Apple jumped on the 5k bandwagon early, but the format completely flopped in the PC market and never came down in price. I suspect that the low-end 5k iMacs must have been one of their lowest-margin products. Plus, desktop sales are probably continually declining overall, so the economies of scale might not be there. Anyway, we have the 24" iMac which is the second largest-screened iMac ever - and it has a very good display.

Today Apple does not have anything comparable available. The monitors Apple sells have low refresh rates and are not particularly large.

It depends what features you feel are most important: If you must have a ~220ppi display then there's nothing else on the market (Dell and Samsung have announced 5k displays but last I looked we don't have prices or availability and they're probably - at best - comparable, if not identical, panels to the Studio Display). Personally, I don't mind dropping to ~160ppi if it means (eg) I can get a dual, matched display setup for half the price of a single SD, but there's no denying that 220ppi is the "sweet spot" for MacOS and visibly superior if you want to pay the price.

Refresh rate - yes, you can get displays with faster refresh rates if you want to sacrifice resolution, but the #1 market for those seems to be FPS gaming. Apple has a leading gaming platform: it's called the iPhone - the Mac has never pretended or really aspired to be a gaming machine.

Size - again, bigger displays are available but not at 220ppi resolution. Dell have a 32" 6k display in the pipeline which will doubtless be a bit cheaper than Apple's Pro XDR but there's no evidence that it's going to be better (as far as I can tell it doesn't have local dimming). Plus... you could maybe make a 30" iMac with narrow bezels that wasn't noticeably larger than the old 27", but the 27" is already a massive slab to have on your desk that make sit really awkward to get at the ports, so going larger doesn't make ergonomic sense to me - many people are going to want it wall mounted or on an articlated arm, at which point you've got all of your USB etc. devices dangling off a "flying" display...

Do you need HDR? Actually, a lot of people really don't, and some that do will need better HDR than you get with a few hundred local dimming zones. (Apple had a bit of brass neck when they compared the Pro XDR to a $20,000 dual-layer HDR reference display). OLED would be great, but until its 100% clear that the burn-in issue is solved you probably don't want your $2000+ computer welded to one of them.

As I see it, the diversity of displays currently on the market just further justifies the Mac Mini/Studio + whatever display you choose model. Choosing an Apple display gets you very close to the iMac experience if that's what you choose - and if you wanted a higher-end iMac/iMac Pro level of power it doesn't really cost any more.

Some people seem to want/expect a 30" XDR ProMotion iMac starting at about $2000 to replace the old entry-level 5k. I wouldn't hold your breath. Maybe Apple will make a new iMac Pro if a suitable display technology comes along but it's not gonna be cheap.
 

sunapple

macrumors 68030
Jul 16, 2013
2,841
5,481
The Netherlands
I think iMac has a right to stay and the range should be expanded. Mac Studio not too sure, but seeing as Mac mini stayed on sale for years without change the Studio might stay for a while also. The MacBook Air name is just branding, whatever they call it a consumer/pro split will stay for MacBooks anyway.

Consumer: Mac mini, iMac, MacBook Air
Pro: Mac Pro, iMac Pro, MacBook Pro

The fun part to me is that the new and powerful M chips create overlap between consumer/pro products. M2 Pro Mac mini, no reason why that should not exist except maybe difficulty choosing between products. But Apple pricing will solve that 'm sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tagbert

Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
1,438
Why do people keep referencing Jobs “matrix”

This was done when the company was at a VERY different place financially. It’s not needed anymore.

That’s not to say they shouldn’t simplify the lineups at all - the 13” MacBook Pro for example needs to go. But I know Apple won’t do that because the real purpose of that Mac is to upsell people to the 14” pro.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tagbert

JouniS

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
638
399
It depends what features you feel are most important:
If you have to say that, it means that Apple is no longer selling the kind of displays it used to. The old iMac display was exceptional for its price, in a price range relevant to a lot of people.

Today you can find plenty of decent consumer/office 32" monitors for less than $500. Physical size is no longer something Apple can use to make the iMac expectional.

If you are willing to pay $1000, those 27"/32" monitors will give you 4k resolution at 144 Hz. Apple certainly believes that higher refresh rates are the future, as it has started offering them in laptops. When Apple starts selling larger 120 Hz/144 Hz displays, it won't be an exceptional feature.

The 5k resolution is still a bit exceptional after almost a decade. But because Apple insists on ~220 dpi displays, it has a hard time staying up to date on display sizes and refresh rates. It used to be that when you bought a larger display, you also got a higher dpi, but that's no longer the case. Today you have to make trade-offs between the size, the dpi, and the refresh rate, as things have become limited by bandwidth.

Apple sells high quality displays, but the quality comes for a price. The Studio Display is good but not exceptional. In order to make it exceptional, Apple would have to cut the price by 50%.
 

dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,142
1,899
Anchorage, AK
Apple sells high quality displays, but the quality comes for a price. The Studio Display is good but not exceptional. In order to make it exceptional, Apple would have to cut the price by 50%.

You contradict your own point there. You admit that the only concern you have regarding the Studio Display is the price rather than anything related to the display quality itself. There are a lot of professionals who buy those displays because of their color accuracy among other factors, so clearly for them the price is not a stumbling block.
 

JouniS

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
638
399
You contradict your own point there. You admit that the only concern you have regarding the Studio Display is the price rather than anything related to the display quality itself. There are a lot of professionals who buy those displays because of their color accuracy among other factors, so clearly for them the price is not a stumbling block.
My point was that the large iMac had an exceptional display for its price, in a price category relevant to consumers. Today Apple is unable (or unwilling?) to sell similar affordable displays, which are simply superior to anything you can buy for $1000, without having to make serious compromises between size, resolution, refresh rate, and quality.

And that is why I believe the larger iMac is gone. No matter what display they would use in it, it would be a compromise between features readily available in the consumer market.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,142
7,120
Let the Mac Pro die with Intel - the advantages of the Mac Pro are essentially gone with Apple Silicon architecture unless Apple has something incredibly creative up its sleeve.
We don’t know this. We haven’t seen what they will produce.

Getting rid of the Mac Pro will be a death sentence for the Mac. There is a limit of how much you can connect externally. This is why I keep my 2010 Mac Pro around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AdamBuker

gpat

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2011
1,931
5,341
Italy
Yup, one of the best products and liked laptop Apple sells. They wouldn't risk loosing all that by changing the name.

You could say the same about the plastic Macbook until 2008 or about the iBook until 2006.
They could name it either way and the vast majority of customers wouldn't even notice it.
 

Basic75

macrumors 68020
May 17, 2011
2,101
2,447
Europe
Dell have a 32" 6k display in the pipeline which will doubtless be a bit cheaper than Apple's Pro XDR but there's no evidence that it's going to be better (as far as I can tell it doesn't have local dimming).
Personally I would count not having local dimming as an advantage. Not all "pros" work on HDR videos, or even videos.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tagbert

JouniS

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
638
399
Can you give an example for larger displays having higher pixel densities?
It was common back when large monitors were expensive and resolutions were constrained by the capabilities of the monitor rather than the capabilities of the port. For example, there was a noticeable density increase from 24" 1080p to 27" 1440p. Or in the CRT era, 15" monitors were often designed for 1024x768, while 21" monitors were designed for 1600x1200.
 

Basic75

macrumors 68020
May 17, 2011
2,101
2,447
Europe
It was common back when large monitors were expensive and resolutions were constrained by the capabilities of the monitor rather than the capabilities of the port. For example, there was a noticeable density increase from 24" 1080p to 27" 1440p. Or in the CRT era, 15" monitors were often designed for 1024x768, while 21" monitors were designed for 1600x1200.
Right, I wasn't thinking back to CRTs. A counterexample was the move from 30" 2560x1600 to 27" 2560x1440 which increased pixel density.
 

fuchsdh

macrumors 68020
Jun 19, 2014
2,028
1,831
Apple is not on the verge of bankruptcy.

As much as people want to act like the 2x2 matrix was some long-enduring thing, Jobs was going away from it less than 2 years after it was first revealed.

Yep. It's nice and simple, and I think Apple should definitely look at cleaning up its product line, but the 2x2 grid was not exactly a platonic ideal, it was a simplified answer for a company that was hemorrhaging money from a diffuse product line. Apple's got some weird "this exists to hit a price point and nothing else" models like the 13" MBP or the capriciously-limited entry-level models, but it's still a far cry from the "Y computer is just a rebadged X" stuff that was going on in the 90s.

(I think Apple could get rid of the 'Air' and not be put out. I never hear regular joes who have MacBook Airs refer to them as 'Airs' versus 'MacBooks'.)
 

PauloSera

Suspended
Oct 12, 2022
908
1,393
Lmao. I love the people who talk about this who don't understand why the 2x2 matrix was brought in to begin with. And it wasn't to satisfy OCD tech nerds.

Steve pushed for the 2x2 matrix not just because Apple had a complicated mess of a product line. They had a complicated mess of a product line that wasn't selling. Today Apple's product line is neither complicated, nor a mess, nor does it have any problem with selling. It is broad, for sure, because Apple is broad, and they serve a tremendous number of markets. Many of which posters on this website do not understand at all.
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.