Steve Jobs leaving Apple, good for consumers?

[r.j.s]

... Apple can continue to innovate while conforming to market demands a little more.

There's a fundamental problem with your argument here ... Apple has never conformed to market demands. In fact, Apple usually sells record units while market demands are slowing down, they enter into and dominate an existing market - iPod, iPhone - or they just create a new market altogether: iPad, AppleTV.

Nothing Apple has done since Jobs returned has been conforming to market demands, often, Apple does things in spite of demands.

 

[MacDawg]

There's a fundamental problem with your argument here ... Apple has never conformed to market demands. In fact, Apple usually sells record units while market demands are slowing down, they enter into and dominate an existing market - iPod, iPhone - or they just create a new market altogether: iPad, AppleTV.

Nothing Apple has done since Jobs returned has been conforming to market demands, often, Apple does things in spite of demands.

Agreed

Anyone who believes with Jobs gone that Apple will now be "free" to put Blu-ray in, allow Flash on the iPhone/iPad, reduce prices, ramp up specs, etc. is kidding themselves

These are business decisions made by Apple that are a part of their overall business model, not just some vindictive quirks of SJ

I don't want my MBP turned into an Alienware laptop
I don't want my iPhone turned into a Droid
I don't want my iPad turned into a Xoom

If I want those products, I will buy them
I want Apple products precisely because of their business model and strategy

 

[rdowns]

Agreed

Anyone who believes with Jobs gone that Apple will now be "free" to put Blu-ray in, allow Flash on the iPhone/iPad, reduce prices, ramp up specs, etc. is kidding themselves

These are business decisions made by Apple that are a part of their overall business model, not just some vindictive quirks of SJ

I don't want my MBP turned into an Alienware laptop
I don't want my iPhone turned into a Droid
I don't want my iPad turned into a Xoom

If I want those products, I will buy them
I want Apple products precisely because of their business model and strategy

One of my pet peeves on MR, the notion that Jobs rules Apple based on his whims. How ****ing ridiculous that is. Jobs has built a well oiled machine and a world class management team. Tim Cook deserves as much credit as Jobs for Apple's run the past decade.

Of course, Jobs has to answer to a Board of Directors. Or maybe these guys just let him do whatever he thinks is best.

Apple Board of Directors:

Bill Campbell
Chairman and former CEO
Intuit Corp.

Millard Drexler
Chairman and CEO
J. Crew

Albert Gore Jr.
Former Vice President of the United States

Steve Jobs
CEO
Apple

Andrea Jung
Chairman and CEO
Avon Products

Arthur D. Levinson, Ph. D.
Chairman
Genentech

Ronald D. Sugar, Ph. D.
Former Chairman and CEO
Northrop Grumman Corporation

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Nobody quite knows how much power the CEO has compared to the rest of the board members; however, Jobs has vision, and one cannot deny that without him the company will be the same. It remains to be seen whether this change will impact Apple on the consumer front.

 

[Flynnstone]

I agree, Apple can continue to make great products without Steve Jobs.

That is the key to what Steve Jobs does. The goal is great products.
Not half assed, not OK, but simply great. And not accepting anything less.

 

[Fubar1977]

I get the distinct impression that Tim Cook is every bit as demanding as Steve is.
No CEO of a publicly owned company who is answerable to a board of directors and, ultimately, its shareholders will have a free hand to decide major company policies/strategies on his own "whims".

I feel that Apple is in very good hands with Tim Cook and Jony Ives from a management/design point of view and Apple has a huge pool of talented people to draw upon.
Tim doesn`t exactly strike me as a man who will accept "OK" products either.
Do they have anyone else with Steves vision? Maybe...time will tell.

One things for sure, it`s fairly rare that the CEO of a major company is such an important factor in that companies public image, with a few exceptions the CEO of most other major companies don`t have Steve`s huge public profile.

Microsoft hasn`t exactly collapsed in Bill`s absence either.

 

[bigjnyc]

Nobody else does a better job at convincing the public that: Apple's "outdated, lackluster and behind the rest of the industry specs" are magical and revolutionary.... They will definitely be missing out on that.

 

[Aatos.1]

There is no "Apple Tax."

Apple has spent years, successfully programming denial into their user base.

Here's a great example of two current, new, top tier laptops. These are indentically configured base models so as not to confuse any Mac users who haven't ventured outside the walled garden.

The exception are all the extras included standard in the ThinkPad. Extras that Apple refuses to offer. In fact in my case I own one of each of these in their fully loaded configs & the Apple Tax is even higher since Apple charges more for the exact same commodity items like ram & ssd upgrades.

Essentials like built in 3G Gobi which will work with any carrier. Fingerprint login & password support. A huge advantage compared to Apple's antiquated requirement that you enter each password manually, at least once. And the list goes on. A complete set of corp grade security essentials that go far beyond mere consumer grade malware & anti-virus tools.

However since you've already stated these are of no value, again it's a stellar example of Apple denial & lack of offering current technology.

So here are the absolute basics dumbed down to match Apples MacBook Pro.

15" Laptop Basic Specs:

2.66GHz Core i7
4GB RAM
512 VRAM
500GB/5400rpm HD

$2,199.00 - MacBook Pro
$1,289.00 - ThinkPad T510

$910.00 - More for a MBP?

= 58.6% more than ThinkPad!

How can anyone possibly perceive the MBP as a good value!

 

[roadbloc]

^ I 100% agree.

 

[iPhoneCollector]

i think steve jobs already left apple he just wanted to do it quietly and nice so that the stock wont drop.

 

[Aatos.1]

Nobody else does a better job at convincing the public that: Apple's "outdated, lackluster and behind the rest of the industry specs" are magical and revolutionary.... They will definitely be missing out on that.

That's nothing more than great salesmanship.

Elton John showmanship, and David Copperfield Smoke & Mirrors.

Scripted keynotes are the single most powerful tool Jobs deploys.

By the time he's done, they're frothing at the mouth like spent race horses & ready for more.

The mans got the routine down cold.

 

[Heilage]

15" Laptop Basic Specs:

2.66GHz Core i7
4GB RAM
512 VRAM
500GB/5400rpm HD

$2,199.00 - MacBook Pro
$1,289.00 - ThinkPad T510

$910.00 - More for a MBP?

= 58.6% more than ThinkPad!

How can anyone possibly perceive the MBP as a good value!

Well, to be fair. What are the other specs? Battery life? How's the trackpad, far too few manufacturers and designers of Windows-based portables seem to care about that. What about the display?

Those are also specs.

 

[belvdr]

Well, to be fair. What are the other specs? Battery life? How's the trackpad, far too few manufacturers and designers of Windows-based portables seem to care about that. What about the display?

Those are also specs.

Lenovo's site is a disaster. But one beautiful option that's often overlooked in the Macbook arena is the ability to swap batteries. Lenovo offers a 9-cell battery on the T510 that is rated at 18 hours.

The display is as follows:

All LED
• 15" HD (1366x768) 16:9 aspect Anti-Glare, 220 Nit
• 15" HD+ (1600x900) 16:9 aspect Anti-Glare, 220 nit
• 15" FHD (1920x1080) 16:9 aspect Anti-Glare, 280 nit, 95% color gamut

I'm not sure which option the poster above chose, but the second screen listed is already above Apple's specs.

Personally, I like Apple's trackpad too, but I don't find the standard trackpads to be a hinderance.

 

[Heilage]

The second option isn't better than the HiRes on the MBP 15. The third is, though.

A lot of PC makers are notorious for putting extremely bad 1366x768 displays in their notebooks, up to 16" and all.

For my money, I'm very picky about design, also I truly hate the trackpads on non-Apples almost to the point of violence. But that's just me. I don't expect others to want the same from their computers. I just think that criticism should be given where it is due. Lenovo has made a good computer there, although I wouldn't buy it.

 

[belvdr]

The second option isn't better than the HiRes on the MBP 15. The third is, though.

How is 1600x900 (Lenovo) not greater than 1400x900 (Apple)?

A lot of PC makers are notorious for putting extremely bad 1366x768 displays in their notebooks, up to 16" and all.

Most consumers likely wouldn't notice the difference anyway, but I agree it is a bad choice for the base.

For my money, I'm very picky about design, also I truly hate the trackpads on non-Apples almost to the point of violence.

Some trackpads are worse than others. I have an older Dell Inspiron 1525 and its trackpad is the worst I have ever seen. The HPs at work though work flawlessly.

 

[Heilage]

How is 1600x900 (Lenovo) not greater than 1400x900 (Apple)?

What I said was that the HiRes MBP (1680x1050) was better, not the standard one.

 

[belvdr]

What I said was that the HiRes MBP (1680x1050) was better, not the standard one.

I had read that, but it isn't listed anywhere on Apple's tech specs page. I forgot that was even an option, to be honest.

 

[mammadon]

I don't see how it matters. Jobs clearly is a charismatic leader, and I see no reason why his values will not permeate the company for literally as long as Apple exists as a firm. Most companies' corporate culture stems from the founders, or at least those who had great influence in top management. It's like Bombardier aircraft or even Ford cars. I'd bet the Apple CEO who releases the 7G iPhone will be influenced by Jobs, how can s/he not be? lol..

 

[belvdr]

I don't see how it matters. Jobs clearly is a charismatic leader, and I see no reason why his values will not permeate the company for literally as long as Apple exists as a firm. Most companies' corporate culture stems from the founders, or at least those who had great influence in top management. It's like Bombardier aircraft or even Ford cars. I'd bet the Apple CEO who releases the 7G iPhone will be influenced by Jobs, how can s/he not be? lol..

Do you recall what happened when Jobs was ousted the first time? It went south from there.

When new management takes over, they tend to leave their own mark in the company. Whether or not they include previous management cultures in the future is up to them. It's not a given.

 

[*LTD*]

Apple has spent years, successfully programming denial into their user base.

Here's a great example of two current, new, top tier laptops. These are indentically configured base models so as not to confuse any Mac users who haven't ventured outside the walled garden.

The exception are all the extras included standard in the ThinkPad. Extras that Apple refuses to offer. In fact in my case I own one of each of these in their fully loaded configs & the Apple Tax is even higher since Apple charges more for the exact same commodity items like ram & ssd upgrades.

Essentials like built in 3G Gobi which will work with any carrier. Fingerprint login & password support. A huge advantage compared to Apple's antiquated requirement that you enter each password manually, at least once. And the list goes on. A complete set of corp grade security essentials that go far beyond mere consumer grade malware & anti-virus tools.

However since you've already stated these are of no value, again it's a stellar example of Apple denial & lack of offering current technology.

So here are the absolute basics dumbed down to match Apples MacBook Pro.

15" Laptop Basic Specs:

2.66GHz Core i7
4GB RAM
512 VRAM
500GB/5400rpm HD

$2,199.00 - MacBook Pro
$1,289.00 - ThinkPad T510

$910.00 - More for a MBP?

= 58.6% more than ThinkPad!

How can anyone possibly perceive the MBP as a good value!

Those who don't understand Apple are doomed to quote specs. Better keep doing that, because Canalys and others are now lumping the iPad into regular computer sales. Your head will explode.

Even Paul Thurrott is waking up to market realities, and the stark reality that the industry is either trying to follow Apple, or making some big mistakes by not doing so. It's all over his blog and website, there's no need to for me to reproduce it here.

That isn't "programming" any sort of denial into users. That's just *desire* for what Apple produces. A superior User Experience - the kind that Apple offers - goes way, way beyond specs. Consumers are perceiving value in different ways, and finally - thank God, it's not just about raw specs. Anyone can throw together a box of wires and slap a sticker on it. Not everyone can turn it into something which people find a joy to use. This exactly why the market and the old way of doing things is being shaken up at the very core, mostly by Apple.

 

[carlgo]

The direction and culture of the company has been in place long enough and successfully enough that changing course more than a few degrees isn't likely for a long time.

Nobody will ever have the power Jobs has and more committee-think is inevitable. But, those on the committees will be Jobs disciples and will stay on that successful and profitable course that he set.

I could see Apple competing more on specs, that long-awaited mini-tower and even blu-ray. I see more of a compromise between form and function.

It will be the same, except different....

 

[rdowns]

Do you recall what happened when Jobs was ousted the first time? It went south from there.

When new management takes over, they tend to leave their own mark in the company. Whether or not they include previous management cultures in the future is up to them. It's not a given.

The Apple of 1985 bears no resemblance to Apple today.

 

[ravenvii]

Yet another thread that devolves into spec-throwing.

This argument has been beaten into submission many, many times on those forums. This one won't be any different, so take my word - don't waste your energy. Both sides have valid points, and that's that.

Of course you won't take my word, I know that.

EDIT: I forgot - my viewpoint? I agree that Macs needs to get on the Blu-Ray bandwagon, and fast! I want to watch Blu-Ray movies, but I'm limited to DVDs because I watch the majority of my movies on my iMac.

 

[G4er?]

I could see Apple competing more on specs, that long-awaited mini-tower and even blu-ray. I see more of a compromise between form and function.

Oh God please, let it be true.

 

[belvdr]

The Apple of 1985 bears no resemblance to Apple today.

I wasn't comparing Apple 1985 to Apple 2011.

New management may (or may not) keep pursuing the same core values that previous management did. A change in management can be a huge benefit or detriment for a company. That was really my point.