Still can't decide whether to stay on EC or downgrade to Mavericks

[Ebenezum]

Anyone know what Apple DELETED the RAID option from Disk Utility in El Capitan ...... I know the option is still there but you have to use Terminal to access it. At least in Yosemite setting up a RAID is still in DISK UTILITY !!!

Your guess is as good as mine why Apple removed RAID, maybe they thought it isn't used by significant % of users and therefore they don't have to support it?

I wish Apple would seriously improve 10.11 Disk Utility, it has far too many bugs at the moment.

Mavericks will be getting security updates till 10.12 comes out, so you'll probably get security patches until October 2016, then you're on your own.

I personally had a huge number of issues with Mavericks, and wouldn't ever go back to it. Have you tried a clean install of El Cap?

I clean installed El Capitan both on iMac and Mac Pro. While it was faster than Yosemite didn't see any other clear improvements. At the moment it has too many bugs for me to consider using it, I probably test it again on the iMac once Apple releases last 10.11 version.

I am not worried about the lack of security updates, I used Snow Leopard several years after it received no more updates without any problems.

 

[pedrom]

Hi guys.

I have a MacBook Air Early 2014.

I loved the performance in Mavericks when I first got the MacBook. I'm now on El Cap, and while the performance is not *bad*, it's still not as snappy as Mavericks.

I may be going back to Mavericks, but first some questions:

- Is Mavericks as secure as El Capitan? The whole FBI thing is scary, and I want my data to be as private and anonymous as possible. Can I just enable Filevault 2 on Mavericks and be safe?

- What will I miss if I go back to Mavericks? I don't use all the Apple apps, so using outdated versions on Mavericks don't matter.

- What is YOUR experience with El Cap on a MacBook air with 4GB ram?

Thanks

I'm using it on a 2011 MBAir. It's amazing and I would never downgrade. You would lose split screen, MS Office, compatibility with newer apps, an improved look, and on and on...

 

[vista980622]

I do not care, I am content with it. Mavericks is just much, much nicer to work with that it outbalances the loss of some functionality in third-party applications. I still keep El Capitan around on an external drive, but whenever I boot into it I feel like something is wrong with my eyesight (and it is not). My MacBook also runs cooler with Mavericks.

The eye strain is extremely pronounced on devices with TN panels. (MacBook Air, plastic MacBook)

Similar to you, I divided a 5GB partition on my MacBook Air to run a slimmed down version of El Capitan for AirDrop with iOS comparability and the ability to run certain new apps.

It feels like shading of window chrome/UI elements fell out if the color range that these panels can handle, and the closest approximation is just too jarringly white.

On the other hand, El Capitan and Yosemite looks acceptable on non-Retina IPS panel devices. They looks very best on Retina panel devices.
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I also moved back to mavericks. My eyes is much healthier using Mavericks, and its more snappy. I missed the old notes, unfortunately I have upgraded my notes, no way to sync again with the old notes in Mavericks. Other than that, all settled.

Or like me, you can just create a new iCloud account under Macericks and migrate everything over.

Or create and add a secondary iCloud account to sync notes. Or just add a random IMAP email address (such as Gmail) and sync Notes with that.
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might

Well... My Mac performs great on Mavericks. The only thing that can possibly slow it down is... software updates.

For me, Mavericks already does everything I want to do, runs every app I possibly want to run, with minimal eye strain, performance issues and stability issues.

If my Mac doesn't get slow as I never update the OS, and assume I can buy battery replacements (when the factory one dies), I can use my Mac happily for life. No?

I don't see a reason to update.

 

[garysauctions]

Your guess is as good as mine why Apple removed RAID, maybe they thought it isn't used by significant % of users and therefore they don't have to support it?

Well Apple did not remove RAID from the El Capitan.

They just removed RAID from Disk Utility.

RAID can still be set up, but not as conveniently because you have to do it via Command Line in Terminal.

breathe....

..........

going to apple is a good idea (should be more useful that just ranting).

So when can one rant legitimately?

How about after one goes to Apple, spends almost three hours while the tech does anything and everything he can to find the problem ...... but can't. ( or did not want to tell me what he found )
When I question the tech about a warning flag on the Memory test he told me " oh that's just letting me know you have non-Apple RAM installed "

I got more help from another customer there, than I did from the Apple tech.
The customer waited till the Apple tech walked away to get something and told me .... " I was watching as he ran the hardware tests ..... " you need to really test your RAM " .... and told me what tool to use for that.

So I am now in my second day of testing the RAM, running each module for 10 cycles in each memory socket.
Yeah that is 16 tests ...... each test taking about 5 hours.
But at least it looks hopeful as it appears that one of the four RAM modules is consistently showing faults so far.

I am going to run that one module a few more times just to confirm.

I did go to three local vendors yesterday and they tried to sell me the RAM I needed, but when I looked up what they offered I saw reports of it causing problems on my machine.

One vendor handed me some CRUCIAL memory telling me it was for my machine.

CRUCIAL said I needed something different.

So I searched CRUCIAL site for the part number that vendor wanted to sell me and on their site it said people were having problems with those modules in my model.

I have ordered a set of modules from CRUCIAL ..... the correct ones. I look forward to installing those and running these long winded RAM tests all over again.


It's all sort of funny because from the beginning of this adventure, I suspected a RAM problem because the symptoms were all over the place yet some seemed consistent.

At least I won't have to buy a new machine at this point ...... I looked at the new ones and even had the $2700.00 in my pocket ........ but damn the new machines just do not seem to be as nice as this one.

 

[fisherking]

you can rant all you want, and am sympathetic to your plight. was just pointing out that not everyone has these issues. seems, often, when people have problems, they decide we must ALL have that problem. happens a lot on these forums. so, suggesting that asking for help is better than ranting. hope you get this sorted out.

 

[pika2000]

Been using EC 10.11.3 full time and it feels better and less buggy than previous ones. Still remember Marvericks seemingly better, but that's probably because of the earlier buggy EC. EC so far is quite stable for me on a workhorse machine.

EC is not perfect, but imo it's a huge improvement over the even buggier Yosemite. I always had issues with Yosemite.

 

[Ebenezum]

Well Apple did not remove RAID from the El Capitan.

They just removed RAID from Disk Utility.

RAID can still be set up, but not as conveniently because you have to do it via Command Line in Terminal.

I know that but Mac OS has always been about user friendliness and using Terminal is about as user unfriendly as possible.

I would hope Apples designers would bother to read Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines...

 

[fisherking]

I know that but Mac OS has always been about user friendliness and using Terminal is about as user unfriendly as possible.

I would hope Apples designers would bother to read Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines...

seriously, how many times a week are you setting up Raid drives? and anyone, with the correct information, can use the terminal...

 

[KALLT]

seriously, how many times a week are you setting up Raid drives? and anyone, with the correct information, can use the terminal...

It is not just the setting up, but also the maintenance part. You can't even view RAID disks properly anymore as the interface screws everything up. You will be in this awkward situation where you can see drives in Disk Utility, but can't really manage them from there.

It would have been acceptable if Apple had never implemented RAID into Disk Utility. But it was there and working relatively fine until they took it away. That is a loss of functionality for which they provide no explanation or even a transitional note. From one update to another, your Mac suddenly does less than before and when it happens to you it is just very annoying. It might have been acceptable if Disk Utility was overall at least a major improvement, but it was mostly just a reshuffling of the UI and not a feature extension.

 

[fisherking]

It is not just the setting up, but also the maintenance part. You can't even view RAID disks properly anymore as the interface screws everything up. You will be in this awkward situation where you can see drives in Disk Utility, but can't really manage them from there.

It would have been acceptable if Apple had never implemented RAID into Disk Utility. But it was there and working relatively fine until they took it away. That is a loss of functionality for which they provide no explanation or even a transitional note. From one update to another, your Mac suddenly does less than before and when it happens to you it is just very annoying. It might have been acceptable if Disk Utility was overall at least a major improvement, but it was mostly just a reshuffling of the UI and not a feature extension.

got it, makes sense (what you're saying, not what apple did...)

 

[garysauctions]

you can rant all you want, and am sympathetic to your plight. was just pointing out that not everyone has these issues. seems, often, when people have problems, they decide we must ALL have that problem. happens a lot on these forums. so, suggesting that asking for help is better than ranting. hope you get this sorted out.

Well sorting it out has always been the goal ..... for the first time ever I was disappointed at the Apple Store.

Testing memory correctly is time consuming as all get up and that is all I have been doing up till now.

Had one RAM module that show an error in one socket. Tested three other modules in the same socket, they passed.

Did this for each socket, however in an effort to speed up the process I did not run as many passes on each module as I had initially done. Ten passes took five hours, to do that properly would have been a solid 80 hours of testing. OUCH !!!!

Reinstalled ram, only two modules and did a fresh install of YOSEMITE.

The next big hurdle was installing the update to 10.10.5 ..... up to this point it refused to take the update saying the download was corrupted.

Well this time it actually took the update so the next test is going to be to install EC and run a few things were I was constantly getting errors. If that goes well then it pretty much confirms the module bad and solution is at hand.

Now when the new memory comes in from Crucial, I'll be testing it before moving on with it.

I brought an older 24" iMac online to get my work backlog finished ..... slower, smaller but at least I can get caught up on my work while doing the testing.

This is the first time since my move to Apple that I have had this difficulty.

I'm glad the customer I met at Apple clued me in on what he saw ..... because the Apple Tech said nothing to me.


.

 

[garysauctions]

seriously, how many times a week are you setting up Raid drives?

What if car manufacturers took on that attitude and removed airbags from steering wheels .... I mean how many times you gonna use that airbag ..... right? ( being sarcastic here ... OK )

But as was stated above, it's not just about the setting up .... there is more to it then that.

and anyone, with the correct information, can use the terminal...

With RAID implemented within the Dusk Utility GUI, you needed not have that information needed for Terminal.

I recall Apple removing something in the past, however with the right code in Command Line ..... the user could bring it back.

What boggles the mind is why remove it from the GUI, but leave it accessible in command line ???

The solution though is probably an overall improvement and if the tests prove their claims to be true, I am going with a third party software solution .... SOFTRaid.

Because of this current issues with file system Kernel Panics and file systems being trash rendering drives all but useless and in need of reformatting ..... I'll be playing around with RAID quite a bit until I get just the setup that suits my needs.

.

 

[fisherking]

What if car manufacturers took on that attitude and removed airbags from steering wheels .... I mean how many times you gonna use that airbag ..... right? ( being sarcastic here ... OK )

But as was stated above, it's not just about the setting up .... there is more to it then that.
.

you saw my post just above? i got it. meanwhile, equating airbags and raid options in disk utility is a ridiculous stretch... what if planes removed the windows? or apple removed the screen from imacs?

 

[garysauctions]

equating airbags and raid options in disk utility is a ridiculous stretch...

Both Airbags and RAID are intended on protecting users from a crash ....... right ???

Oh and like I said ( in text and not with silly smiley faces ) I was being SARCASTIC !!!!

Ok!

what if planes removed the windows? or apple removed the screen from imacs?

It was proven early on that airplanes do not need windows .......

 

[fisherking]

touché!

 

[dogslobber]

Hi guys.

I have a MacBook Air Early 2014.

I loved the performance in Mavericks when I first got the MacBook. I'm now on El Cap, and while the performance is not *bad*, it's still not as snappy as Mavericks.

I may be going back to Mavericks, but first some questions:

- Is Mavericks as secure as El Capitan? The whole FBI thing is scary, and I want my data to be as private and anonymous as possible. Can I just enable Filevault 2 on Mavericks and be safe?

- What will I miss if I go back to Mavericks? I don't use all the Apple apps, so using outdated versions on Mavericks don't matter.

- What is YOUR experience with El Cap on a MacBook air with 4GB ram?

Thanks

I use El Cap on a 2010 MBA with 4gb. It is really usable but I must confess that Mavericks was a nice to look at OS. I wouldn't got back myself as I'm a big fan of SIP. Roll on 10.12 as his MBA will be upgraded as soon as the first alpha build slips out!

 

[Ebenezum]

I use El Cap on a 2010 MBA with 4gb. It is really usable but I must confess that Mavericks was a nice to look at OS. I wouldn't got back myself as I'm a big fan of SIP. Roll on 10.12 as his MBA will be upgraded as soon as the first alpha build slips out!

I'm curious why you are planning to upgrade so soon?

In my experience that is only wise on a secondary Mac which has no important information. Using alpha builds is very bad idea if one values stability...

 

[bobr1952]

I read about ‘stability’ very often, but what does that even mean? Did applications crash (more) often on Mavericks? Did other weird things happen that do not happen anymore? OS X has always been ‘stable’ for me, but the performance has degraded on my machine.

Yes--I did have occasional system crashes--not often but occasionally--and small glitches here and there that are now gone under El Capitan. I updated to El Capitan 45 days ago--and that's how long my MacBook Pro has been running flawlessly--with no crashes or restarts.

 

[bbfc]

I moved back to Mavericks a few times, and still have it on an external HDD, but I found myself missing El Capitan and some features. However, it's been running really great for quite some time now, and I find it on par with Mavericks.

 

[dogslobber]

I'm curious why you are planning to upgrade so soon?

In my experience that is only wise on a secondary Mac which has no important information. Using alpha builds is very bad idea if one values stability...

It's an older computer which I use for test purposes like this so instability is part of the fun. I have a number of other Macs which are more reserved for upgrades.

 

[vista980622]

It is not just the setting up, but also the maintenance part. You can't even view RAID disks properly anymore as the interface screws everything up. You will be in this awkward situation where you can see drives in Disk Utility, but can't really manage them from there.

It would have been acceptable if Apple had never implemented RAID into Disk Utility. But it was there and working relatively fine until they took it away. That is a loss of functionality for which they provide no explanation or even a transitional note. From one update to another, your Mac suddenly does less than before and when it happens to you it is just very annoying. It might have been acceptable if Disk Utility was overall at least a major improvement, but it was mostly just a reshuffling of the UI and not a feature extension.

You can download a patched version of Yosemite's Disk Utility. It works on El Capitan without any issue.

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/files/file/480-disk-utility-patched-v2/
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I moved back to Mavericks a few times, and still have it on an external HDD, but I found myself missing El Capitan and some features. However, it's been running really great for quite some time now, and I find it on par with Mavericks.

Menu bar and drop down menu definitely draws slower than Mavericks, due to all the complex compositing/blending behind the vibrancy effect.

 

[fisherking]

You can download a patched version of Yosemite's Disk Utility. It works on El Capitan without any issue.

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/files/file/480-disk-utility-patched-v2/
[doublepost=1457580707][/doublepost]

Menu bar and drop down menu definitely draws slower than Mavericks, due to all the complex compositing/blending behind the vibrancy effect.

you can, of course, go to the Accessibility Preference pane and click on 'reduce transparency'...

 

[bbfc]

You can download a patched version of Yosemite's Disk Utility. It works on El Capitan without any issue.

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/files/file/480-disk-utility-patched-v2/
[doublepost=1457580707][/doublepost]

Menu bar and drop down menu definitely draws slower than Mavericks, due to all the complex compositing/blending behind the vibrancy effect.

Well there is that. But it's minor and I can live with it. I prefer El Capitan overs Mavericks, and it's taken me a while to say that. 10.11.3 and the current 10.11.4 beta really seem to have sorted a lot of the issues out for me.

 

[vista980622]

you can, of course, go to the Accessibility Preference pane and click on 'reduce transparency'...

Which makes the Dock background frustratingly white and unappealing...

 

[fisherking]

Which makes the Dock background frustratingly white and unappealing...

you could use the dark menubar/dock (in general preferences)...