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flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,323
3,003
No, but will they tell me what "causes" a freeze, or just "create" one? I can usually create one by just launching AI!

If a freeze happens then it may be related related to the GPU. Certainly doesn't cost or hurt anything to run them.

Edit - And if a freeze doesn't happen, you can pretty much eliminate the GPU as a cause.

Lou
 
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darthaddie

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2018
182
222
Planet Earth
Downloaded Prime95 and it said to contact developer for a more up to date version? Installed version 29.8b7 for Mac OS X
[automerge]1595370204[/automerge]


Techtool test for Ram was about 10 minutes. Already ran Command-D, said all was good. I don't have anything with DOS or Windows (been all Mac for over 30 years)

You can run Prime95 by Right Clicking the app and selecting "Open" instead of a double click. Mac OS X will ask you if you want to open it and it runs just fine. Its a silly workaround but works...
 

thomast0001

macrumors member
Dec 29, 2019
90
62
One thing I DO notice is that the three monitors blink 2-3 times (going black for a split second) after logging in (which did not happen on the 5,1) - for this reason, I still think this problem may come back to the W5700X card implementation?
I can pretty much guarantee the screen blanking is due to HDCP issues. I can also possibly help with that, depending on your hardware setup. What make/model monitor(s) are exhibiting the problem? What resolution are you running? What connection type (vga or dvi or HDMI or displayport or thunderbolt 3 or...)? Lastly, do you have any other special equipment in the video hardware chain (kvm, edid copier, hdmi amplifier, video distribution box/splitter, video capture device, etc.)?

I went through the same issue but worse, and after a pile of research verified and fixed the issue. I might be able to help you too, but I need ALL of the above questions answered first.
 

frankiee

macrumors regular
May 31, 2008
198
94
Yeah I think thomast is probably right. I payed closed attention again, and I still get longer periods of black screen (sometimes up to 4-5 seconds) when booting up in either bootcamp OR macOS. It apparently happens when the OS is switching to the final resolution. While sometimes it feels uneasy to have a black screen for longer time, I think this is normal and nothing to worry about. Also, make sure the cable you use works correctly. For instance I had a HDMI first (with an alledegly high quality cable), and had totally washed out colors, probably due to limited RGB range. So the cable also might play a role with the negotiation between GPU and Monitor. Now settled for a USB-C connection which works fine (and saves me the additional USB cable for the monitor hub). Also, if you connect your monitor via thunderbolt dock, there might be a delay when it comes to showing the boot screen, so a direct connection to the MP is imho preferrable.
 

LeonPro

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2002
933
510
After a sleep, the screen blanking happens to mine as well and I thought this was normal as it was adjusting resolutions between monitors connected. It's very annoying and I thought the Mac and it's video card can handle this faster. Sigh.
 

choreo

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 10, 2008
910
357
Midland, TX
I can pretty much guarantee the screen blanking is due to HDCP issues. I can also possibly help with that, depending on your hardware setup. What make/model monitor(s) are exhibiting the problem? What resolution are you running? What connection type (vga or dvi or HDMI or displayport or thunderbolt 3 or...)? Lastly, do you have any other special equipment in the video hardware chain (kvm, edid copier, hdmi amplifier, video distribution box/splitter, video capture device, etc.)?

I went through the same issue but worse, and after a pile of research verified and fixed the issue. I might be able to help you too, but I need ALL of the above questions answered first.

MONITORS:
NEC PA271 27" (Main Monitor) connected via DisplayPort 1.4 [2560x1440]
NEC PA271 27" (Left Monitor) connected via DisplayPort 1.4 [2560x1440]
NEC PA272W 27" connected via DisplayPort 1.4 [2560x1440]

CABLES (all 3 cables identical):
Monoprice Bidirectional USB Type-C to DisplayPort Cable - 4K@60Hz, Black, 6ft

No special equipment. All Monitors connected to W5700X Video Card TB3 Ports.

The "blinking" I experience is not a big inconvenience, just wonder if it indicates another issue. The black/blinking screens only take 2-3 seconds usually (like it is loading ColorSync custom profiles, etc.). My big issue is the computer logging out 1-2 times a day while I am trying to work usually; however, last night I experienced my first auto-logout during "sleep" apparently. When I tried to wake up the machine this morning, I got the login screen followed by the warning dialog again...

ScreenFreeze.png
 

thomast0001

macrumors member
Dec 29, 2019
90
62
Yeah I think thomast is probably right. I payed closed attention again, and I still get longer periods of black screen (sometimes up to 4-5 seconds) when booting up in either bootcamp OR macOS. It apparently happens when the OS is switching to the final resolution. While sometimes it feels uneasy to have a black screen for longer time, I think this is normal and nothing to worry about. Also, make sure the cable you use works correctly. For instance I had a HDMI first (with an alledegly high quality cable), and had totally washed out colors, probably due to limited RGB range. So the cable also might play a role with the negotiation between GPU and Monitor. Now settled for a USB-C connection which works fine (and saves me the additional USB cable for the monitor hub). Also, if you connect your monitor via thunderbolt dock, there might be a delay when it comes to showing the boot screen, so a direct connection to the MP is imho preferrable.
A black screen during booting may or may not be "normal", depending on the circumstances, but I agree it isn't something to be too concerned about. On the other hand, the washed out colors are likely due to EDID transfer issues. FYI, EDID and HDCP communications are both done over the same DDC (I2C) lines. As background, I2C was never intended for "long" runs. It is designed for short-range inter-chip communications. It has termination and capacitance sensitivities that render it inappropriate for HDMI. That's a fundamental design flaw, and has caused a world of hurt for many many people (myself included).

When the EDID information doesn't make it from the display to the computer intact, either due to bad or too long cables, marginally "compliant" equipment, timing issues, etc., you can end up with display problems, including washed out colors. Switching to USB-C could easily "fix'' that since you are then using a different chipset and different "wiring".

Oh, and when HDCP information doesn't make it through the communication chain as expected, you get the annoying flashing/blanking issues, or no image at all. This is because HDCP has deadline timers and retries, with equipment handling the various edge cases differently. And I2C has collision issues since only 2 wires are used for communicating in both directions. You can imagine all the pain THAT causes! Equipment basically gets into line assert fighting issues, influenced by chaotic timing caused by line capacitance, termination variances, retry variances, timeout variances, etc.

Honestly, I'm surprised it works as well as it does. In my case it didn't. I "fixed" the problem with an HDCP bypass/stripper. I now have perfectly stable video. I couldn't be happier! :)
[automerge]1595451228[/automerge]
After a sleep, the screen blanking happens to mine as well and I thought this was normal as it was adjusting resolutions between monitors connected. It's very annoying and I thought the Mac and it's video card can handle this faster. Sigh.
When you say blanking, do you mean it just goes black, and then comes back, or does it go into a blanking conniption fit (i.e. more than one blanking event separated by say a couple of seconds)? If the latter, you've got HDCP issues. Note that even if it's just one blanking event, it's likely due to HDCP negotiations. I've learned to hate and despise HDCP from all the trouble it has caused me. Again, as mentioned in my previous response, I "fixed" the problem by stripping out HDCP. You might consider doing the same thing if you are using HDMI or DVI. If you are using USB-C, DisplayPort, or VGA, then a stripper probably won't help.
 
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thomast0001

macrumors member
Dec 29, 2019
90
62
MONITORS:
NEC PA271 27" (Main Monitor) connected via DisplayPort 1.4 [2560x1440]
NEC PA271 27" (Left Monitor) connected via DisplayPort 1.4 [2560x1440]
NEC PA272W 27" connected via DisplayPort 1.4 [2560x1440]

CABLES (all 3 cables identical):
Monoprice Bidirectional USB Type-C to DisplayPort Cable - 4K@60Hz, Black, 6ft

No special equipment. All Monitors connected to W5700X Video Card TB3 Ports.

The "blinking" I experience is not a big inconvenience, just wonder if it indicates another issue. The black/blinking screens only take 2-3 seconds usually (like it is loading ColorSync custom profiles, etc.). My big issue is the computer logging out 1-2 times a day while I am trying to work usually; however, last night I experienced my first auto-logout during "sleep" apparently. When I tried to wake up the machine this morning, I got the login screen followed by the warning dialog again...

View attachment 936419
Ok, so you are using DisplayPort. If they only blank once then it sounds like it isn't the HDCP issues I've described. Unfortunately USB-C (Thunderbolt 3) and DisplayPort connections can take a while to negotiate I think. (I've looked for DisplayPort EDID copiers, but they seem to be quite rare, plus I don't have experience with them so don't know if they'd help.). As for logging out and your screen shot, you've got applications crashing. There are so many reasons that can happen that you'll have to step through the debug process. Quick question: Do you have any external storage hooked up? If so, do the problems go away when it is removed?

Other than that, the good news is it's happening reasonably often. (Yeah, that's good news, honestly.) Barring my above question, I'd start by stripping all non-standard hardware off the system to see if that influences the behavior. If it doesn't then I have a particular technique I've used for debugging such problems. You need a FRESH disk that you can initialize as a completely stock OS version (preferably internal). You boot from that with all other hardware removed (what you can anyway) and see if the system remains stable. You then start adding back hardware a piece at a time. You add back software a piece at a time. This can be tricky of course, but what you want to do is try to figure out if the problem is core hardware related, add-on software related, add-on hardware related, interactions between add-on software and add-on hardware, etc. Oh, and don't forget to start with just one monitor.

My system is set up with a third-party M.2 internal drive that I use as the boot drive. The stock Apple drive is unused. I only have it for the sole purpose of falling back on it if things fly South. That's why I stuck with just a 1TB drive (I did increase the size from the lowest configuration because that just seemed silly.). Unfortunately in my opinion I think in all computers (Apple or otherwise) it's a requirement to have a stable OS partition that can be used for system debugging. That's just the way it is.

In the end I wouldn't be surprised if the problems you're encountering are Adobe-related, but I don't want to jump to conclusions...
 
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LeonPro

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2002
933
510
When you say blanking, do you mean it just goes black, and then comes back, or does it go into a blanking conniption fit (i.e. more than one blanking event separated by say a couple of seconds)? If the latter, you've got HDCP issues. Note that even if it's just one blanking event, it's likely due to HDCP negotiations. I've learned to hate and despise HDCP from all the trouble it has caused me. Again, as mentioned in my previous response, I "fixed" the problem by stripping out HDCP. You might consider doing the same thing if you are using HDMI or DVI. If you are using USB-C, DisplayPort, or VGA, then a stripper probably won't help.

Sounds like HDCP negotiations especially as I use across three "monitors" from the XDR, LG, and iPad all connected via USB-C/Thunderbolt cable.
 
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