Still OK with Apple CSAM? Watch this video by Rob Braxman

[Moto68000]

Privacy expert Rob Braxman made a video about the danger of the new Apple CSAM scanning technology. Instead of normal photo hashes things are a little more advanced. They probably use AI photo hashes.. Watch the video to really understand the danger of CSAM scanning and find out what Apple does not tell you...

 

[Jayson A]

Privacy expert Rob Braxman made a video about the danger of the new Apple CSAM scanning technology. Instead of normal photo hashes things are a little more advanced. They probably use AI photo hashes.. Watch the video to really understand the danger of CSAM scanning and find out what Apple does not tell you...

Does the video also explain that the photos are checked again with another perceptual hash on apples server before going to human review?

 

[Apple_Robert]

I watched the 25 minute video. He doesn't strike me as an expert on this specific subject. He didn't offer up any real explanations (read: proof) of his position as to Apple not really doing what they claim they are going to be doing in iOS 15. He doesn't talk as someone who read the white papers as he kept saying he heard this, that, and the other. The video scores an F from me, as it did not accomplish any real goal outside of him pimping his products in the beginning.

What are his credentials?

 

[jdb8167]

I watched the 25 minute video. He doesn't strike me as an expert on this specific subject. He didn't offer up any real explanations (read: proof) of his position as to Apple not really doing what they claim they are going to be doing in iOS 15. He doesn't talk as someone who read the white papers as he kept saying he heard this, that, and the other. The video scores an F from me, as it did not accomplish any real goal outside of him pimping his products in the beginning.

What are his credentials?

He seems to be a conspiracy theorist that claims Apple is lying about only checking for known CSAM. That Apple is comparing new photos against the CSAM database not just known illegal images.

If you believe him, you should stop using Apple products immediately since they could be lying about everything they do.

 

[StumpyBloke]

Sick to death of all this crap and miss-information! Wish I could automatically block all CSAM threads from appearing in my feed!

 

[Moto68000]

Sick to death of all this crap and miss-information! Wish I could automatically block all CSAM threads from appearing in my feed!

well, don't click and read them. It's that easy, no need to act all dramatic about it..

 

[StumpyBloke]

well, don't click and read them. It's that easy, no need to act all dramatic about it..

Great post. Well done.

 

[Jayson A]

I'm still okay with it

 

[Feyl]

Sick to death of all this crap and miss-information!

These days everything people don't like is labeled as miss-information. Do you have proof that the technology will not be abused?

 

[Jayson A]

These days everything people don't like is labeled as miss-information. Do you have proof that the technology will not be abused?

Do you have proof that it will?

 

[twinlight]

I don’t think Apple themselves will miss use it.
Abso-f**king-lutely will someone try and miss use it. Security researchers and hackers will try and probably succeed eventually. States will more than probably try to get hashes into the system.

The biggest problem is maybe that this is running on device versus on their servers like everyone else’s solutions.

 

[Jayson A]

I don’t think Apple themselves will miss use it.
Abso-f**king-lutely will someone try and miss use it. Security researchers and hackers will try and probably succeed eventually. States will more than probably try to get hashes into the system.

The biggest problem is maybe that this is running on device versus on their servers like everyone else’s solutions.

It's actually only partially on device. This way they don't actually see any of your photos until a threshold of 30 matches are found, and then those 30 matches are decrypted and sent through another on-server hashing system to weed out any false positives, then they review the suspected CSAM images with humans.

 

[StumpyBloke]

These days everything people don't like is labeled as miss-information. Do you have proof that the technology will not be abused?

Half of what’s going on about this is misinformation. You know it and I know it. That’s completely independent of whether these new systems will be misused or not.

 

[Feyl]

Do you have proof that it will?

Apple's behavior in the past and history in general are good enough to tell us it will. Almost 100% probability. And as I asked, do you have any evidence it won't?

 

[Jayson A]

Almost 100% probability.

This isn't proof. It's just your guess.

 

[Feyl]

Half of what’s going on about this is misinformation. You know it and I know it. That’s completely independent of whether these new systems will be misused or not.

If you think it's misinformation if people are cautious about this, then that's wrong.

 

[antiprotest]

So much misinformation going on. People are misinformed that this is safe and OK.

 

[StumpyBloke]

If you think it's misinformation if people are cautious about this, then that's wrong.

Funny how you interpret what I said. Nothing to do with being cautious. The amount of ******** (read: lies) about this on here, and the web, is mental. Back door this, scanning all your stuff that…garbage.

If people want to be concerned about the real actual issues then that’s separate and one I do understand but am not concerned about myself.

 

[Jayson A]

So much misinformation going on. People are misinformed that this is safe and OK.

With all the checks and safeguards, I think it is safe. How am I misinformed?

 

[Mr. Awesome]

So much misinformation going on. People are misinformed that this is safe and OK.

After looking into the details of it and learning as much as I can about the system, I know it’s safe. It’s designed to do one thing and one thing only, and there are numerous safeguards in place to ensure it’s only used for that one thing.

 

[Feyl]

Funny how you interpret what I said. Nothing to do with being cautious. The amount of ******** (read: lies) about this on here, and the web, is mental. Back door this, scanning all your stuff that…garbage.

If people want to be concerned about the real actual issues then that’s separate and one I do understand but am not concerned about myself.

How can you interpret valid doubts of this technology as lies is beyond my belief. Do you believe anything misledia tell you too? You're incredibly naive, mate. Or don't want to accept the truth because you love Apple so much. What are the actual real issues?

 

[Feyl]

This isn't proof. It's just your guess.

As much as your guess that this won't be bad.

 

[StumpyBloke]

How can you interpret valid doubts of this technology as lies is beyond my belief. Do you believe anything misledia tell you too? You're incredibly naive, mate. Or don't want to accept the truth because you love Apple so much. What are the actual real issues?

And there you go again, putting your own interpretation on plain English. This is really boring. I have not once said valid doubts are lies, re-read what I said before you start coming out with your own rhetoric to fit your own conspiracy theory agenda.

You seem to be of the opinion that we are absolutely guaranteed to have this system used and abused by Apple, governments, and everybody else that could possibly do so. And I can no longer be bothered with this. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I couldn’t agree with you less.

Am I naive? No I don’t think so. But I am rational, grown-up and not playing the victim.

#NoFurtherComment

 

[dcp10]

To be honest I’m not 100% ok with this yet, but the more I learn, I’m closer to being there

A question for those who aren’t, what should Apple do? Nothing? As it stands now they’re the only major service that isn’t checking in some fashion. Should Apple just accept being a safe harbor, reputation be dammed

Should they check server side, even if that means giving up the possibility of finally providing E2E in iCloud?

Could other nations demand Apple modify iOS to fit their wishes? Perhaps, but surely researchers in a country like China are aware of the possibility so they could have made these demands regardless if Apple ever thought of it. Apple doesn’t stand alone here, there are political and legal factors in play as well.

Lastly, it bears repeating, no one opposed has to use it. Turn off photos library, use a different service to store your(still checked) pictures and still continue using the rest of iCloud. Same as now.

I should add these conversations are best reason it won’t be abused. We live a free and open society so even if Apple tried to modify the system, or never even mentioned in the first place it would be revealed eventually.

 

[Feyl]

And there you go again, putting your own interpretation on plain English. This is really boring. I have not once said valid doubts are lies, re-read what I said before you start coming out with your own rhetoric to fit your own conspiracy theory agenda.

You seem to be of the opinion that we are absolutely guaranteed to have this system used and abused by Apple, governments, and everybody else that could possibly do so. And I can no longer be bothered with this. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I couldn’t agree with you less.

Am I naive? No I don’t think so. But I am rational, grown-up and not playing the victim.

#NoFurtherComment

Your attitude definitiely says that you have no argument to go along further so you label me as a conspiracy theorist. That’s classic. I read what you said carefully. You literally said that people thinking CSAM is some kind of backdoor, etc. is a lie. How can you say that if you can’t prove otherwise or see into the future?

Look, I’m not gonna try to prove something to you. I mean it well and I’m not mean as you are. Just keep using whatever Apple wants you to use, but I’m gonna think twice before I use something. That’s the basis of my argument.