Stolen iPhone - Criminals have full control and Apple cannot help!

[arian71]

If you had a physical SIM in the device, I think they take the SIM out, use the ICCID number on the SIM (all SIM cards have this number to be identified when added to an account), and they get buddies working at carriers to look up the account associated with that number, they can then harass over text messages.

I assume you have a PIN set if you use a physical SIM, yes? Otherwise they don’t need to do squat, they just pop it out and get the phone number in another phone.

But if you had an eSIM only, the hilarious thing is there is no number to look up, they can’t even message their threats, unless you put a message when you enabled Lost mode including a phone number or email (People usually do this thinking an honest person will call and give your phone back). Not sure if you put a number or email to call or text.

Correct that they can’t use your number at all when you’ve transferred your SIM (physical or eSIM, doesn’t matter).

no i don't have PIN set on that phone so thats easy for them then to get my number and as you said wait for them bombarding me with text messagges.. was thinking may be a slim chance negotiating give them some money to get my phone back ? or just forget about the device remove it from my apple id but then unsure what is the gain here to remove it or not both cases they cant access my apple ID ?
the other thing for how long my lost phone will stay on find my app map on my macbook ?
thanks again

 

[jaytv111]

no i don't have PIN set on that phone so thats easy for them then to get my number and as you said wait for them bombarding me with text messagges.. was thinking may be a slim chance negotiating give them some money to get my phone back ? or just forget about the device remove it from my apple id but then unsure what is the gain here to remove it or not both cases they cant access my apple ID ?
the other thing for how long my lost phone will stay on find my app map on my macbook ?
thanks again

Well that was bad (to not have a PIN). Don’t do that. You could lose everything, they can take over your Apple ID, take over your online accounts, etc. But maybe they just want to sell your phone for money.

If you negotiate they could string you along and just take your money and give you nothing. If you offer them money your best bet is to get some cash together, and meet them in a public place, in full view of the public so they don’t try to rob you or something. They would probably try to get you to pay what they could get for the phone by selling, maybe more since you’re a motivated buyer. But then again as I said it’s usually out of the country and they don’t even know who has it, they send it to someone else for money.

They can’t access your Apple ID unless they reset the password with your phone number since you say you didn’t use a SIM PIN. But once you transfer the SIM, it’s not an option.

The benefit to taking it off your account is not having a dead device on your account. The drawback is not being able to frustrate thieves. Your call.

The lost phone can stay on Find My for years and years, it‘s until you remove it. But it’s probably recycled by then or parts harvested (or they possibly have a hack to take off your iCloud account by then, and then they sell it for money).

 

[TechnoMonk]

no i don't have PIN set on that phone so thats easy for them then to get my number and as you said wait for them bombarding me with text messagges.. was thinking may be a slim chance negotiating give them some money to get my phone back ? or just forget about the device remove it from my apple id but then unsure what is the gain here to remove it or not both cases they cant access my apple ID ?
the other thing for how long my lost phone will stay on find my app map on my macbook ?
thanks again

There were cases where the crooks asked money for exchange and took the money and ran away. Your phone will probably chopped for parts, sold to some third party repair shop. I wouldn’t take the phone off your account just yet.

 

[arian71]

There were cases where the crooks asked money for exchange and took the money and ran away. Your phone will probably chopped for parts, sold to some third party repair shop. I wouldn’t take the phone off your account just yet.

my phone is still showing at the same address since was stolen 2 days . lock mode and erase pending
Yes will keep it on my account, prefer it being sold for parts than a fully functional phone.

 

[laptech]

my phone is still showing at the same address since was stolen 2 days . lock mode and erase pending
Yes will keep it on my account, prefer it being sold for parts than a fully functional phone.

If the device is still showing up at the same location then inform the police because it could be a gang of thieves that go around stealing phones. If the police do nothing then go through the complaints system. Yes nothing may get done but the complaint will be on file and will thus get registered against the police and with the police constantly having to provide good performance checks having complaints against them does not look good.

 

[arian71]

If the device is still showing up at the same location then inform the police because it could be a gang of thieves that go around stealing phones. If the police do nothing then go through the complaints system. Yes nothing may get done but the complaint will be on file and will thus get registered against the police and with the police constantly having to provide good performance checks having complaints against them does not look good.

the thing is find my device is not very accurate.. i live in number 33 and my macbook is showing number 37 sometimes 35. when i looked on street view when my stolen phone is located is showing a house then next a building of flats so I don't know how police will react to this situation.
still will call them , though they couldn't be bothered with CCTV footage where i was robbed at the gates of a business park with dozen of cameras

 

[laptech]

the thing is find my device is not very accurate.. i live in number 33 and my macbook is showing number 37 sometimes 35. when i looked on street view when my stolen phone is located is showing a house then next a building of flats so I don't know how police will react to this situation.
still will call them , though they couldn't be bothered with CCTV footage where i was robbed at the gates of a business park with dozen of cameras

The police will always find excuses not to do their job properly. The police are there to uphold the law, Theft is against the law and thus they should react. It could a lone thief or a gang of thieves who have been doing this for some time. If the police just brush you off again then make an official complaint. You can state that the police failed to look at CCTV and failed to follow up when it was reported to them where the location of the device is (if they do not bother that is).

The police hate complaints because at the end of the year when performance figures are to be published, complaints are black marks against the police which lowers their performance score and low scores means investigations by government. So whilst people may think making a complaint is pointless, they do have an effect if enough people complain.

 

[arian71]

the other thing is
the phone was bought on Giffgaff and when told them my phone is stolen they responded :
We can only blacklist the phone if it was used on the network in that last 30 days.
I bought the phone and getting their sim was forced optional from their side , i used for a day their sim and thats it .
I am with Lebara on monthly contract

 

[laptech]

the other thing is
the phone was bought on Giffgaff and when told them my phone is stolen they responded :
We can only blacklist the phone if it was used on the network in that last 30 days.
I bought the phone and getting their sim was forced optional from their side , i used for a day their sim and thats it .
I am with Lebara on monthly contract

And that is why mobile phones are still able to be used on network carriers because they make excuses for not blocking the imei/serial number of the phone due to 'the criteria did not meet internal company policy'

 

[LuisNeto]

But it is still a balance between security and convenience — there will be “winners” and “losers”.

It's a balance, but the way it currently works in which your Apple ID account password can be changed and you can get locked out of the account by a criminal, because all that he/she needs is the Passcode, is not acceptable.

What is the advantage of this being possible? For the benefit of those people who can't properly manage their Apple ID password, so that if they need to be able to change the password they can just use the iPhone passcode?

At least, Apple should give each user the option to choose whether they want the Apple ID password to be changed using the Passcode or require more, such as the password.
Or even give users the option to specify that it can only be changed if they confirm using another Apple device.

If better security comes at the cost of some users being permanently being locked out because they can't get past a second layer to reset their password then so be it. It's the users responsibility to keep track of their account passwords.

Totally agree!

 

[Reason077]

Seems to me like London has big Law and Order problem.

Well, yes and no. There is a fair bit of petty crime. Shoplifting, pick-pocketing, phone snatching. But overall, London is a safe city and violent crime is pretty rare - murder rates, for example, are far higher in most American cities. Chicago, for example, has about 16X more homicides per capita than London. Detroit and Baltimore even more!

 

[I7guy]

It's a balance, but the way it currently works in which your Apple ID account password can be changed and you can get locked out of the account by a criminal, because all that he/she needs is the Passcode, is not acceptable.

It’s a balance between convenience and security. Just being careful lowers the overall risk dramatically.

What is the advantage of this being possible? For the benefit of those people who can't properly manage their Apple ID password, so that if they need to be able to change the password they can just use the iPhone passcode?

Yes. Probably millions and millions.

At least, Apple should give each user the option to choose whether they want the Apple ID password to be changed using the Passcode or require more, such as the password.
Or even give users the option to specify that it can only be changed if they confirm using another Apple device.

Maybe they will. Maybe iOS 17 has additional options.

Totally agree!

 

[LuisNeto]

Just being careful lowers the overall risk dramatically.

Yes, being careful is common sense. But you can be careful and still end up being victim of this.
This is happening not just via shoulder surfing, but also by being muffed at knifepoint.

Yes. Probably millions and millions.

You're just throwing a figure there. Nevertheless, regardless of how many people that is in reality, my point remains.
People should manage their Apple ID password properly.
If they can't, it's not fair that the downside ends up being that all iPhone users, including those that manage their password responsibly, end up being at risk due to Apple having implemented a fragile security system in iOS.

 

[I7guy]

Yes, being careful is common sense. But you can be careful and still end up being victim of this.
This is happening not just via shoulder surfing, but also by being muffed at knifepoint.


You're just throwing a figure there. Nevertheless, regardless of how many people that is in reality, my point remains.
People should manage their Apple ID password properly.
If they can't, it's not fair that the downside ends up being that all iPhone users, including those that manage their password responsibly, end up being at risk due to Apple having implemented a fragile security system in iOS.

All the security in the world won’t save you from being threatened with your life. You’ll give up whatever you have to save your life regardless of the phone type.

There are two billion iPhones out there. Apple designed this system for the masses. And nobody is making a phone so impenetrable is not usable. Apple doesn’t design for the exception.

It’s a lousy thing that happens, if it happens but it can happen to anybody regardless of the phone o/s. But it’s just another thing to add to the pile of lousy things happen in a digital world.

That said we haven’t seen what apple will do to make this harder for the thief but not more difficult for the person who wants to or needs to change their password.

 

[macfacts]

Step 1. Link your apple id with a photo of a government issued ID.
Step 2. Goto an apple store, show ID to have password reset.
Why can't apple do this.

 

[dk001]

You hear all kinds of things pro and con to this and what Apple should and should not do.
Like it or not, Apple has become a bank, money, digital id, memories, work.
Why is its’ security less than any of my banks?

Later!

 

[Shirasaki]

Step 1. Link your apple id with a photo of a government issued ID.
Step 2. Goto an apple store, show ID to have password reset.
Why can't apple do this.

Linking government ID with Apple ID means Apple could potentially hold information about your true identity indefinitely, and I’m not comfortable with that. The weak link here is device passcode does literally everything, including resetting Apple ID password. Unless Apple can find equivalent passcode substitute, things like this will happen again.

Careful what you wishes for.

You hear all kinds of things pro and con to this and what Apple should and should not do.
Like it or not, Apple has become a bank, money, digital id, memories, work.
Why is its’ security less than any of my banks?

Later!

Well, because Apple doesn’t suffer the same level of regulation as bank does, I guess. And ultimately for them, a handful of unlucky customer being exploited by their weak security system really won’t show up in their charts anyhow, meaning they just don’t have any incentive to do better. Even high profile breach won’t move the needle.

Apple should be regulated far more than what they do today, basically, government and organizations Should heavily dictate how they operate in every area they step into. Unfortunately, this will not happen because USA.

 

[I7guy]

Step 1. Link your apple id with a photo of a government issued ID.
Step 2. Goto an apple store, show ID to have password reset.
Why can't apple do this.

So now apple will have custody of potentially fraudulent ids? That scheme when exposed, will certainly not harm apple. No one said ever.

You hear all kinds of things pro and con to this and what Apple should and should not do.
Like it or not, Apple has become a bank, money, digital id, memories, work.
Why is its’ security less than any of my banks?

Later!

Apple is not a bank. In the same way you are not a bank because you carry around a debit card. Nor are the cell phones companies banks because through them you can call your bank. The security of an apple iPhone is actually better than banks. Ask people who are held up at gunpoint for the debit card and pin. Or thieves who hacked into various banks networks stealing millions. Or phony checks.

At least with an iPhone you and your phone can be protected to varying levels depending on how functionality you want to give up as it can be used as a dumb phone - but that defeats the purpose.

Bottom line, anyone with a gun to your head the rational person will give up everything no matter the phone.

 

[boswald]

I just stumbled upon this thread and I must say I truly feel for you. I hope you get everything sorted out and the criminal(s) are brought to justice.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Step 1. Link your apple id with a photo of a government issued ID.
Step 2. Goto an apple store, show ID to have password reset.
Why can't apple do this.

Apple employees are not trained to identify fake ids. I don’t think Apple wants to assume the liability.

 

[dk001]

So now apple will have custody of potentially fraudulent ids? That scheme when exposed, will certainly not harm apple. No one said ever.

Apple is not a bank. In the same way you are not a bank because you carry around a debit card. Nor are the cell phones companies banks because through them you can call your bank. The security of an apple iPhone is actually better than banks. Ask people who are held up at gunpoint for the debit card and pin. Or thieves who hacked into various banks networks stealing millions. Or phony checks.

At least with an iPhone you and your phone can be protected to varying levels depending on how functionality you want to give up as it can be used as a dumb phone - but that defeats the purpose.

Bottom line, anyone with a gun to your head the rational person will give up everything no matter the phone.

Yet we have the Apple Wallet, Apple Credit Card, Apple Savings, Apple Pay, etc… and the security around these is less than any of my financial institutions.

Forget the shoulder surfer, the camera spy, the mugger, the guy with the gun. The weakness in the current system is the Apple passcode. It is not a hard fix and would go a decent way to expounding on their marketing clain about security and privacy.

 

[I7guy]

Yet we have the Apple Wallet, Apple Credit Card, Apple Savings, Apple Pay, etc… and the security around these is less than any of my financial institutions.

Not really. Experian got hacked. Years ago a tidy sum of money was taken from Citibank. When a device passcode is used to change the Apple ID password. The cards in the wallet are invalidated. All my financial apps that depend on Face ID have to be reenrolled with the user logon.

It’s true unsecured apps and iCloud can ge gotten at, buts it’s a personal decision how far one wants to “protect” themselves. And not have mail and iCloud on the phone.

Forget the shoulder surfer, the camera spy, the mugger, the guy with the gun. The weakness in the current system is the Apple passcode.

If we forget all of that I agree it’s a theoretical weakness because a security hole that’s difficult to get to that requires physical access and some other knowledge can’t scale.

It is not a hard fix and would go a decent way to expounding on their marketing clain about security and privacy.

So if a vulnerability exists: security score := security score -1? The iPhone is fairly secure even if it’s ripped from your hand. Like your atm pin keep your passcode safe.

 

[LuisNeto]

So if a vulnerability exists: security score := security score -1? The iPhone is fairly secure even if it’s ripped from your hand. Like your atm pin keep your passcode safe.

And it would be even more secure if Apple made a change in iOS to prevent the iCloud password from being changed just by using the Passcode.
As @dk001 wrote, it's not a hard fix.

So, what's your point?

 

[I7guy]

And it would be even more secure if Apple made a change in iOS to prevent the iCloud password from being changed just by using the Passcode.
As @dk001 wrote, it's not a hard fix.

So, what's your point?

The iPhone is fairly secure and strikes a compromise between security and good user experience.

I guess we’ll just go round and round on this. All good. Not everybody has to agree.

 

[LuisNeto]

I guess we’ll just go round and round on this. All good. Not everybody has to agree.

We agree on that.