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edesignuk said:
None of that changes the fact that people who are just curious will be put off by an increased price point, and that is the point here.

People who are just curious won't know what the previous price point was...

.......Apple have effectively discontinued the very low end Mac, perhaps it will reappear at some point minus the Airport etc. The £449 mini replaces the £429 mini so the price increase is £20.
 
MacSA said:
.......Apple have effectively discontinued the very low end Mac, perhaps it will reappear at some point minus the Airport etc. The £449 mini replaces the £429 mini so the price increase is £20.
I can't understand your logic here, and I'm not even going to bother arguing :rolleyes: So be it.
 
uhmmmmmmm what exactly is so hard to understand? Perhaps you didnt notice there are now two configurations of Mini where as before there were three. :rolleyes:
 
Josh
And what would justify such a remark?

If all one cares about is the price, then fine buy a PC. But to me the price for hassle free computing is priceless. I'll pay for quality, not just when buying computers but anything.

That's the problem with Mac users. They don't mind paying arm and leg for shiny buttons and window shadows on a crippled machine.

Windows and OS X cost the same, in many instances OS X is more expensive.

Besides, since when are all non-Mac users Windows users? A powerful machine appeals to Linux/Unix and users of other OS's as well.

I thought we were discussing home users and switchers, not Linux/Unix users. That is a very small percentage of home user market. What do you mean by shiny buttons and crippled machine? And how does OS X cost more? I see by your sig--Dual-Core 2.0ghz/2.5gb/160gb--you own a Mac, so is it expensive in terms of use? How much time and software is devoted to protecting it from all the various 'wares and viruses? On a PC, that is the first thing you have to buy, some anti-whatever software. Then it is always running, the constant updating of virus definitions (time wasted), the time to do anything on a PC seems too long for me. I know, at work I was given a Gateway 500SE to use for one client, they only use PCs and PageMaker (gag). Well as a non-PC user, it took me 4 days to get that damn computer up and running. I finally called a PC tech guy in, because I couldn't figure how to install the drivers. Then it took another day just install and configure the software programs. Compared to my Mac experiences of setup, about 2 hours to install OS,related updates and software.
 
:)...wow, we are really getting of the point of the OP

Dane D. said:
If all one cares about is the price, then fine buy a PC. But to me the price for hassle free computing is priceless. I'll pay for quality, not just when buying computers but anything.

Again, the OP stated that this is a switcher machine. I am a switcher and still a very new Mac user (1 day) :) . Switchers (in my experience - only know 4) initially dont know that Macs are "hassle free" and "priceless". Our computer experience thus far has been nothing but hassles (or at least mine has) and we are simply looking for a "new" experience and really dont know what to expect.

That being said, I (as most switchers that I know - again 4) do consider price important. $499 makes us say hmmm, ill give it a try. $599 make us say, maybe ill just stick with what I have as thats a lot to pay for a "new" experience.

I really like the Mac mini - its a cool box and I can understand the price increase. But the bottom line is that if this box is marketed as a "switcher machine", many potential switchers will be put off by the price point (imo). If this is being marketed as an entertainment hub, then it hit the mark with very good speed and some great functionality (regardless of the price point).

For the record I bought a MBP because I have a tendency to just jump in feet first. Plus my T42 has really been getting on my nerves :).
 
Dane D. said:
I thought we were discussing home users and switchers, not Linux/Unix users. That is a very small percentage of home user market. What do you mean by shiny buttons and crippled machine? And how does OS X cost more?

All true but TBH you need to have a low base price... Sure the Mac Mini is priced ok against the competition and because apple are starting a transition it can't be too **** in speed so I see why they've priced it as they have.

BUT Cheap PC users won't care about the speed what apple needs to do to get them to switch is put a slow processor but call it a Celeron M 3000+ (1.5Ghz) (or whatever the equivalent Pentium 4 is like AMD), they need to take out the Gigabit Ethernet (who cares unless you're a power user), the digital audio out and audio in(same) and remove the bluetooth and airport express, and put a standard 3.5" Hard drive in (say 80GB). They also only need 512MB RAM but they *need* an office suite (even if it's NeoOffice it doesn't matter as long as it's preinstalled), and throw a modem in too. If they can do that for £300 then people may consider it over a Dell. It would need to be bigger though to fit this stuff in. Apple would also need to release a bluetooth/airport USB dongle for wireless to be added later. Also include Firefox and some software to copy files from My Documents/ bookmarks and email from Internet Explorer (link it up with an included network cable, or even better a USB to network cable) also allow people to buy a USB to Standard PC Keyboard/Mouse cable for about £5. They also need to get a deal to sell some cheap monitors with it too...

Cheap PC users would be impressed that they can display photos/video on their £300 PC, and that it still worked after 1 year, which it would so they'd be sorted. It doesn't matter that the setup isn't beautiful (it wouldn't be) but who cares at this price...
 
Dane D. said:
Josh


If all one cares about is the price, then fine buy a PC. But to me the price for hassle free computing is priceless. I'll pay for quality, not just when buying computers but anything.



I thought we were discussing home users and switchers, not Linux/Unix users. That is a very small percentage of home user market. What do you mean by shiny buttons and crippled machine? And how does OS X cost more? I see by your sig--Dual-Core 2.0ghz/2.5gb/160gb--you own a Mac, so is it expensive in terms of use? How much time and software is devoted to protecting it from all the various 'wares and viruses? On a PC, that is the first thing you have to buy, some anti-whatever software. Then it is always running, the constant updating of virus definitions (time wasted), the time to do anything on a PC seems too long for me. I know, at work I was given a Gateway 500SE to use for one client, they only use PCs and PageMaker (gag). Well as a non-PC user, it took me 4 days to get that damn computer up and running. I finally called a PC tech guy in, because I couldn't figure how to install the drivers. Then it took another day just install and configure the software programs. Compared to my Mac experiences of setup, about 2 hours to install OS,related updates and software.


dude how old was this pc? XP requires few drivers to be manually entered so unless you were installing some old/very new hardware I have no idea how it could take you so long. granted, OSX is easier for the most part but Windows is not nearly as bad as mac fanatics make it out to be. I use both because both have their upsides. oh, and virus scanners update automatically in the background so you dont have to do anything, no wasted time. Actually, i have had more problems with my mac, trying to get things to work on it (movie files, spreadsheets, etc) or getting my stupid samsung laser printer to work with it, than i have ever had on a pc, viruses and all. I love my mac but windows isnt that bad, especially for the cheap prices of PC's.
 
QCassidy352 said:
but one problem is that it's not that inexpensive. $600 for the base model + tax, + RAM upgrade (because a core solo with 512 RAM and rosetta is going to be absolutely painful and isn't going to convince anyone that macs are much fun), and we're in the $750 range. That's not expensive, but it's not cheap if you're trying to lure switchers with this machine.

keep in mind thats 699 canadian, which is well over 800 dollars after tax. im very upset at the price, however that low end mac mini will be mine.. 300$ to save. :(
 
direzz said:
keep in mind thats 699 canadian, which is well over 800 dollars after tax. im very upset at the price, however that low end mac mini will be mine.. 300$ to save. :(

I know! and the educational discount in canada is less than 100 bucks!! on my pb it was 250! :(
 
As someone who switched back in October, I can vouch for the idea that price does come into play as one factor -- maybe not the only or the key factor, but definitely an important factor -- when making the choice of which Mac to buy. I looked at them all and wavered back-and-forth between the choices (couldn't afford a PM, so that was ruled out from the get-go): the Mac Mini, an iBook, a Powerbook or an iMac. I kept thinking that maybe I should start out with the Mac Mini until I saw whether or not I was going to like using a Mac, but then when I did the math realized that by the time i bought a new monitor, keyboard and mouse for it that this was coming close to the iMac in cost. I had a monitor, keyboard and mouse already, yes, but they were still connected to the PC that I was going to need to use for a little longer at least through the transferring of files stage. I wasn't ready to "let go" of that PC yet, especially when I hadn't used a Mac for any amount of time to know whether or not I really would like it.

Also I realized when looking at the stats of the models available back then that the Mac Mini was not going to be adequate for what I'd be doing, which includes running Photoshop. I loved the form factor and the size of the Mac Mini but when it came down to actual function I knew that it wouldn't do what I needed. The more powerful iMac, on the other hand, would definitely fit the bill. I kept looking at the iMac again and again but still couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger -- until the new iSight versions were announced and I realized that the prices on the Rev B versions would be knocked down. I went to the Apple store that evening and and soon was bringing home the box with my new iMac....telling myself that, well, if I didn't like it, I could always return it....

Later, having fallen madly in love with my iMac, I bought a PB for mobility, and this time I didn't worry about whether or not I'd like it -- I already knew that I very much enjoy working on a Mac.

So that's how the thinking process went for me in the early exploratory stage prior to my actual purchase and use of my iMac....

Yes, when you're in the process of switching it takes a while to realize just how different and how much more pleasant using a Mac is compared to using a Windows PC. When I got home with my new iMac that first night I anticipated that I'd be up all night wrestling with it as I set things up.... Well, turns out I WAS up much of the night, but not because I was having hassles setting up the new iMac -- instead, I was having fun with it! Amazing....
 
Show me a Dell with this form factor and those specs and then we will talk about price. The intel mini added tons of new features, a new processor, and it still gets trashed by the windooze crowd. BTW try to even get Bluetooth 2.0 in a windoze box, or start with one of your 399 boxes and start adding: dvd/cd burner, gig ethernet, bluetooth, faster hd, wireless card, video/audio out...see how far you get and what your price becomes.
 
With PC's, you get what you pay for (name brand ones, at least)...I hope the intel switch isn't going to do the same to Apple computers
 
have you seen this?

Anyone have seen Mac mini in Nes house? pretty cool for a housing? well i think this will work only for those who want to keep it simple and old school..

macmini_nes_3.jpg
macmini_nes_5.jpg
 
Dane D. said:
Josh


If all one cares about is the price, then fine buy a PC. But to me the price for hassle free computing is priceless. I'll pay for quality, not just when buying computers but anything.

The big bone that I have to pick with Apple is their product placements and market segmentation.

Let me tell you my story.

The computer that I would want to get right now, would be the Intel iMac 20", without the display, which unfortunately is not offered by Apple.

The other options I have would be the MacBook Pro, which I won't touch until at the very least the Merom revisions are released hopefully at the end of this year, and the Mac Mini. Seeing as to how there are no Intel Mac Pros available now (and that too, I will wait till Rev B at the very least), my only option is the Mini.

Nevertheless, not too pleased overall with the choices I've been offered, but at the very least the Duo seems to be quite a nifty machine on paper, and I expect it to be a placeholder machine until I feel I am getting sufficient value for my buck in a Merom MBP, and a Apple workstation with the kinks ironed out and hopefully tested by others to be capable of running Vista, at which point the Mini can then be retired to be either a small file server, or attached to a TV and serve as a "ah hem" video files player.

I have to admit that I'm pretty excited about this little bundle that is still on its way here to me in South Australia, but I can just as easily understand why someone else would pass up on this machine. The Mini Duo, in its stock configuration with a princely amount of ram (all 512mb of it!) and it's ludicrously fast Intel Integrated Graphics solution, costs a handsome sum of A$1069 at EDU pricing.

So this is Apple's answer to switchers who have their existing monitors and keyboards and mice, but get this.. Dell's answer to the Mini is a P4 box, a 19" LCD monitor, and obviously a keyboard and a mice, for a very attractive price of $999. You can argue all you want about quality and stuff, but Quanta makes the same $600 Dull laptops in the very same factory as your $2499 MBPs, many MR members here use Dull LCD monitors citing they are equivalent to Apple ACDs in terms of display quality at a fraction of the cost.

Windows XP costs like.. what.. $250 for a retail version? MacOS costs like.. $129 for an upgrade version. So how would this prole of a switcher be able to look at this balding man disinterestedly talking about this new little "Mac" computer, and the next moment s/he sees this Dell ad on TV with the trademark Intel chime, and decide to get the Mac?

Sure it comes with OSX, just like the Dell's retail price comes with Windows! You might counter with the argument that "OSX is better", but the prole will counter "oh yeah? Hundreds of millions of proles around the world can't be wrong, where are your numbers to say otherwise?"

Besides, Windows run right is probably just as good as OSX, I can keep a Windows box running cleanly for damned near indefinitely, so all that "OMFG Virus!!!" and "Spyware!!!" posts from Apple fanbois are just that... troll posts.

So, how can a prole justify the purchase of a Mac? S/he can't.

Besides, let's look at the Mini again. Ok, so it is all fine and dandy that Apple's engineers decided to fit in a small 2.5" hard drive. And the same with a optical drive, a laptop drive will go into it as well. Trouble is, they obviously aren't putting these expensive options in out of goodwill and charging the customer the pricing of their equivalents, they are being extravagent because YOU are paying for it!

So what if switcher Joe Heinz Sixpack decides "Urgh, looks are not important for me. This little computer looks like it is for *******! I just want a computer like.. ugh.. that one over there!" *points at Shuttle SFPC in the next store*

Unfortunately Apple doesn't offer that option.

As with my own experience, so I wanted a iMac 20"'s juice, without the integrated screen.

Unfortunately Apple doesn't offer that option, too.

I can foresee in a month's time when the Macbook is unveiled with integrated graphics hundreds of thousands of fanbois are going to cry. Really. What other options do they have?

Sorry but Apple doesn't offer that, too. Unfortunately.

The sad truth is when it comes to the hardware, if you want to run OSX you are pretty much limited by what Apple has to offer. I'm not saying Apple's offerings are lousy, but they just might not be tailored to your needs.

And likewise the PowerMac/Mac Pro can be infinitely tailored and customised to any needs, but they will deliberately squeeze 2 dual core processors in and price it like 5 times the price of a Dell desktop, so it is pretty much a moot point too.

It's a sad reality really, how you just have to be so confined by what Apple would offer, that makes people want to crack OSX.

The other sad reality? If Apple would offer options as numerous as Dell they'd probably do very well. People can happily buy their butt ugly Macs while the more sophisticated users can buy their nice shiny chiselled diamond dust coated Macs.

Ultimately most just do not wish to sacrifice their own choice as a consumer and their own money to help a company keep up with their corporation image, that's all.
 
seabass069 said:
Please can we all stop whinning about how disappointing the new Macmini is. The Macmini is about getting windows users to switch over to Mac. Most people have never even used a Mac. People see the Macmini is an inexpensive way to learn Mac and then they can decide if they really want to upgrade to a better Mac. Mac's aren't cheap and is a big investment. I was that way. I bought a Macmini at Best Buy and six months later I was ready for a more powerful Mac. I couldn't see the reason of spending a couple thousand dollars for a computer that I had never used before and was unsure if I would like it or not.

The Macmini is a great computer to learn from. Most people are not gamers or music/video composers. They like to surf the net, listen to music and take photos. People are getting more and more interested in Macs, because of the iPod. The Macmini gives the consumer an inexpensive way to learn what a real personal computer is. The Mac, IT JUST WORKS!!

aaaand, the switchers will want to play their casual games like Sims2 and Wolrd of Warcraft which is simply a mass phenomenon. With that GMA950 it's doubtful that will work out.
 
revfife said:
Show me a Dell with this form factor and those specs and then we will talk about price. The intel mini added tons of new features, a new processor, and it still gets trashed by the windooze crowd. BTW try to even get Bluetooth 2.0 in a windoze box, or start with one of your 399 boxes and start adding: dvd/cd burner, gig ethernet, bluetooth, faster hd, wireless card, video/audio out...see how far you get and what your price becomes.

Show me someone switching from a dell needing bluetooth, gig ethernet, wireless or dvd burning. The *need* factor on all of that is very low. If they come from a standard PC they'll have wired eithernet at 100mb, their peripherals aren't bluetooth and barely ever even burn cds.
But again, they'll likely play some games every now and then and with the 950 in the mini it's not looking that hot. Apart from that you can already install OSX on any selfbuilt junkbox with the right mainboard chipset.
 
sikkinixx:
dude how old was this pc? XP requires few drivers to be manually entered so unless you were installing some old/very new hardware I have no idea how it could take you so long.

It is a Gateway 500SE built in 2002. The reason it took so long was three device drivers (video, networking and digital audio were missing). The restoration discs that came with the computer were wrong, they were for ME not XP which is how the computer was bought. So blame Gateway for wrong discs. I went to my Mac, downloaded the drivers in question from Gateway. Burned to CD and tried to install. But I didn't know how, besides you ever try to read a 4bit color, 640x480 screen? The PC tech guy I called re-installed XP, installed the drivers and the rebooted--it worked. First question out of his mouth -- What anti-virus software do you want? I laughed, he didn't. I'm just happy with my Macs and what I can do with them.
 
Onizuka said:
600 bucks isn't ****. Sorry, but it's not. Even 800 bucks is cheap. Compare any Dell machine with software, anti-virus updates, and time lost due to windows, and that 800 bucks is a Good 2 grand cheaper.[...]

That's fine to compare prices if you're looking for a new computer (or your first computer ever), but the Mac mini is supposed to be a "switcher" Mac.

So, here's how it should be viewed: if the Mac mini is a switcher machine, you assume the person already has a PC.

So, starting from there, you get:
- keep using the PC: 0$
- switch to Mac by buying a Mac mini: 600$US

That's how people think because that's how it is in real life (computers, televisions, cars, etc). I don't care if a new 40" widescreen plasma TV is 1000$CAN less than my old 36" 4:3 CRT, it will cost me money to switch to a better, less costly TV and nothing to keep my old TV.

Same goes for the Mac mini. You're asking people to replace their 300-800$US computer for a 600$US Mac mini. I say replace, because if they want to use both they'll have to buy another display, keyboard and mouse, which inflates the cost even more.

As for the 599$US price tag (instead of 499$US), I'm assuming it'll drop pretty soon. The MacBook Pro is proof enough (the processor speed changed before the product could even ship).
 
thies said:
Apart from that you can already install OSX on any selfbuilt junkbox with the right mainboard chipset.

Really, the best I have seen is getting to a boot screen with no drivers and apple just killed it with the latest patch. :D
 
Yvan256 said:
As for the 599$US price tag (instead of 499$US), I'm assuming it'll drop pretty soon.
Specs might improve, but Apple likely won't reduce the price any time soon - at least until rev B's are out. They don't tend to alter prices on an given product once it is shipping.
 
jsw said:
Specs might improve, but Apple likely won't reduce the price any time soon - at least until rev B's are out. They don't tend to alter prices on an given product once it is shipping.

They did drop prices on the iPod shuffle. And I'm sure Apple would be glad to get back to the "sub-500$US" price tag.
 
sikkinixx said:
I know! and the educational discount in canada is less than 100 bucks!! on my pb it was 250! :(

yeah it totally sucks. i really want mine soon :(
 
Oh come on.. but ... but, onboard video! ugh. Puke.:rolleyes: Shared VRAM. :eek:

Ok, one of the points of Intel was 'cheaper'. This thing is more than the model it replaced, though it sports more too...

But ugh. Onboard video .. OMG. what are they thinking? $799 is not something I'd say is a lure, it's halfway to the Cube Factor.

This weeks Apple announcements were definately leaning towards lame.
 
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