Stop with the iPad vs Laptop debate

[adamfozzy]

I mean, I get what you are saying, but it's just another way of saying the same thing. I had a MacBook in early 2017, I sold it when the iPad Pro came out. I replaced my MacBook with an iPad Pro for the same tasks.

Yes, I think what Apple are trying to get at with a various quotes and adverts is that many 'computing' tasks can be carried out with an iPad. Computing tasks are not unique to laptops, could be desktops, tablets, phones etc. That is the case for you and many others. A person can replace a laptop with an iPad because their computing needs were not unique to a laptop. Saying an "iPad is a laptop replacement for some people" is misleading because people unfamiliar with how iPads work will go into a store an think the iPad will replace their laptop when it may not for a number of reasons. The most notable of which is that the iPad does not have a trackpad and cursor, which are required for many many tasks.

For example, I teach in a school where many teachers have a desktop PC and an iPad. When they are given an iPad, the teachers are told that the iPad is to create too teaching/learning opportunities not possible with desktops/laptops. That, for me, is the purpose of an iPad, not to replace something else but create new opportunities. It was how the iPad was conceived but the narrative, unfortunately (especially to consumers) is very different. However, I was pleased at recent apple edu event that they are focusing their education narrative at the chalkface (teachers and students) instead of the technicians.

I have gone the other way and sold my personal iPad and just use MacBook but I wouldn't say the MacBook is an iPad replacement...
[doublepost=1522443755][/doublepost]

Why does a laptop (or desktop) have a pointing device? In large part because it doesn't have a touch screen. Mice and trackpads are metaphors for fingers. Certainly, anyone adept with trackpad or mouse will also point to the extra precision that may be possible with a trackpad or mouse (but in my experience, rarely necessary). But if you can touch-and-drag, or tap a link instead of click... you're simply doing the same thing with a different tool.

I've had a fair amount of experience with people who got their first touchpad-equipped laptop after many years of mousing about on a desktop and have a really hard time adapting. I also remember what it took to teach mousing back in the transition days from character-based UIs to GUIs (Oh, the hours of Solitaire necessary to become really fast with a mouse!). Sure, they get there eventually, but building the muscle memory and eye-hand skills for mouse/trackpad takes time and may be frustrating. The same people may end up preferring touchscreen to trackpad because it's simply more direct - they learned direct touch as infants.

Now, when you get into more complex multi-touch/multi-finger actions, things begin to even out. However, without a doubt, to a first-time user a touchscreen is easier to "drive" than a touchpad or mouse.

Agreed but software and websites have not matched that yet. Eventually, I imagine, everything will be touch first and all software be designed for this. But we seem to be at a crossover phase. For example, we used the Scratch website in schools for programming. It doesn't work on an iPad as requires click and drag to move blocks. It doesn't work on a Surface pro either in tablet mode and requires the trackpad. Scratch have picked up on this because they know kids are touch first now, so they've spent 2 years moving the site over to HTML 5 and release it this summer. There is lots of software that works with touch and lots that requires a trackpad/mouse. Thats one reason why Apple have to sell Macs and iPad. Also the reason why Microsoft attached a trackpad to their surfaces.

 

[sparksd]

Why does a laptop (or desktop) have a pointing device? In large part because it doesn't have a touch screen. Mice and trackpads are metaphors for fingers. Certainly, anyone adept with trackpad or mouse will also point to the extra precision that may be possible with a trackpad or mouse (but in my experience, rarely necessary). But if you can touch-and-drag, or tap a link instead of click... you're simply doing the same thing with a different tool.

I've had a fair amount of experience with people who got their first touchpad-equipped laptop after many years of mousing about on a desktop and have a really hard time adapting. I also remember what it took to teach mousing back in the transition days from character-based UIs to GUIs (Oh, the hours of Solitaire necessary to become really fast with a mouse!). Sure, they get there eventually, but building the muscle memory and eye-hand skills for mouse/trackpad takes time and may be frustrating. The same people may end up preferring touchscreen to trackpad because it's simply more direct - they learned direct touch as infants.

Now, when you get into more complex multi-touch/multi-finger actions, things begin to even out. However, without a doubt, to a first-time user a touchscreen is easier to "drive" than a touchpad or mouse.

I have tremors (as do 7 million other Americans) and need a mouse as I can't do anything with precision with just my fingers.

 

[DNichter]

Yes, I think what Apple are trying to get at with a various quotes and adverts is that many 'computing' tasks can be carried out with an iPad. Computing tasks are not unique to laptops, could be desktops, tablets, phones etc. That is the case for you and many others. A person can replace a laptop with an iPad because their computing needs were not unique to a laptop. Saying an "iPad is a laptop replacement for some people" is misleading because people unfamiliar with how iPads work will go into a store an think the iPad will replace their laptop when it may not for a number of reasons. The most notable of which is that the iPad does not have a trackpad and cursor, which are required for many many tasks.

For example, I teach in a school where many teachers have a desktop PC and an iPad. When they are given an iPad, the teachers are told that the iPad is to create too teaching/learning opportunities not possible with desktops/laptops. That, for me, is the purpose of an iPad, not to replace something else but create new opportunities. It was how the iPad was conceived but the narrative, unfortunately (especially to consumers) is very different. However, I was pleased at recent apple edu event that they are focusing their education narrative at the chalkface (teachers and students) instead of the technicians.

I have gone the other way and sold my personal iPad and just use MacBook but I wouldn't say the MacBook is an iPad replacement...
[doublepost=1522443755][/doublepost]

Agreed but software and websites have not matched that yet. Eventually, I imagine, everything will be touch first and all software be designed for this. But we seem to be at a crossover phase. For example, we used the Scratch website in schools for programming. It doesn't work on an iPad as requires click and drag to move blocks. It doesn't work on a Surface pro either in tablet mode and requires the trackpad. Scratch have picked up on this because they know kids are touch first now, so they've spent 2 years moving the site over to HTML 5 and release it this summer. There is lots of software that works with touch and lots that requires a trackpad/mouse. Thats one reason why Apple have to sell Macs and iPad. Also the reason why Microsoft attached a trackpad to their surfaces.

That’s fair, but there was a time when I needed a laptop or desktop specifically for certain tasks. Now, I can complete the same tasks with an iPad. I know it’s not for everyone, but I do believe that over time it will replace more and more traditional computers. Throw in mouse support and it might be game over.

 

[LovingTeddy]

That’s fair, but there was a time when I needed a laptop or desktop specifically for certain tasks. Now, I can complete the same tasks with an iPad. I know it’s not for everyone, but I do believe that over time it will replace more and more traditional computers. Throw in mouse support and it might be game over.

I would love mice support. This would making interaction with iPad when docking with keyboard much easier. If not, well, i will use my PC for tasks that requires precise input, like Excel sheets.

 

[DNichter]

I would love mice support. This would making interaction with iPad when docking with keyboard much easier. If not, well, i will use my PC for tasks that requires precise input, like Excel sheets.

I’d certainly welcome it. I don’t need it typically, but they should make it an option for certain productivity apps.

 

[adamfozzy]

That’s fair, but there was a time when I needed a laptop or desktop specifically for certain tasks. Now, I can complete the same tasks with an iPad. I know it’s not for everyone, but I do believe that over time it will replace more and more traditional computers. Throw in mouse support and it might be game over.

Yes, the iPad or equivalent will certainly get more and more productive. I think its strange people criticise Apple for not putting as much effort into MacOS as they do iOS. There are two reasons for this to me; firstly, as people, suggest, iOS is on their most popular device. But also, MacOS benefits from many more years of development. The iPad has had features in last few years (multiscreen, drag and drop, file system sort of etc) but those features MacOS already had.

I use Weebly to build my website. They have an online web editing tool and an iPad app. All the features are on the web editing tool and that requires trackpad/mouse. There are basic features on the iPad app for basic editing text etc but you couldn't build the website with it. This is quite a general pattern with iPad doing basic tasks and the simple interface aiding that. There are more and more pro apps on iPad appearing though which is promising.

I have recently gone back to using MacBook after years of using iPad only both for my personal use and training teachers on it. In many ways I prefer trackpad than touch, it requires less hand movement. The MacBooks have got smaller and iPads bigger so there is also more crossover in terms of portability.

 

[maflynn]

I find it ironic, that the OP created a thread about stopping the iPad vs. laptop debates and his thread turned into 4 pages of that very thing

In many ways I prefer trackpad than touch, it requires less hand movement

Trackpads/mice provide an efficient input method and offer a high level of granulatrity over moving, selecting or grabbing things. I understand the iPad is a touch first device, but I think apple would increase sales if they offer mouse support - just my $02.

 

[OldEditor]

I'm sure there are grade-schoolers with more tech savvy than I possess, but a couple thoughts from someone who writes and edits for a living:
- When handling large volumes of text (or, if you prefer, small volumes but often), I've never dug reaching to the screen. Keeping the hands at keyboard and/or mouse (or track pad) level is faster and more efficient. So, yes & please, do add mouse support to the iPad. Please.
- I am not terribly keyboard sensitive and have gotten by for many long stretches on inexpensive full-size wireless keyboards that probably ran $29 or $39. But I have a hard time understanding how anyone who must write/edit at speed and/or volume -- and have some complementing apps open simultaneously -- can motor on something the size of most Bluetooth keyboards made for the iPad. Both the spatial aspect and the feel are just not conducive to all-day hammering out product. (That's one reason I think desktops may more or less "die" in the consumer market, but not in the professional or workplace market).
- Ditto above for displays.
- Travel, portability, mobility -- what have you -- needs and preferences all vary by productivity demands and individuals, of course. Personally, I can handle a single or short-term assignment on almost anything: iPad, notebook, laptop, desktop. But for everyday, all-day tasking, goodness, I do prefer a full-size keyboard and generously sized display.
- When mobility is needed, I still prefer a notebook or laptop. While I can see having an iPad with a compact, wireless board for "keep with you just in case" matters, when I know I'm going out on an assignment, I'll grab a computer or even a Chromebook every time.
- I can understand where Mr. Cook's "for most people" claims come from when it comes to the consumer market. I'd even say he's probably correct. That said, I think there's always going to be markets that need more (or different) from what the iPad is currently offering. As posters have already noted, look at the ed market.
- For pro writers and editors, Pages is not going to get the job done as a primary product. Sorry, nope ... Word remains the standard.
- As incredible at innovation as Apple is (a) they ain't alone in the marketplace and (b) I don't think there's a one-device solution for all wants, desires, demands and preferences.
- Love my iPad, my Mac notebook and my desktops. If someone develops a truly portable, do-all solution, I'll hail him, her or they as beyond compare. Just don't see it happening soon.
[doublepost=1522523202][/doublepost]And there's this: conditioning.
Some of us have more decades on us and are just not going to get into iOS, pencils, etc. We're conditioned to a computer operating system, a mouse, etc. We may be heading for the dirt nap sooner, but we're still a goodly chunk of the market.
So, for me, it's this, again: You truly want my coin for a pro-level iPad: Add mouse support, give me something better than Pages.

 

[Mahasamatman]

This is completely my experience so take from it what you will.

I have an MBA that i use for work - work-supplied - that runs all I need. So my IPP is what I use for evrything else. My personal MBP gets booted up every now and then to update it, but it’s pretty much redundant as I do everything on the IPP from photo editing to browsing, email the lot. Sometimes I create OmniGraffle and Pages docs on my IPP for work because it’s easier that using an MBA on the train but the MBP is sat doing nothing. I just can’t bear to part with it. Well not until I trade it and my current 10.5 IPP for a 2018 or 2019 IPP...

 

[baypharm]

This topic is tirelessly argued.

NO - an iPad cannot preform all of the functions of a MacBook Pro

But the price point reflects that!! iPads are only $329! Have been for a year.

Why do we keep comparing that to a MacBook/Pro/Air that cost a minimum of twice that amount? Tell me what laptop you can buy for $329 that you'd rather own than an iPad. IMO there are none.

If someone said, "Hey I'll give you a free chromebook, or a free iPad" you're taking the iPad every single time.

If you go back ten years on this forum - you will find most every subject has been debated countless times. Instead of reading back through forum posts, most members just post a new one on the same subject (asking the same questions or making the same lame comments). So in your case, I see you are only talking about iPad. I invite you to go back and re-read the comments and questions posed for the last 8 years. Same stuff - different day.....

 

[adamfozzy]

If you go back ten years on this forum - you will find most every subject has been debated countless times. Instead of reading back through forum posts, most members just post a new one on the same subject (asking the same questions or making the same lame comments). So in your case, I see you are only talking about iPad. I invite you to go back and re-read the comments and questions posed for the last 8 years. Same stuff - different day.....

May as well scrap this whole forum then. Technology changes every second. Debates and opinions on it change with it.

 

[Brammy]

May as well scrap this whole forum then. Technology changes every second. Debates and opinions on it change with it.

In this topic’s case, it seems like every week we have some variation of: “hey, has anyone thought about replacing their laptop with an iPad Pro?" Or the opposite: “no, you can’t."

 

[sdz]

Understandable. I don't expect it to work for everyone. That's why it's great we have choices.

Typical response.

"For me it works"
!=
"iPad can replace windows/mac laptop"

 

[The Game 161]

the ease of the trackpad is still something i would miss.

I browse alot on my macbook when at home and use the ipad pro when laying about or on the go. Think it's the best of both worlds personally.

 

[DNichter]

Typical response.

"For me it works"
!=
"iPad can replace windows/mac laptop"

What’s your point?

 

[LovingTeddy]

the ease of the trackpad is still something i would miss.

I browse alot on my macbook when at home and use the ipad pro when laying about or on the go. Think it's the best of both worlds personally.

If Apple would allow trackpad or mouse support, that will be fantastic.
[doublepost=1522621190][/doublepost]

What’s your point?

iPad cannot replace laptop? I think that is what he/she meant?

 

[DNichter]

If Apple would allow trackpad or mouse support, that will be fantastic.
[doublepost=1522621190][/doublepost]

iPad cannot replace laptop? I think that is what he/she meant?

I’d definitely support trackpad or mouse support in limited apps. I guess that’s what they meant, still a dumb argument though. It depends on the user, I think everyone can agree to that.

 

[Mr. Heckles]

Using price as an argument is the wrong way to look at it. So you’re saying a $329 iPad can do more than a $300 Windows Laptop?

 

[LovingTeddy]

Using price as an argument is the wrong way to look at it. So you’re saying a $329 iPad can do more than a $300 Windows Laptop?

Maybe maybe not. Depends on how one person uses the computer.

I almost never use my ThinkPad/MacBook while i am on the internet/watching videos and writing some documents. To me, if these are all the tasks that i am going to do, then i don’t see the difference.

However, I do more than that. I am filling out government forms, immigration papers that is flat out not work with iOS. At my work, i am constantly using word or excel documents with lots of macros. I am also creating lots of forms/excel sheet with Marcos.

I also torrenting TV or movies.

When i am doing these kind of things, yea, $300 Windows laptop will do more than iPad.

It is all depends on what you do and what you need.

 

[Mahasamatman]

I’d definitely support trackpad or mouse support in limited apps. I guess that’s what they meant, still a dumb argument though. It depends on the user, I think everyone can agree to that.

The late Steve once said that a touch screen on an iMac made no sense - you would have to reach out to use it which would be annoying and ergonomically unsound. The same argument works with a keyboard mounted iPad so I would think mouse support on iPads is a logical step. Hopefully Apple will put two and two together and provide it. Along with support for Fuji Compressed Raw forma...

 

[DNichter]

The late Steve once said that a touch screen on an iMac made no sense - you would have to reach out to use it which would be annoying and ergonomically unsound. The same argument works with a keyboard mounted iPad so I would think mouse support on iPads is a logical step. Hopefully Apple will put two and two together and provide it. Along with support for Fuji Compressed Raw forma...

I think they will at some point, but only with certain productivity apps. I also doubt it's what we imagine as a typically mouse set up. I bet you need to use an iOS device as a trackpad.
[doublepost=1522668739][/doublepost]

Maybe maybe not. Depends on how one person uses the computer.

I almost never use my ThinkPad/MacBook while i am on the internet/watching videos and writing some documents. To me, if these are all the tasks that i am going to do, then i don’t see the difference.

However, I do more than that. I am filling out government forms, immigration papers that is flat out not work with iOS. At my work, i am constantly using word or excel documents with lots of macros. I am also creating lots of forms/excel sheet with Marcos.

I also torrenting TV or movies.

When i am doing these kind of things, yea, $300 Windows laptop will do more than iPad.

It is all depends on what you do and what you need.

Torrenting was actually the last thing I needed my MacBook for. Once I was able to download and manage files via my iPad, it was time to move on.

 

[AutisticGuy]

No it does not. You still don’t get what i said.

When you compare two things, let’s say A and B. If you claim A can replace B, then A need to do whatever B can or you have alternivate means to achieve whatever B can. If not, then A cannot replace B.

In science, if you have a theory, in order this theory to be stand, it need be tested. If one thing makes this theory fail, then this theory fails. If you are making an argument claiming one item can replace other, you will need to make sure one can truely replace other, if one thing that one cannot achieve, it cannot replace other.

You're trying to make a binary argument and apply it to something that's not binary. I use a 2nd generation iPad 12.9 as my main device and I have yet to have difficulty completing a task I needed it to do. While I'm not a "power user" and don't use my iPad for work-related tasks, I do quite a bit with my iPad and to me it's superior to a laptop.

I love how the screen "loads" on my iPad pretty much instantly. I even love I can focus on one task, but also do some pretty good multitasking. I love the picture in picture feature of apps like Netflix. These are just examples of advantages the iPad has for my use case, over a regular laptop. Your mileage may vary.

I don't have to prove this scientifically. I just need to enjoy my iPad.

 

[bensisko]

Typical response.

"For me it works"
!=
"iPad can replace windows/mac laptop"

Actually, you have it wrong.

“For me it works” == “iPad can replace windows/Mac laptop”
(The logic with the phrasing means that if it works for even just one person, it means it’s possible and can be done.)

However...

“iPad can replace windows/Mac laptop” != “it works for you”
(The phrasing here states that just because it’s possible, doesn’t mean it’s possible in your particular situation.)

 

[DNichter]

It depends on the user/task, end of story.

 

[Mahasamatman]

I think they will at some point, but only with certain productivity apps. I also doubt it's what we imagine as a typically mouse set up. I bet you need to use an iOS device as a trackpad.

Yeah, all of that is taken as read. Which in some ways is a shame, but if it means it works better then it’s a worthwhile step.