Studio Display with Mac Pro 2013?

[MattJones]

I see on the tech specs the Mac Pro 2013 trash can isn't listed as being compatible with the new Studio Display. Anyone know if I used a thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter if it would work?

I guess we'll have to wait and see maybe

 

[fwmireault]

It should work but with 4K max resolution, if it’s the same as the LG Ultrafine 5K (chances are good because it is practically the same panel in a nicer enclosure) Source for the LG Ultrafine

Can’t say about how the A13 would be managing the camera and mics that said.

We should definitely wait for reviews or support pages for this display, but from what I know there’s nothing that prevents this display to output a 4K resolution on the 2013 Mac Pro

 

[SpotOnT]

Can’t the 2013 Mac Pro drive a 5k display using 2xThunderbolt 2 ports?

Why can’t someone make an adapter for 2xThunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 4 go drive a 5k display?

 

[MikeDr206]

The issue is that it’s a Thunderbolt 3 device, and Trashcan Mac is a Thunderbolt 2 device. Won’t work.

 

[SpotOnT]

Correct.
But there is a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 dongle.

So all we need is a dual Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 dongle to get 5k support from our 2013 Mac Pro right? Why doesn't that dongle exist from the likes of OWC.

 

[Killerbob]

I chatted with Apple Support this afternoon, and according to them you can indeed connect two TB2 (with adapters) to the Studio Display and get 5K at 60Hz. With one, you would get max 4K at 60Hz.

I didn't ask about the camera, mics, speakers, and dock connections, but assume they would connect fine via the TB2<->TB4 connection.

 

[SpotOnT]

That would be mind blowing if Apple Support were correct…..but how does that work? The Studio Display only has one upstream input.

 

[Killerbob]

Hmmm - I didn’t know that, otherwise I would have asked. I explicitly asked if the dual-cable solution used with LG monitors would work with the new monitor and they said it would. Then I asked about the Hz, and they confirmed it would work at 60Hz.

Perhaps someone could ask again?

 

[Amethyst1]

I chatted with Apple Support this afternoon, and according to them you can indeed connect two TB2 (with adapters) to the Studio Display and get 5K at 60Hz.

Which is strange since the display has only one Thunderbolt port (as stated in #7). So I’d take this with a grain of salt.

 

[joevt]

I chatted with Apple Support this afternoon, and according to them you can indeed connect two TB2 (with adapters) to the Studio Display and get 5K at 60Hz.

No.

I didn't ask about the camera, mics, speakers, and dock connections, but assume they would connect fine via the TB2<->TB4 connection.

Maybe.

Correct.
But there is a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 dongle.

So all we need is a dual Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 dongle to get 5k support from our 2013 Mac Pro right? Why doesn't that dongle exist from the likes of OWC.

The only way would be to connect a Thunderbolt 3 add-in card. Connect two Mini DisplayPort cables between the MacPro6,1 and the add-in card. Then connect the 5K Thunderbolt Display to the add-in card. There currently is no software to enable the Thunderbolt 3 add-in card to support PCIe tunnelling (required to support the USB features of the display).

Your best bet for 5K 60Hz support is to use an eGPU that has a Thunderbolt 3 controller that has its DisplayPort inputs connected to the GPU in the eGPU - such as the BlackMagic eGPUs or the Sonnet eGPU Breakaway Puck 5500XT/5700 but eGPUs for Thunderbolt 2 Macs require some extra software (but this software exists):
https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/kr...u-support-with-filevault-sip-and-art-enabled/

 

[Killerbob]

And you are sure the 3 USB-C ports won’t work as Display Ports?

If Apple Support was just wrong, at least there should be no reason why we can’t use a single TB2<->TB3 cable and run 4K at 60Hz, and have camera and audio via that connection.

 

[Amethyst1]

And you are sure the 3 USB-C ports won’t work as Display Ports?

The UltraFine 5K and Pro Display XDR don't work like that either.
You can input USB-C video (via DisplayPort Alternate Mode) using the Thunderbolt port to both the Studio Display and the Pro Display XDR though. Both are compatible with non-Thunderbolt sources such as iPads.

If Apple Support was just wrong, at least there should be no reason why we can’t use a single TB2<->TB3 cable and run 4K at 60Hz, and have camera and audio via that connection.

That should™ work, but you're not going to get 5K at 60 Hz that way.

 

[Killerbob]

I had another talk to Apple Support this morning - this time with Apple Technical Support.

They said that "yes, we are able to get 4K from a 2013 Mac Pro using a Thunderbolt cable with adapter (of course). The USB-C ports, audio, microphones, and camera will all utilize that connection as well."

This time they did not want to say if dual-cable would work... but at least he said he couldn't confirm or deny - as the Mac Pro was not listed on the compatibility listing.

 

[joevt]

That should™ work, but you're not going to get 5K at 60 Hz that way.

Right.
I think the Studio display can support DSC so it can work from the iPads that don't have Thunderbolt.
A Thunderbolt 2 connection is sufficient for a 5K 60Hz DSC signal (because it's sufficient for the 6K XDR).
However, the MacPro6,1 doesn't support DisplayPort 1.4 or DSC and it's GPU (or Apple GPU driver? - need a Windows or Linux check to be sure) doesn't support width > 4096 if you try a lower refresh rate for a single tile connection.

For Thunderbolt 3 Macs (or Thunderbolt 3 eGPUs like the Blackmagic eGPU or Sonnet Breakaway Puck 5500XT/5700):
With support for DSC (so not the BlackMagic eGPUs), you should be able to connect two Studio displays per Thunderbolt 3 bus.
But maybe DSC is not supported - in that case an HBR3 signal is required for non-Thunderbolt connection 5K 60Hz support which can only do millions of colors and only one of those can be connected per Thunderbolt bus for full 6K support.

We have yet to learn if the Studio Display can use HBR3 (XDR can only use HBR3 for dual tile mode - I don't recall anyone getting a HBR3 single tile mode). DSC support is currently only implied by the non-Thunderbolt iPad support. Dual HBR2 is probably a given since Mac mini 2018 is supported. Single HBR2 for 4K 60Hz probably is supported since it was supported by the LG UltraFine 5K.

 

[heeroyuigo]

My question, is it possible with the mac pro 6.1 with a 5K display in 2560x1440 HiDPI(retina) ?
(and not full 5120x2880)

 

[Amethyst1]

My question, is it possible with the mac pro 6.1 with a 5K display in 2560x1440 HiDPI(retina) ?

Yes, if it is a dual-tile DisplayPort 1.2 ("dual-link SST") display like the Dell UP2715K or HP Z27q.

Dual-tile Thunderbolt 3 displays (Apple Studio Display or LG UltraFine 5K) or single-tile DisplayPort 1.4 displays (Iiyama XB2779QQS or Planar IX2790) will not work at 5K from the 2013 Mac Pro.

 

[MikeDr206]

I used a trash can Mac with my UP2715K for a couple of years without issue.

 

[Killerbob]

Dual-tile Thunderbolt 3 displays (Apple Studio Display or LG UltraFine 5K) or single-tile DisplayPort 1.4 displays (Iiyama XB2779QQS or Planar IX2790) will not work at 5K from the 2013 Mac Pro.

That remains to be confirmed. TWO Apple Support personel told me it will work, and one told me it would not. I don't know how it would work, but they said it would work using dual-cable.

 

[Amethyst1]

TWO Apple Support personel told me it will work, and one told me it would not. I don't know how it would work, but they said it would work using dual-cable.

The Studio Display has only one Thunderbolt port, so a dual-cable solution is not going to work.

 

[joevt]

Apple Support personel

are ignorant or the new Studio Display is magic. But you can do anything with enough software and hardware so there is a chance it could work but why would such a feature be hidden? Why would Apple include such a feature for Macs that it doesn't support anymore? Apple would rather make you buy a new computer to use the new display. The possibility is ≈ 0.0001%.

That remains to be confirmed.

What @Amethyst1 said is accurate - dual tile 5K Thunderbolt 3 displays can't work from Thunderbolt 2 Macs because Thunderbolt 2 doesn't have enough bandwidth. You would have to take two DisplayPort connections from the MacPro6,1, and input them into a Thunderbolt 3 add-in card to get 5K 60Hz 10bpc RGB.

The issue with macOS and single tile displays that are wider than 4K connected to old AMD graphics such as that of the MacPro6,1 is documented in many places.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/intel-graphics-and-5120x1440-testing-in-big-sur.2244174/

The issue is whether or not the Studio Display has the magic required to allow connection of two DisplayPort inputs. The Studio Display has a Thunderbolt input and 3 USB 10 Gbps outputs. Do you think those USB 10 Gbps outputs have the extra circuitry to detect a DisplayPort input and that there are switches that can move that DisplayPort input to the display panel? Apple has a few Macs with DisplayPort switches. For example iMacs, that support Thunderbolt Target Display Mode can switch the iMac's panel between the GPU and the Thunderbolt controller. The MacPro7,1 has DisplayPort switches to move DisplayPort signals from MPX modules between the two built-in Thunderbolt controllers.

Maybe the Apple Support persons were thinking about the Thunderbolt 3 add-in card solution or the Blackmagic or Sonnet eGPU solutions. But neither of those are supported solutions so they should not have been thinking about them.

 

[joevt]

My question, is it possible with the mac pro 6.1 with a 5K display in 2560x1440 HiDPI(retina) ?
(and not full 5120x2880)

2560x1440 HiDPI is 5120x2880 but the MacPro6,1 will scale that down to 4K to output to the Studio Display because Thunderbolt 2 limit (but also old AMD >4K width problem - does the >4K problem exist in Windows? If not, then maybe it can do 5K 60Hz 6bpc).

 

[joevt]

I used a trash can Mac with my UP2715K for a couple of years without issue.

Yup. That's a dual tile display that doesn't use Thunderbolt so you can connect two DisplayPort connections and get 5K 60Hz 10bpc RGB.

 

[satcomer]

2560x1440 HiDPI is 5120x2880 but the MacPro6,1 will scale that down to 4K to output to the Studio Display because Thunderbolt 2 limit (but also old AMD >4K width problem - does the >4K problem exist in Windows? If not, then maybe it can do 5K 60Hz 6bpc).

On Windows it will take modern video card to drive a 5k Display! Maybe a 4K can be had but that 2013 Mac Pro probably will only get 4K!

 

[SpotOnT]

Don’t mean to derail the thread, but since we are discussed monitors here anyway, what would be the best monitor option today for the 2013 Mac Pro without running an eGPU:

1) A 27” 1440p monitor in native resolution

2) A 27” 4k monitor in scaled 1440p resolution

3) A 27” 5k monitor in upscaled 5k resolution


I have been running a 1440p Benq with my Mac Pro, but the thing is on the fritz. I like the idea of getting the Studio Display since then I will already have a 5k monitor when I upgrade the Mac Pro, but I am not sure I am willing to take the short term hit if it is going to look a lot worse than a native 1440p display.

 

[Killerbob]

Wouldn't the best setup be a 27" 4K monitor running in 3860x2160?

I heard that running your 4K upscaled on a 5K monitor looks fugly.