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This is completely unfair....
They really arent butting Macs v/s PC but are rather doing a sum total average (that sigma stuff I've long forgotten) of PC prices and Mac prices!

Of course PC's are gonna win this one because a majority of the PCs out there fall in the cheap stake <$500 range! and no Mac comes near to this!
Seems like NPD's having a grudge against Apple!

P.S.: would love to see THIS on Apple's "News" page! lol
 
Face it, you pay a premium for an Apple computer, which is the price the market is willing to bear. Inventing justifications for the price just reinforces the price point.
 
Oh yeah, there's no question about it. You do have to pay premium when buying an Apple product, but then again in most cases you are getting a premium product. :)
 
Nothing really against them being expensive, but the fact that they really suck nowadays quality-wise. Let's recap recent failures:
- moisture inside iMac
- iMac display quality problems with massive backlight bleeding etc.
- 24" iMac speaker problems
- Mac Pro and loud fan problems
- cracking MacBook casings
- sloppy MacBook Pro hinges

I mean, come on! :mad:
 
hehe, whats the point making dishonest analogue? you want to say something, say it in plain words. Im not as knowledgeable as you with cars, Sorry I don't even know what you are talking about.

yellow did not make a dishonest analogy. His very simple and direct comparison is meant to highlight the uselessness of the statement, "a Lexus costs twice as much as a Toyota."

Since you said you didn't know what that meant, I will tell you. Lexus is a luxury car made by the same parent company as Toyota. Toyota is a standard quality consumer vehicle company, making everything from family sedans to trucks to minivans. Toyota, unlike Lexus, sells many many units at a lower price and has a standard set of features for the price. Lexus on the other hand offers many many features (automatic parallel parking for example) that are not standard in the average car, and as a result their cars cost a lot more.

Carry this analogy over to Apple now. Let's say that the average HP laptop is $700 (I really have no idea what it is for HP in particular, but let's pretend for the sake of argument) and that the average Apple laptop is $1,500 (I believe this is a figure from the article itself right?). Now, there are two important things to remember about these figures: 1) they don't necessarily mean that a $700 HP model or a $1,500 Apple model actually exist, and 2) that this is actually what ends up selling well in the market.

Let's take a look at point 1 first. The average price simply denotes the mean pricetag of all of HP's or Apple's models put together. HP might, for example, have an offering of a $400, $600, $900, $1,600, and $2,100 laptops. You'll notice that there is no single $700 model, and yet the average is still $700. We can make a similar statement using Apple's lineup, but I take it the concept is simple enough to understand.

Now, looking at point 2, we see a larger chink appear in this article. The article simply took a broad sampling of available models and then averaged their prices. This is utterly useless in understanding who does better in the market. If we assume, using the previous hypothetical HP price points, that $700 is the average price of the notebook sold in the market, we could be sorely mistaken. Suppose customers actually gravitate to the $1,600 model because it offers a more complete package? It is possible that while HP's average price is $700, that the average price of laptops sold is actually higher (say $900 or $1,000).

If we apply the same logic to Apple, we might understand more about why this article is useless. Even though Apple's average notebook (again, it doesn't actually exist) is $1,500, customers might actually be in love with the $1099 macbook and buying it in droves. In this case, the average price of sold computers would drop (which I imagine is the case in the real world, because the two lower macbook models are the best selling of Apple's notebooks).

However, the article tells us nothing in this vein. Instead, the article is attempting to masquerade 4th grade-level math as worthy of basing a new stunning opinion about how Apple needs to pay better attention to the market. Critically, the article is trying to say that Apple can't sustain growth because its models are too expensive, when in fact there is very little to base this on (in fact, NOTHING to base this on).

The article essentially lets us know that Apple does not sell cheap computers, which frankly wasn't a huge secret to begin with. Just like Lexus, we know that Apple doesn't cater to the bargain basement crowd. That's why everyone is saying this article is devoid of actually substance.

I hope that makes it clearer. :)


As for yellow's argument regarding economies of scale, I'm having a hard time buying into that as a reason for the increased cost. Apple does produce fairly large numbers of its units, to the point where I imagine that each further unit would only marginally make the net cost lower. I suppose it's possible that it affects the price, but I'd venture that it's only a few dollars per machine at most. In many ways, Apple minimizes variation in its computers, so I'd bet that many parts are very easily used in several or possibly all models. I'd bet that HP and Dell would actually have a harder time, since many of their models are drastically different in size and shape.
 
This article is worthless. It's comparing Apples to rotten, stinky oranges.

Aside from all of the other wonderful low quality vs. high quality analogies, in my opinion Apple computers are worth the price because of OS X. Plain and simple.

Argue that! :p

;)
 
<shrug> If you're buying a computer on price alone, you'll never buy a Mac.

Macs have never been sold as purely value-for-money PCs.
 
Still, no matter what the price and what you get, are we all unanimous that quality of recent Macs is crap? Are we? I'm actually starting to lean towards a PC instead of 24" iMac, thanks to crappy build quality.
 
Still, no matter what the price and what you get, are we all unanimous that quality of recent Macs is crap? Are we? I'm actually starting to lean towards a PC instead of 24" iMac, thanks to crappy build quality.

I disagree. Apple is above average when it comes to build quality. I've seen much, much worse in the PC world, and not just among bargain-basement computers either. There is a lot of excellent PC hardware out there too, but you're way off base when you say Apple's build quality is "crap".
 
I disagree. Apple is above average when it comes to build quality. I've seen much, much worse in the PC world, and not just among bargain-basement computers either. There is a lot of excellent PC hardware out there too, but you're way off base when you say Apple's build quality is "crap".
I'm not. You really need to take into consideration how much more Apple computers cost and then take into consideration how vast the recent problems are. In my past 4 years as a Mac user, I have never heard anything like current situation. That aside, you have no way to replace stuff like crackling sound chips or over-heating power supplies like you can in desktop-PC's. The very fact that Apple is doing something no-one else is - think iMac - should be enough to pay some extra attention towards quality. Right now situation seems to be that you pay premium for design & OS X alone.
 
Where are you finding Versace ties, out of curiosity? I feel like the last time I saw a Versace tie was years ago... like maybe the first season Donatella took over and actually impressed everyone with her colors and vibrance.

Switzerland a couple of years ago.
 
Thanks for trying to explain my analogy, CalBoy. I doubt he got it. Or maybe if he did, he'll have a snappy rejoinder that may make any sense? One can always hope.

As for yellow's argument regarding economies of scale, I'm having a hard time buying into that as a reason for the increased cost. Apple does produce fairly large numbers of its units, to the point where I imagine that each further unit would only marginally make the net cost lower. I suppose it's possible that it affects the price, but I'd venture that it's only a few dollars per machine at most. In many ways, Apple minimizes variation in its computers, so I'd bet that many parts are very easily used in several or possibly all models. I'd bet that HP and Dell would actually have a harder time, since many of their models are drastically different in size and shape.

Valid point, and one I hadn't taken into consideration. In terms of Dell/Apple, Dell's vastly increased variation in product offerings could seriously undermine and equalize the price per unit.

I'm certainly not trying to defend Apple's price per unit. It's too high. They could validate that kind of price back in the day when they actually needed it to survive financially.. but times have changed and the halo effect has grown.

Hell, my home Mac is still a Quicksilver '01. It'll probably be 10 years old by the time I buy a new Mac.
 
Thanks for trying to explain my analogy, CalBoy. I doubt he got it. Or maybe if he did, he'll have a snappy rejoinder that may make any sense? One can always hope.

I won't be holding my breath. :p:)
I'm certainly not trying to defend Apple's price per unit. It's too high. They could validate that kind of price back in the day when they actually needed it to survive financially.. but times have changed and the halo effect has grown.

I know you weren't defending the price of Apple's computers, but rather saying why you thought they could be more expensive.

Certainly Apple's latest margin numbers prove that times have changed, and they should maybe take a look at the pricing guide if only to give us all a break. :p
Hell, my home Mac is still a Quicksilver '01. It'll probably be 10 years old by the time I buy a new Mac.

I have one year of undergrad left, and I hope my mbp will make it through law school (3 more years! :eek:). She's done well so far, so here's hoping. :)
 
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