Surface ad claims can't do it on my mac

[elf69]

OK so the current ad for surface shows a set designer drawing a theater set.

He put some details in then says my surface is great because I cant do this on a mac. (not exact words)

Ummmm you can if you buy a ipad pro and pencil.

I am from a windows background and work with windows and repair them in my job.

However in my personal life I have come to like apple more and more.

My windows laptop and desktop pc are gone and replaced with macbook and imac.

I'm curious now about the pro and pencil as seen amazing drawings.
I used to draw alot but due to my disability I am no longer able to.

The pro may be able to help.

I have seen a surface and its horrible!
Rather use my samsung tab than a surface.

Back to point though...

Ipad can do soo much.
And "cant do it on my mac" is untrue.

But then will microsoft argue an ipad is not a mac, but a tablet.

 

[keysofanxiety]

I personally dislike Surfaces, though don't mind if people buy them of course. The main problem I've found with them are the leadtimes on repairs. They're ridiculous.

Just as expensive as a Mac but without any of the customer support.

 

[Nermal]

But then will microsoft argue an ipad is not a mac, but a tablet.

And they'd be completely right. An iPad is not a Mac.

 

[Newtons Apple]

There are plenty of things the Surface Pro can do that the iPad can not.

Pick the tool you need and use it.

 

[elf69]

And they'd be completely right. An iPad is not a Mac.

A surface is not a PC either it is a tablet.

 

[sracer]

There are plenty if things the Surface Pro can do that the iPad can not.

Pick the tool you need and use it.

But, but... if I do that, how does my team win?!

A surface is not a PC either it is a tablet.

The Surface is in fact a PC. It is a touchscreen notebook with a detachable keyboard. Everything one can do on a Windows notebook one can do with a Surface. It is why Microsoft NEVER advertises the Surface WITHOUT the TypeCover. Microsoft itself knows that it is first and foremost, a PC.

Yes, it can do "tablet-y" things but that is not what it does best... or even does well. In the same way as you can use a flat-head screw driver as a chisel but it won't do it well.

It's all a silly argument anyways since commercials are not about truthfulness but about convincing people to buy their products. Of course they are going to skew the narrative to favor their product.

 

[elf69]

I have an Asus t100ta with keyboard dock and 500GB HDD in the dock.

Asus sell it as a tablet not pc.

So this is a pc also as my model only comes with keyboard dock (some models do not though).

Yes they will skew to make their item look better every company does it.

 

[rowspaxe]

I have seen a surface and its horrible!
Rather use my samsung tab than a surface.

Microsoft derangement syndrome. Hate at first site!
[doublepost=1472223356][/doublepost]

The Surface is in fact a PC. It is a touchscreen notebook with a detachable keyboard. Everything one can do on a Windows notebook one can do with a Surface. It is why Microsoft NEVER advertises the Surface WITHOUT the TypeCover. Microsoft itself knows that it is first and foremost, a PC.

Its a hybrid, accept it for what it is. A ways back it seemed the term "slate" was taking off to describe hybrid tablets. Maybe another category distinction is justified. Then posters here could write, "surface pro and viao canvas are slates, not tablets"! Everyone would feel better. You can't ignore its canvas/ tablet functionality and say it is a "first and foremost" a laptop

 

[sracer]

I have an Asus t100ta with keyboard dock and 500GB HDD in the dock.

Asus sell it as a tablet not pc.

So this is a pc also as my model only comes with keyboard dock (some models do not though).

Yes they will skew to make their item look better every company does it.

Why are you bringing up Asus? YOU started this thread to talk about the SURFACE. If you want to expand the conversation to Windows hybrids in general that is a separate issue. One that has already been beaten to death.

 

[elf69]

sracer you say the surface is a pc because it ships with a keyboard.

So do many other devices that are tablets/hybrids.

So these are PCs (if running windows) by same definition.

I personally (not sure about rest of you) find the surface a convertible as apposed to a PC/laptop.

Microsoft say it is a pc, but technically a PC is a personal computer so lots of devices would qualify.

Microsoft say a mac cannot do what a surface can.
course it can but may need a peripheral to do it.

e.g. in the ad the design of a set all you need is a graphics tab and there you go.

As said before it is all marketing.

 

[bensisko]

Microsoft derangement syndrome. Hate at first site!
[doublepost=1472223356][/doublepost]
Its a hybrid, accept it for what it is. A ways back it seemed the term "slate" was taking off to describe hybrid tablets. Maybe another category distinction is justified. Then posters here could write, "surface pro and viao canvas are slates, not tablets"! Everyone would feel better. You can't ignore its canvas/ tablet functionality and say it is a "first and foremost" a laptop

I would agree with sracer - the Surface Pro is a laptop first and a "tablet" second.
In a technical sense, yes the Surface Pro is a tablet - it has a touch screen, you can use it without an attached keyboard, and it has a pen. In a Clinical sense, it's very poor at trying to get across that simplified workflow that one would usually associate with a tablet computer (granted, this is all very 'per the individual' - different people have different thoughts on "tablet computing"). It's the same thing that says the iPad is a tablet first, and tries to be a laptop but doesn't do a good job at it.
[doublepost=1472227598][/doublepost]

Microsoft say a mac cannot do what a surface can.
course it can but may need a peripheral to do it.

Yep! This is KEY! Anything you can do on the Surface, you can do on a Mac (and really the only thing Macs can't do, out of the box, is draw on the screen). Now, it may be more accurate to say "It's not as convienant to do on my Mac"...

 

[rowspaxe]

In a technical sense, yes the Surface Pro is a tablet - it has a touch screen, you can use it without an attached keyboard, and it has a pen. In a Clinical sense, it's very poor at trying to get across that simplified workflow that one would usually associate with a tablet computer...

What is the complication. You swipe side and touch into tablet mode (if you are not in tablet mode) and then use it as a tablet.

 

[Night Spring]

What is the complication. You swipe side and touch into tablet mode (if you are not in tablet mode) and then use it as a tablet.

Why does the user have to manually switch to tablet mode? Wouldn't it be better if the system detects whether a keyboard is attached, and automatically switches to tablet mode if it detects no keyboard? Is there any benefits from giving the user manual control to switch modes?

 

[rowspaxe]

Why does the user have to manually switch to tablet mode? Wouldn't it be better if the system detects whether a keyboard is attached, and automatically switches to tablet mode if it detects no keyboard? Is there any benefits from giving the user manual control to switch modes?

By default it switches to tablet mode when you remove the cover, or gives a pop up to switch. You can switch back and forth between laptop and tablet mode with the keyboard off. I often use desktop apps like sketchbook pro with the keyboard off. Many desktop apps work fine with touch.

 

[mi7chy]

Just as expensive as a Mac but without any of the customer support.

You sure about that?

Surface Pro 4 M3 128GB with pen included often go for $699 with edu discount and another $117 for keyboard/trackpad cover.

To get the equivalent touch and pen input solution from Apple you'll be spending about $2000 with 10% edu discount for Macbook Air 13" 128GB, iPad Pro 12.9 128GB, keyboard and pencil. That doesn't include the cost of chiropractor visits for hauling all that weight around.

As for support, I've walked into the Microsoft store with an issue and walked out with a brand new Surface Pro 4 so service is the same.

Not only is the Apple solution more than double the cost but in my case an iPad does maybe 10% of what a Surface Pro 4 can do and a Macbook can only do a 1/3 to at most 1/2 since it lacks the professional software available for Windows and the touch and pen input integration.

 

[keysofanxiety]

You sure about that?

Surface Pro 4 M3 128GB with pen included often go for $699 with edu discount and another $130 for keyboard/trackpad cover.

To get the equivalent touch and pen input solution from Apple you'll be spending about $2000 with 10% edu discount for Macbook Air 13" 128GB, iPad Pro 12.9 128GB, keyboard and pencil. That doesn't include the cost of chiropractor visits for hauling all that weight around.

As for support, I've walked into the Microsoft store with an issue and walked out with a brand new Surface Pro 4 so service is the same.

You've mentioned two expensive Apple products, as if the Surface does both just as well in both categories as Apple. That's really, really silly.

Some would say that Microsoft don't achieve the keyboard & mouse UI anywhere close to as well as Apple do. They may also argue that Microsoft don't achieve the touch/pencil UI anywhere near to as good as Apple, so you're getting double your money with an Apple product. But then that's just as silly an argument, based on personal bias as if it's fact.

As for support, it definitely is not the same. Great if you've got a Microsoft Store local to you. Otherwise you're SOL with completely inappropriate lead-times. It's not comparable in the slightest.

 

[mi7chy]

You've mentioned two expensive Apple products, as if the Surface does both just as well in both categories as Apple. That's really, really silly.

Some would say that Microsoft don't achieve the keyboard & mouse UI anywhere close to as well as Apple do. They may also argue that Microsoft don't achieve the touch/pencil UI anywhere near to as good as Apple, so you're getting double your money with an Apple product. But then that's just as silly an argument, based on personal bias as if it's fact.

As for support, it definitely is not the same. Great if you've got a Microsoft Store local to you. Otherwise you're SOL with completely inappropriate lead-times. It's not comparable in the slightest.

Macbook Air is the cheapest Macbook but with the crappy resolution a fairer comparison is the even more expensive $1299 Macbook Pro 13".

It's more personal preference but the Surface 4 keyboard feels closer to the gold standard original Thinkpad keyboards that I'm used to and its trackpad has better palm rejection than Macbooks from my experience using both.

If you're not near an Apple store you're in the same predicament. In that case it's no big deal to get a cross ship.

 

[keysofanxiety]

If you're not near an Apple store you're in the same predicament.

That's absolutely not true at all. Not in the slightest.

There are many more third-party Apple Repair Centres who get next-day parts from Apple; countless more Apple Repair Centres than there are Apple Stores. Even if you can't get to one, courier collections by Apple and subsequent repairs/replacements have an impressively quick turnaround time. Apple also subsidise large repair centres for when they need to be collected.

As far as I know, there aren't any official third-party Microsoft repair centres. The lead-time for Surfaces can go up to months. Months.

 

[rowspaxe]

They may also argue that Microsoft don't achieve the touch/pencil UI anywhere near to as good as Apple..

The pencil is a fine product but the idea that it has overwhelming advantages of the surface pen has been debunked many times on you tube. I prefer surface pen because doesn't make a hard point "tap" noise in use--annoying. There is no difference in touch response on the two tablets.

 

[keysofanxiety]

The pencil is a fine product but the idea that it has overwhelming advantages of the surface pen has been debunked many times on you tube. I prefer surface pen because doesn't make a hard point "tap" noise in use--annoying.

I haven't had enough experience with the Apple Pencil to decide one way or another. I was rambling that hypothetical hyperbole more to illustrate the ridiculousness of the OP's argument

 

[mi7chy]

The pencil is a fine product but the idea that it has overwhelming advantages of the surface pen has been debunked many times on you tube. I prefer surface pen because doesn't make a hard point "tap" noise in use--annoying. There is no difference in touch response on the two tablets.

I'd say the Surface 4 pen pros outweigh the Apple pencil. Ironic that a pencil doesn't have an eraser function while a pen does.

Surface 4 pen
+ free
+ metal
+ eraser
+ top and side buttons do additional functions like launching Cortana, OneNote, right-click
+ nib options
+ more universal software support
+ native pen to text transcription
+ long battery life
+ LED battery life indicator on pen
+ quick battery replacement
- no tilt shading shortcut
- more initial activation force

Apple pencil
+ tilt shading shortcut
+ less initial activation force
- $99 additional purchase
- cheap plastic
- no eraser
- no buttons for additional functions
- no nib options
- short battery life
- awkward charging
- no battery life indicator on pen
- limited app support
- no native pen to text transcription

 

[nviz22]

If you want a dumbed down tablet experience, the iPad is great no doubt. If you want versatility, power, and ingenuity, you want a Surface. Simple as that. Most people use tablets for basic stuff, which is why the iPad sells more. Only people who want a PC in a tablet form should go after a Surface well because PCs are typically Windows based. See how easy it is to make that decision?

 

[spinedoc77]

And they'd be completely right. An iPad is not a Mac.

A surface is not a PC either it is a tablet.

Of course the surface pro is a PC. Conversely an iPad isn't a Mac, it's not running OSx. It seems you are bitter because of a commercial which was actually accurate. Can you draw on a Mac? No. Simple enough.
[doublepost=1472251822][/doublepost]

I would agree with sracer - the Surface Pro is a laptop first and a "tablet" second.
In a technical sense, yes the Surface Pro is a tablet - it has a touch screen, you can use it without an attached keyboard, and it has a pen. In a Clinical sense, it's very poor at trying to get across that simplified workflow that one would usually associate with a tablet computer (granted, this is all very 'per the individual' - different people have different thoughts on "tablet computing"). It's the same thing that says the iPad is a tablet first, and tries to be a laptop but doesn't do a good job at it.
[doublepost=1472227598][/doublepost]

Yep! This is KEY! Anything you can do on the Surface, you can do on a Mac (and really the only thing Macs can't do, out of the box, is draw on the screen). Now, it may be more accurate to say "It's not as convienant to do on my Mac"...

I disagree, I'd say the tablet portion of the surface is arguably more what defines it, although it is certainly some type of a hybrid. This whole simplified workflow crap that I hear about iOS is silly. Windows 10 isn't difficult to use and it's not rocket science. There are areas where the workflow in windows is more difficult, but by the same token there are areas in iOS where the simplicity actually makes it more complicated. I reject the notion of the best tablet being one that runs dumbed down apps with a huge green go button and a huge red stop button as its only UI, to hear some talk you'd think this app actually existed and trumped a windows program.

Conversely to compare an ipad to a laptop is not in the same ballpark, not even close. Just a few major points such as file system and mouse support put that to rest quite quickly, although the list is probably much longer than that. That's why Apple's push to make the ipad seem like a laptop is so comical.

 

[Fernandez21]

The surface line is cool (especially the surface pro), but i find its a swiss army approach. I feel my MacBook is a better laptop than the surface, and my iPad pro is a better tablet. Now if your willing to sacrifice a little on both to have everything in one device, then the surface line is right up your ally.

 

[Michael Goff]

Do you know what the Surface does better than either the iPad or the Mac? Split screen.