I think you may be missing touch mode in windows 10. It has tiles and is nearly indestinguishable from windows 8.1. https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/5313/windows-10-tip-master-tablet-mode
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Surface ad claims can't do it on my mac
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So wrong on many levels. Apple's 2016 split view might look like an identical copy of Samsung's 2012 side pop-out vertical scrolling menu implementation but it's very limited in functionality in comparison. Apple has very limited 3rd party apps support while Samsung works with many more 3rd party apps. Apple is limited to two windows and maybe a PiP video while Samsung can do two windows and two PiP videos. Apple is more like task switching since usually only one window is active at a time while Samsung is true multitasking with all windows active. Also, Samsung can run services like file and media server in the background which Apple can't do. Samsung 2016 implementation is even more capable with six active windows.
Say Hello to Samsung 2012 split view menu that Apple copied in 2016
Four active windows (Google Maps, JuiceSSH, Twitch.tv stream and movie playback) on Samsung 2012
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Win32 apps can be hard to navigate with your finger. Though it's really a moot point, because 99.456% of the time, when I'm using a Win32 app, I'm using the keyboard and trackpad. I only use it purely as a tablet for tablet specific tasks that have appropriate apps, such as browsing the internet, reading Kindle, watching Netflix, and whatnot.
So wrong on many levels. On the surface, Apple's 2016 split view might look like an identical copy of Samsung's 2012 side pop-out vertical scrolling menu implementation but it's very limited in functionality in comparison. Apple has very limited 3rd party apps support while Samsung works with many more 3rd party apps. Apple is limited to two windows and maybe a PiP video while Samsung can do two windows and two PiP videos. Apple is more like task switching since usually only one window is active at a time while Samsung is true multitasking with all windows active. Also, Samsung can run services like file and media server in the background which Apple can't do. Samsung 2016 implementation is even more capable with six active windows.
Say Hello to Samsung 2012 split view menu that Apple copied in 2016
Four active windows (Google Maps, JuiceSSH, Twitch.tv stream and movie playback) on Samsung 2012
Have fun using two PiP and two Windows on a screen that's maybe 5.7". The UX disaster of a feature is laughable at best. Maybe a tablet, sure, but a phone with two tiny apps and then two video boxes? Ugh.
We've heard all the apologies. Remember when you didn't need more than 3.5" or stylus? You'll switch your tune when Apple copies it.
I never said we didn't need more than 3.5", nor did I rail against the stylus. And I don't care who makes it. I've argued against PiP on the Plus model iPhone. Stop pretending I'm saying this just because Samsung did it. I didn't even use it in my S6. Ran well, but was not a good experience.
Yes but split screens on an external monitor work quite well. But I also use multiple windows on my Note smartphone itself and works great. Tablets also have the same functionality. I disagree that split screen on a phone is bad, totally. But once again the phone comment was more facetious than anything and you missed my point.
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While I do agree, it's a moot point. Which one of those windows legacy programs can be used on the ipad? None, zero, zilch. Those legacy programs are an option, a choice, and a damn fine one at that. Give me choice, or no choice, and I'll choose choice every time. You're also correct that a user can fall back to the trackpad. But as you say if I'm hunkering down to do work on a x86 program then I'm most likely going to be connecting a mouse and putting my surface into laptop mode. All the major stuff, video, movies, music, etc is well covered within the touch paradigm.
What was your point, then? That iOS split screen has a lot of work ahead of it? That Microsoft does it better? Seriously, I'm much more interested in what Microsoft brings to the table with RS2 and mobile than Android. That'll be the multi-screen experience you just talked about. And with UWP, you'll be running scaled up apps.
My point was that split screen mode on iOS is completely and utterly trounced by windows on windows. UWP doesn't impress me in the least, without x86 support the surface phone is dead on arrival. Plus UWP has stupid restrictions on split screen, stupid because they are tablet like. So they want us to treat UWP like using our phone on a desktop, but then hamstring things to act like we are on a phone or tablet.
That's why I say I'm looking forward to RS2, which supposedly focuses on mobile (and as such, continuum). Can't say I have a lot of problems with UWP, but I get your point. They need to make it able to be windowed like we expect in an OS named "Windows". Just because I can deal with split screen the way it is in the iPad doesn't mean everyone wants to.
Also, I should probably end up buying a Pixel C at some point to see how Nougat does split screen and windowing to see how well it works. Android the desktop OS would have been the next stop if they didn't seem intent on making Chrome OS a thing.
I didn't want it to seem like I'm making your choice look bad, if it works for you then great. I'm highly interested in what they do with RS2 as well, but I think continuum will be a massive failure, but that's just my opinion. Nougat does split screen decently, not that much different than Apple at the end of the day. It's still pretty neat to use though. But Google seems like they can't pick a direction and commit to it. Android, then Chrome OS and now they are rumored to be working on another OS. If Google put all their resources into one OS, one messaging app, etc. they could clean up IMO.
I don't know why people think I'm ignorant of Windows 10 features - I've been using it for almost a year and a half as a Windows Insider. I know all about Tablet Mode - and there are TONS of differences. If you don't notice, then I'm happy you are enjoying the experience. I am not.
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Again, thank you but I am FAR from ignorant to Windows 10. Yes, I have the Anniversary update and the ONLY positive thing they added was the "swipe to go back" in Edge (which, again, blows because far too often I swipe to go back and I end up swiping in the wrong place and bring up the zones applications).
Microsoft may have put a lot of work into Windows 10 and it's an excellent OS - their best yet... For desktop and laptop users. Tablet Mode does nothing for me to make it better to use as a tablet. It spends most of it's time as a laptop because of this.
This is totally the mentality that Microsoft built Windows 10 on. "I'm fine with my Desktop mode and Start Menu". I'm glad Windows 10 is working for so many people, but it's NOT for me. It's strayed from the Windows 8 mindset I fell for. Windows 8 was FAR from perfect, but it was the right direction - but people couldn't change and couldn't live without a Start menu so now we have Windows 10 - Same old UI with some enhancements here and there.
Some of the things you said were not correct about windows, I thought maybe you had not tried the anniversary update. But I understand if you don't like windows, not everyone can like everything. The ipad definitely sounds more suited to you.
Microsoft pitted SP with the iPad on its early marketing materials, and it failed. As a tablet, SP just cannot offer the user experience of a tablet-first device like the iPad. Microsoft changed their marketing strategy into pitting the SP against Macbooks, highlighting the touch and pen capabilities, which appropriate. SP is basically a laptop (where you have to pay extra for the keyboard) with stylus capability. Pretty much all people with Surfaces that I see around me uses it as a laptop. Many don't even bother bringing the stylus fearing they would lose it.
I have the Surface Pro 4. I tried using it as is while waiting for the keyboard to arrive, and it just doesn't cut it. It's Windows, and even in its supposedly tablet mode, the apps you are using are not cutting it. Microsoft basically tried to up their margin by selling a laptop and its keyboard separately.
To MS credit, they "fixed" it with the Surface Book.
If you want a tablet experience, an iPad will go further. If you want a laptop, a typical ultrabook will be cheaper than the Surface Pro. But if you are one of those niche users where you want a Windows laptop with occasional stylus capability, the SP fits your needs.
If one wants a tablet first with stylus, and iPad Pro with Pencil will probably be a better solution. Right now, the issue with iPad Pro is the lag time for developers to bring the pro apps.
I have the Surface Pro 4. I tried using it as is while waiting for the keyboard to arrive, and it just doesn't cut it. It's Windows, and even in its supposedly tablet mode, the apps you are using are not cutting it. Microsoft basically tried to up their margin by selling a laptop and its keyboard separately.
To MS credit, they "fixed" it with the Surface Book.
If you want a tablet experience, an iPad will go further. If you want a laptop, a typical ultrabook will be cheaper than the Surface Pro. But if you are one of those niche users where you want a Windows laptop with occasional stylus capability, the SP fits your needs.
If one wants a tablet first with stylus, and iPad Pro with Pencil will probably be a better solution. Right now, the issue with iPad Pro is the lag time for developers to bring the pro apps.
A few I think, The detachable keyboard (most tend to have a reversing type of keyboard. Also on some of the models, you get a dual GPU and then (and this what I like), no crapware. Basically a vanilla clean OS. Plus its my perception that updates should work better, since its MS updates on MS hardware - again that's perception and may not be grounded in reality.
Yeah mostly. I remember Thurrott making comments on how Microsoft is a company of extremes. When they went to Win8, it was all in with tablets and completely ignoring the desktop experience. With the high level of criticism and low acceptance rates of win8, they swung the other way and went all in with the desktop, largely ignoring the tablet.
Yes, and the early surface pros (original and the 2) were not as good as the 3. MS hit their stride with the Surface Pro 3, and they marketed that as a laptop replacement.
I've been looking for a new mobile machine, and once that has prevented me from buying say a Dell XPS for about 800, is the fact that the keyboard doesn't come off or reverse (AFAIK). There's the Lenovo Yoga but that appears to be using a Core m processor and other laptops that have similar features as the SurfaceBook are priced at the SB price point, i.e., I'm not really saving any money.
Icons - adjust the resolution and/o scaling, and you'll have larger icons. I don't run my SP3 at its native resolution and everything is nicely sized.
File Managment is as easy or complicated as you want. Windows 10 will default (like OS X) to a number of prebuilt locations, so you can easily store your documents in a single place. I think file management in Windows is (and always was) light years ahead of OS X, and of course iOS (since its non-existant there)
Application UI, maybe its me, but I'd rather not run Photoshop or other apps in tablet mode. Tablet mode can be nice in some circumstance, but I guess for my usage patterns I prefer the keyboard attached. Just my $.02
The anniversary update was a positive step in so far as it did not totally disrupt my computer, like the unrequested Windows 10 update did. I have seen several reviews of Win 10 Anniversary and can not find a single interesting feature: emoji keyboard? sticky notes? notifiaction bs? cortana improvements? MS needs to revisit the basics: power management, sleep and hibernate (and wake!), rationalize the ecosystem and stop changing stuff that breaks functionality. Sorry MR for this windows tangent
I still don't see how iOS is "easier". Many things confuse me, like saying the start button means windows is more desktop oriented. I don't get it. The windows button is about the size of an icon, the windows start menu is nice and large and touch friendly, Tiles have live information and can range from large to huge. It seems like many just give up instead of learning a new paradigm, and then blame that paradigm for being faulty when it's just different.
I didn't read the 7 or so pages of replies here. But I feel like your initial post is missing the point. The point of the surface line is an all in one device. For example (since people argue the ludicrous idea that a surface pro isn't a full fledged PC), take the surface book. Comparable price to the MacBook pro, but it can in fact so more....period. It's a laptop first, that can double as a tablet when need be. I'd argue it's every bit the laptop as the mac, but as a pure tablet it is indeed inferior to the iPad pro. That being said....it's an all in one device. It can do the job, rather well, of the iPad pro and msc combo, and it's a lot cheaper than buying said combo. That's the purpose of the surface line, so keep your agreement in that relm. Fair is fair. You don't see me arguing that a full fledged windows desktop and walcom whatever tablet is a better solution than an iPad pro. Different products.
Also, some said the surface line doesnt have the customer support that Apple does. That's simply untrue. Lots a people dont live near an apple store, and in that case the customer support is equal. I know first hand on both accounts.
The second Apple adds a touchscreen to its MacBook line, Apple fans will love it.
Disclaimer: I'm platform agnostics. I am currently fly rocking a note 7, iPad pro 9.7 with pencil, windows 10 desktop (it's a besuty), and a surface book (which may be replaced soon by an XPS 13).
***Microsoft will do advanced exchanges, you just have to ask***
Agreed and I seem to be moving away from the Apple laptop platform, and the lack of touch screen is one reason. I'd love to see Apple embrace the touch screen in a laptop, its so useful.
I looked at the XP13 vs. the SurfaceBook. Why are you contemplating the XPS over the SB. For me, I think the ability to act like a tablet in some cases was the feature that pushed it over the edge for me.
Sure.
The surface book is a really great device, maybe the best laptop I have ever owned (and ive owned both 15 and 13 in MacBook pros). Windows 10 is great and hardware is great. Great battery life and a dgpu when needed (I can play overwatch at a low setting). The hybrid/tablet functionality is great, though I used it predominantly has a laptop. The pen is wonderful too; the latency is barely more than the Apple pencil (not enough to make a difference, I didn't notice, my buddy claims this), but the battery is superior and the rubber on glass feel is preferable, imo, then the plastic Apple pencil.
If you had asked me a month ago, I wound not be considering moving away from the surface book. But I recently built a high end desktop gaming/work PC. I find that I really prefer the power, larger screen size, and full fledged mouse and keyboard. It makes office work and Adobe work that much faster. I also have an iPad pro 9.7 with Apple pencil, which size wise is more convenient for note taking on the go.
So I am honestly not using the surface book enough to justify its cost. The skylake version of the XPS 13 appears to have fixed the few issues I had with last years model, and now it's arguably the best pure 13in laptop on the market . Combine that with its super compact design and screen, and I think it's a compelling package. I am a frugal person. I just received the XPS 13 i7, qhd, touchscreen model, this morning. I got it it used, perfect condition from b&h, for several hundred less than its MSRP. Honestly a crazy deal, couldn't even find a deal near that on eBay.
If the XPS 13 is good enough to do the job that I use the surface book for, I'll stand to make a decent amount of money off selling the surface book.
So sorry for the long reply, but tldr: the possible move from the surface book to the XPS 13 is driven price, my personal needs, and the ecosystem of devices I am actively using now.
Hope that long winded response helps bud.
Thanks,
Yes there is a large price difference between the XPS 13 and the SB, so much so, I was considering the Dell, but I like what the SB offers. I'm looking at the base model, because this is secondary machine. All my heavy lifting is on my iMac. I think 1,199 (edu pricing) is more justifiable then the 1,500 to 1,800 prices for the dGPU models.
The only thing is the meager storage. For a secondary machine though I think 128GB will be more then enough, give my intended uses.
Isn't the base model an i3?
The surface pro 4 is a really good machine, I hear, and equal to the surfacebook performance wise (unless you have the dGPU model). The battery life is less, but so is the price. I hear the new type cover is really nice.
On slickdeals I have seen the i5 4gb 128ssd for ~$628, and the i5, 8gb, 256gb for ~$828 or so. Just a thought.
I've got a Surface Book and it's easily the best laptop I've ever owned - I did have a 15" MBP Retina but it's very bulky compared to the SB and the 13" MBPs are underpowered without a dedicated graphics processor. Like you, I'm platform agnostic and pick the best tool for the job: On my desk I've got a 27" iMac, the Surface Book and a 12.9" iPad Pro - they're all great at what they do best
If there's one thing that'd give me pause over going with an SB, it'd be the rather short battery life of the tablet portion. Granted, that not it's primary use, so it can get away with it somewhat, but the estimated 2 1/2 - 3 hour lifespan is just a little too short if I want to do something like binge on some movies, or get into a book.
This is something I hope will be expanded upon with the inevitable SB2. If they could eek 4-5 hours out of it, I'd be thrilled.
Yeah,
I saw that as well, and some reviewers mentioned this as a short coming of the SB