Surface Book not twice as fast, it's THREE times faster than MBP for gaming

[Queen6]

Macs have never been for gamers though...even now, people bootcamp to Windows to play.

I really don't think it makes sense for Apple to try and change that now..

It`s not about gaming, some need the dGPU for far more than "Cal of Duty" Apple are sadly closing down the options, equally 2016 is still open for the time being...

Q-6

 

[David58117]

There's a reason why Macs have never been for gamers:

Exactly.

It would make no sense for Apple to try and change it now.

I think the subset who would purchase the hardware needed is probably pretty small, and like the video said, hardcore gamers aren't the Apple culture..

 

[TechZeke]

The only problem with an eGPU is the bandwidth. Insufficient bandwidth can only be overcome with compression, which requires more CPU power, which is very undesirable on a laptop. Really, Apple should make a mid-range desktop with an i7 CPU and replaceable, RAM, GPU, and CPU for around $1,500. The fact that they don't make anything like that or even the classic Mac Pro is probably why they don't care about Hackintoshes anymore.

Its a huge weak spot in the Mac line. Its one extreme or the other; Spend $2000 to get a half decent GPU and buy a new screen everytime you upgrade or spend $600 on a dual core Mac Mini.

I can't help but feel that they'd never make a cheaper Mac Pro with consumer parts because they know that half the people buying the 27" iMacs are doing it because they want decent GPU performance. If Apple offered a slightly smaller Mac Pro with a 6700K and dual M395s for $1500 no one would buy an iMac.

I do like my current setup with having a separate gaming PC, but I much prefer OS X for everything besides gaming and wish I could do everything on one machine.

 

[jblagden]

Its a huge weak spot in the Mac line. Its one extreme or the other; Spend $2000 to get a half decent GPU and buy a new screen everytime you upgrade or spend $600 on a dual core Mac Mini.

I can't help but feel that they'd never make a cheaper Mac Pro with consumer parts because they know that half the people buying the 27" iMacs are doing it because they want decent GPU performance. If Apple offered a slightly smaller Mac Pro with a 6700K and dual M395s for $1500 no one would buy an iMac.

I do like my current setup with having a separate gaming PC, but I much prefer OS X for everything besides gaming and wish I could do everything on one machine.

That's why I'm thinking about building a Hackintosh in a year or two. That way, I could have powerful and upgradeable hardware (two things Apple doesn't like anymore) and still be able to use Mac OS X for everything. I've read that Hackintoshes can be pretty stable as long as you don't get major upgrades as soon as they're released. I would go with a MSI motherboard (10 year lifespan), a 512GB Samsung NVMe SSD, a 3.5 GHz i5(or then-current $250 Intel-CPU), 8GB of RAM, a 2 TB Seagate hard drive, and a GTX 960 (or whatever Nvidia GPU is $200 at that time). I'm not sure about the case or CPU cooler. It seems like a lot of folks use Gigabyte motherboards and end up with audio issues.

 

[TechZeke]

That's why I'm thinking about building a Hackintosh in a year or two. That way, I could have powerful and upgradeable hardware (two things Apple doesn't like anymore) and still be able to use Mac OS X for everything. I've read that Hackintoshes can be pretty stable as long as you don't get major upgrades as soon as they're released. I would go with a MSI motherboard (10 year lifespan), a 512GB Samsung NVMe SSD, a 3.5 GHz i5(or then-current $250 Intel-CPU), 8GB of RAM, a 2 TB Seagate hard drive, and a GTX 970 (or whatever Nvidia GPU is $200 at that time). I'm not sure about the case or CPU cooler. It seems like a lot of folks use Gigabyte motherboards and end up with audio issues.

My gaming PC that I built over the holidays is pretty similar. 4690K, 512GB 850 EVO SSD, GTX 970, and 16GB RAM.

GTX 970 is a $300 card. Also, RAM is so cheap now that I'd just go straight to 16GB. (It actually ended up being worth it, as Cities Skylines really eat up RAM when you pile on the mods)

I haven't had any issues so far with my Gigabyte Z79X Gaming 3 MB and seems to be working flawlessly so far. For case I use a corsair Air 540. The air flow of this case combined with the Windforce GTX 970 keeps the GPU core at 60 degrees C under load.

I just used the stock cooler that came with the 4690K since I don't overclock. For skylake you will need to buy a separate cooler regardless though.

 

[jblagden]

My gaming PC that I built over the holidays is pretty similar. 4690K, 512GB 850 EVO SSD, GTX 970, and 16GB RAM.

GTX 970 is a $300 card. Also, RAM is so cheap now that I'd just go straight to 16GB. (It actually ended up being worth it, as Cities Skylines really eat up RAM when you pile on the mods)

I haven't had any issues so far with mu Gigabyte Z79X Gaming 3 MB and seems to be working flawlessly so far. For case I use a corsair Air 540. The air flow of this case combined with the Windforce GTX 970 keeps the GPU core at 60 degrees C under load.

Okay. Regarding the GTX 970, that was a typo. I meant to say GTX 960. I'll fix that.
[doublepost=1454532295][/doublepost]

Okay. Regarding the GTX 970, that was a typo. I meant to say GTX 960. I'll fix that.

For the case, I've been thinking about going with either the NZXT Phantom 410 (for looks), Rosewill Galaxy 002 (for cost) or the Rosewill Redbone (also, for cost). For the cooler, I'm thinking about the Cooler Master TX3 because it looks like a good inexpensive cooler. A lot of gamers would recommend liquid cooling, but I don't want to get into the hassle or expense of liquid cooling. I thought I read somewhere that the "k" CPUs don't come with coolers.

 

[Seed101]

Personally, looking at the Surface Book, it's appealing on a few fronts.

I need a laptop that can run After Effects at a decent level for when I freelance occasionally 'in house' and they don't have a computer spare...and I'd like a device I can draw directly into for illo's/comics in AI/PS.

So, from the outside the Surface Book looks good...

To stay in the Mac sphere, I'm looking at an I-pad pro+astropad+ rMBP when(if!)!the update hits...or rMBP+Wacom...

Decisions, decisions...

 

[duervo]

I got an iPad Pro a few weeks ago. I was on the fence between it and a Surface Pro 4 for quite some time. It was the pencil in the end that won me over. More specifically, the noticeable lower latency and better ability of the Apple offering to do actual circles as opposed to Microsoft's solution.

The surface book doesn't sit very well with me. The specs aren't bad, but there were two things in particular that took it off my short list: 1. I don't like the gap between display and keyboard with it when it's closed. It seems like a huge waste of space to me in a backpack. 2. Cost is prohibitive to me.

I stopped seriously gaming on mobile devices years ago. I'm pretty picky when it comes to frame rates at higher quality. Something that desktop PCs will always excel at compared to a mobile device. So, I have a custom PC for that purpose. In fact, my next PC build is going to be a wall-mounted one, with liquid cooling. Something like this (still in design phase right now) but without the custom liquid cooling. I'm most likely going to go with an integrated system, like one of the Corsair Hydro series products:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1424387/gallery-build-log-ultimate-wall-mount-rig-maxxplanck-v2-completed

Complete with carbon fibre wrap. Maybe put some flame decals on it. Then some racing stripes. You know ... Stuff that will make it go really, really extra fast.

It's going to be legendary.

 

[Seed101]

I got an iPad Pro a few weeks ago. I was on the fence between it and a Surface Pro 4 for quite some time. It was the pencil in the end that won me over. More specifically, the noticeable lower latency and better ability of the Apple offering to do actual circles as opposed to Microsoft's solution.

The surface book doesn't sit very well with me. The specs aren't bad, but there were two things in particular that took it off my short list: 1. I don't like the gap between display and keyboard with it when it's closed. It seems like a huge waste of space to me in a backpack. 2. Cost is prohibitive to me.

I stopped seriously gaming on mobile devices years ago. I'm pretty picky when it comes to frame rates at higher quality. Something that desktop PCs will always excel at compared to a mobile device. So, I have a custom PC for that purpose. In fact, my next PC build is going to be a wall-mounted one, with liquid cooling. Something like this (still in design phase right now) but without the custom liquid cooling. I'm most likely going to go with an integrated system, like one of the Corsair Hydro series products:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1424387/gallery-build-log-ultimate-wall-mount-rig-maxxplanck-v2-completed

Complete with carbon fibre wrap. Maybe put some flame decals on it. Then some racing stripes. You know ... Stuff that will make it go really, really extra fast.

It's going to be legendary.

Have you used Astropad at all?
Or do you just the apps on the iPad pro?

 

[maflynn]

To stay in the Mac sphere, I'm looking at an I-pad pro+astropad+ rMBP when(if!)!the update hits...or rMBP+Wacom...

I've only seen positive remarks regarding the iPad Pro and Astropad in the iPad forum, if that helps any.

 

[Neodym]

Want to game get a tower based system. Some cheap and good ones out there in the full range of tower sizes. They don't have to be the monster towers of doom anymore. Some are even "shoeboxish" in size. Or get a console.

Only that if you can't / don't want to go missing in your computer room / basement vault and the TV is blocked by kids or wife or you simply prefer games not available / not suitable for consoles, then being able to casually game on your laptop is a very nice option.

Yes, you can't necessarily play in 4k at ultra settings, but that's usually not the point for a casual gamer.

Plus, you don't need to pay for yet another device sitting around and sipping on power, if the one device you have anyway for your computing needs does also double as - sufficiently potent - gaming resource from time to time.

The only problem with an eGPU is the bandwidth. Insufficient bandwidth can only be overcome with compression, which requires more CPU power, which is very undesirable on a laptop.

Even with Thunderbolt2, the theoretical bandwith limit is negligible in most cases (at least that's what you can read in forums and tests). With TB3, the problem would be even smaller, if still existent at all.

 

[Closingracer]

From a purely hardware standpoint, to be fair, they should have loaded Windows 10 onto their MBP 13" and compared performance from that point of view. I suspect that if they had done that, they would have seen results closer to Microsoft's "twice as fast" claims.

The differences in software no doubt played a supporting role in the cause of the discrepancies being noted.

As a result, it's difficult for me to take their review seriously.

Almost makes me want to /facepalm.

But one requires to spend money on a windows license as well so out of the box comparisons Microsofts comparisons is valid imo

 

[hiddenmarkov]

Only that if you can't / don't want to go missing in your computer room / basement vault and the TV is blocked by kids or wife or you simply prefer games not available / not suitable for consoles, then being able to casually game on your laptop is a very nice option.

Yes, you can't necessarily play in 4k at ultra settings, but that's usually not the point for a casual gamer.

Plus, you don't need to pay for yet another device sitting around and sipping on power, if the one device you have anyway for your computing needs does also double as - sufficiently potent - gaming resource from time to time.


Even with Thunderbolt2, the theoretical bandwith limit is negligible in most cases (at least that's what you can read in forums and tests). With TB3, the problem would be even smaller, if still existent at all.

And MBP in its current states does this decent. For what is has to work with. gamers want game oriented graphics card. I tbh and others would like something more content creation card like. End of day a gamer card does not do content creation as well as a content card. Nor does a content creation play games as well as a game card. MBP walks a tight rope between these 2 interests.



I am in the scenario at times you present at times as well to be honest. I just except caveats graphics will not be as good on PC based systems. In this case I just get selective with games or worst case grind through the crappy experience if the game has enough to make it worth the pain as it were.

My usual signs of hope are firaxis ports. they have been very good to us port wise imo. I know they have employees show up here on the boards...to them I say keep it up and thanks if they read this.

Or blizzard. I have loved and hated blizzard through the years for varied reasons....but even in the hate phases I will give them kudos for caring a fair bit about the Mac OS gamers experience. Even found myself firing up D3 and getting into the expansion of late to relive old times with new twists. Am I getting less FPS/whiz bang effects than PC, probably. Concern to me? Not really. D3 my enemy is the RNG gods really. yesterday I won...3 legendary drops in 30 minutes. Some nights....RNG gives me nothing but crap lol.


Not these 2 vendors....I get wary tbh. I have graveyards of steam games who have lived mere 30 minutes on my system. Install, fire up badly (if at all), google to fix the issue if I can. If google doesn't help....right click uninstall. Maybe try again when(if) they patch later. Wasn't graphics...it was the wrapping. Or how the mac os works with it.

To be honest graphics the least of my issues. I miss a plethora of mod to play with more tbh. this is what limits Mac os gaming potential in my opinion. either the game is locked in some from PC versions or if possible there is no strong modder presense to take advantage of it. Graphics not key to me (a polished turd is, well, still a turd). replay ability is. Mods add to that as with some kick ass mods...the replay can be anything but SSDD.



Steam a kind of ray of light here as mac os ports can get modded. Issue is not all modders play in that sandbox sadly. Nor are all my games steam based.

 

[duervo]

Have you used Astropad at all?
Or do you just the apps on the iPad pro?

While somewhat intrigued by what astropad claims to bring to the table, I have not yet tried it. The OS X system that sees the most use in my house right now is a Mac mini that just serves up iTunes content to other devices in the home, and the odd desktop-mirrored-to-the-TV once in a while. So, it doesn't really get a lot of traditional "desktop" usage.

 

[jlc1978]

While somewhat intrigued by what astropad claims to bring to the table, I have not yet tried it. The OS X system that sees the most use in my house right now is a Mac mini that just serves up iTunes content to other devices in the home, and the odd desktop-mirrored-to-the-TV once in a while. So, it doesn't really get a lot of traditional "desktop" usage.

I use Astro pad find it useful; especially since it provides an inexpensive way to use my iPad Pro for graphics which, for my limited use, is better than buying a Wacom tablet.

Oddly enough, my ancient Core2 Mac Mini is use exactly the same way to serve up video on a NAS.