Surface Pro 3 marketing woes and review round up

[Renzatic]

I think its a great product but I'm less convinced it can be a laptop replacement for some (many) people unless you full flesh out what it can do very well and its short comings.

It's an awesome tablet, I don't get why people say differently, but that's just my opinion. I bought mine as a 75% tablet, 25% laptop device.

My personal opinion? I think it's potential for awesomeness centers mostly on how much mileage you intend on getting out of the stylus. If you plan on using the stylus more often than not, it is a far better deal than an MBA or an iPad. It's thin, it's light, and it has the power to do a goodly amount of heavy graphics work.

I've heard of people doing full sculpts in Zbrush on an SP2 without any issues. That's impressive. And the touch friendly SP3 specfic rev of Photoshop definitely sweetens the deal. For this type of work, there isn't much out there that can match the Pro 3 for a light, on the go solution.

But for everything else, it's merely alright at best, and that's the biggest problem with it. For the Surface Pro line to really succeed against the likes of the solid jack-of-all-trade traditional laptops like the MBA, it needs to have its own strengths, but no comparative weaknesses. In other words, it can be better at some things than the competition, but it can't be any worse at everything else.

That's where it fails. It's not a bad machine at all, but it's too specifically aimed at one particular niche to be a widespread success. It needs to be good at art, and typing documents, and spread sheets, and so on and so on for it to truly succeed.

 

[sracer]

My personal opinion? I think it's potential for awesomeness centers mostly on how much mileage you intend on getting out of the stylus. If you plan on using the stylus more often than not, it is a far better deal than an MBA or an iPad. It's thin, it's light, and it has the power to do a goodly amount of heavy graphics work.

I've heard of people doing full sculpts in Zbrush on an SP2 without any issues. That's impressive. And the touch friendly SP3 specfic rev of Photoshop definitely sweetens the deal. For this type of work, there isn't much out there that can match the Pro 3 for a light, on the go solution.

But for everything else, it's merely alright at best, and that's the biggest problem with it. For the Surface Pro line to really succeed against the likes of the solid jack-of-all-trade traditional laptops like the MBA, it needs to have its own strengths, but no comparative weaknesses. In other words, it can be better at some things than the competition, but it can't be any worse at everything else.

That's where it fails. It's not a bad machine at all, but it's too specifically aimed at one particular niche to be a widespread success. It needs to be good at art, and typing documents, and spread sheets, and so on and so on for it to truly succeed.

I've bolded what I agree is the heart of the matter. What it comes down to is Microsoft convincing me that an SP3 provides an equal or better experience than an iPad + MBA.

 

[MozMan68]

My personal opinion? I think it's potential for awesomeness centers mostly on how much mileage you intend on getting out of the stylus. If you plan on using the stylus more often than not, it is a far better deal than an MBA or an iPad. It's thin, it's light, and it has the power to do a goodly amount of heavy graphics work.

I've heard of people doing full sculpts in Zbrush on an SP2 without any issues. That's impressive. And the touch friendly SP3 specfic rev of Photoshop definitely sweetens the deal. For this type of work, there isn't much out there that can match the Pro 3 for a light, on the go solution.

But for everything else, it's merely alright at best, and that's the biggest problem with it. For the Surface Pro line to really succeed against the likes of the solid jack-of-all-trade traditional laptops like the MBA, it needs to have its own strengths, but no comparative weaknesses. In other words, it can be better at some things than the competition, but it can't be any worse at everything else.

That's where it fails. It's not a bad machine at all, but it's too specifically aimed at one particular niche to be a widespread success. It needs to be good at art, and typing documents, and spread sheets, and so on and so on for it to truly succeed.

Ummmm...it runs FULL Office...not some watered down tablet version while also providing the pen for great note taking and awesome graphics work capabilities.

 

[Renzatic]

Ummmm...it runs FULL Office...not some watered down tablet version while also providing the pen for great note taking and awesome graphics work capabilities.

Yeah, it has its perks, I won't deny that. But the question is, is it as overall comfortable to use Office 2013 on a Surface Pro 3 as it would be on a bootcamped MBA? Is it as easy to type up a document on the go?

I could see some situations where the SP3 would actually work better. But they're too specific. Too conditional. The MBA works well everywhere for that type of work.

 

[maflynn]

Yeah, it has its perks, I won't deny that. But the question is, is it as overall comfortable to use Office 2013 on a Surface Pro 3 as it would be on a bootcamped MBA? Is it as easy to type up a document on the go?

I think that's the salient point. What does the SP3 give you using office over an MBA (or in my case MBP) running windows via bootcamp.

I always seem to run into niggling issues with apple's bootcamp drivers, and sleep issues. While this can occur(generic driver issues) with any computer you would hope that the SP3 being a MS product would not have these.

I think for office uses, such what I need, a real laptop keyboard is better then the typcover for extended input or uses.

 

[sracer]

Now there are reports of the kickstand "creeping". A condition where the kickstand doesn't hold it's position but slowly opens increasing the angle until it is in full open position. That was a concern of mine when I heard they did away with the clickable positions.

...soon to be dubbed, "creepergate".

 

[maflynn]

Now there are reports of the kickstand "creeping". A condition where the kickstand doesn't hold it's position but slowly opens increasing the angle until it is in full open position.

That was my concern as well, not somthing that would occur on day 1 but rather after months of use. I hope those reports you see are more of the exception then rule.

Do you have any links regarding this?

 

[nixiemaiden]

That was my concern as well, not somthing that would occur on day 1 but rather after months of use. I hope those reports you see are more of the exception then rule.

Do you have any links regarding this?

^^

I want to see a link as well. I haven't read anything so far that has convinced me that this isn't for me, but that might be it.

 

[maflynn]

^^

I want to see a link as well. I haven't read anything so far that has convinced me that this isn't for me, but that might be it.

I found this one thread on the wpcentral
http://forums.wpcentral.com/microsoft-surface-pro-3/291862-creeping-kick-stand.html

There's two people in the 8 post thread that are reporting this. At this stage, its too early to say its a design issue vs. manufacturing defect.

 

[sracer]

I found this one thread on the wpcentral
http://forums.wpcentral.com/microsoft-surface-pro-3/291862-creeping-kick-stand.html

There's two people in the 8 post thread that are reporting this. At this stage, its too early to say its a design issue vs. manufacturing defect.

That's where I saw it too. Historically, WPCentral has been the place to go to get the early news on what later becomes more widely known. Every issue that I've experienced with my Surface devices, I first heard about others experiencing them there.

I want to see a link as well. I haven't read anything so far that has convinced me that this isn't for me, but that might be it.

I suggest that the chronic issues with connected standby, and TypeCover not being recognized (resolved only by detaching and reattaching the keyboard) are greater indicators of Microsoft's inability to resolve Surface issues.
Those 2 in particular have been problems with every generation of Surface device regardless of architecture (ARM vs Intel).

 

[nixiemaiden]

True. I guess what is good about it is that if it is happening after only a week, it is still within the return window. That would absolutely suck to start happening after 6 months though.

 

[sracer]

True. I guess what is good about it is that if it is happening after only a week, it is still within the return window. That would absolutely suck to start happening after 6 months though.

I think there is a great likelihood of it happening within 6 months of daily use.

Another data point... Panay showed in a presentation for the 2nd gen devices (and in the presentation befor that for 1st gen) how the keyboard covers can fold back on the Surface to quickly go into "tablet mode". There were 2 problems with that design... with TypeCovers, keys would get caught on things (dirt and grit would wedge in between keys if placed on a table in that configuration). The other was that the folding forward and backward of the cover caused the wires in the hinge to break with fatigue.

I never used mine that way, I would pop off the cover, flip it around and reattach so that the keys were protected and the hinge folded in the same direction.

 

[nixiemaiden]

I suggest that the chronic issues with connected standby, and TypeCover not being recognized (resolved only by detaching and reattaching the keyboard) are greater indicators of Microsoft's inability to resolve Surface issues.
Those 2 in particular have been problems with every generation of Surface device regardless of architecture (ARM vs Intel).

I have issues with everything though. If my mac mini goes to sleep while it is on the login screen, I have to hard power it off to get it back on. With my windows 7 laptop I am constantly having issues with the wifi where I have to go into windows troubleshooter to repair it. Sometimes I get crashes on my iPad, sometimes when I use my husbands Nexus because it is what is next to me I will get crashes. I get that technology isn't perfect (especially software). Small things that are annoying like having to detach and reattach a keyboard or issues that can be resolved by a quick reboot don't really bother me because I pretty much expect them.

A hardware issue like the kickstand loosening up and basically making the thing unusable though would be a deal breaker to me. To be honest, I would probably use it at a desk with the screen as high as it can go or on my lap with no kickstand as a tablet so maybe I wouldn't run into any issues. Still a lot of money for something as stupid as a kickstand to break.

 

[joshwithachance]

They shot themselves in the face by not including the keyboard cover with the Surfaces, because the device isn't all that great or useful without it.

 

[Night Spring]

Ummmm...it runs FULL Office...not some watered down tablet version while also providing the pen for great note taking and awesome graphics work capabilities.

That's funny, because one of my complaints against Surface is that there is no tablet version of Office. If I'm sitting at my desk, the desktop version of Office is fine, but in that case, there is no reason to switch from my MBA. The reason why I might want to switch to Surface is because it is also supposed to function as a tablet. And for it to function as a tablet, I want a tablet version of Office. Not a desktop version with a UI that was designed for keyboard and mouse, but one that is designed from the grounds up to be used with fingers.

 

[MozMan68]

That's funny, because one of my complaints against Surface is that there is no tablet version of Office. If I'm sitting at my desk, the desktop version of Office is fine, but in that case, there is no reason to switch from my MBA. The reason why I might want to switch to Surface is because it is also supposed to function as a tablet. And for it to function as a tablet, I want a tablet version of Office. Not a desktop version with a UI that was designed for keyboard and mouse, but one that is designed from the grounds up to be used with fingers.

Does the fact that you would use the onscreen keyboard and touch really make that much of a difference? It can do that as well....

What version of Office or iWork are you using where you don't have to type or use a cursor?

 

[Night Spring]

Does the fact that you would use the onscreen keyboard and touch really make that much of a difference? It can do that as well....

What version of Office or iWork are you using where you don't have to type or use a cursor?

Currently, I'm using Pages on the iPad, and it works well for me. In Win8 desktop, the controls often don't work on the first try. Like I once had to tap the close button several times before I finally got the program to close. Also, when trying to select items from the menu bar, it's easy to tap the item one up or one lower than the one I want. Other people may not have as big a problem, because I have mobility problems.

As for cursor, yes, that is one thing I sometimes miss while writing on iOS. Trying to position yourself in the exact spot you want in your document is often difficult. You end up one or two letters from where you want to be, and you're like, grrrrrrrrr, I want arrow keys! But everything else is designed for using with a finger. And because all apps are full screen, I don't have to close / minimize windows, I just exist the app and forget about it.

 

[sracer]

They shot themselves in the face by not including the keyboard cover with the Surfaces, because the device isn't all that great or useful without it.

Here's the ironic thing... Microsoft's solution for storing the pen is a glue-on pen loop that gets glued on to.... the "optional" TypeCover. If Microsoft genuinely believed that the Type Cover is optional, what is their plan for storing the pen when one doesn't have the cover?

 

[nixiemaiden]

Here's the ironic thing... Microsoft's solution for storing the pen is a glue-on pen loop that gets glued on to.... the "optional" TypeCover. If Microsoft genuinely believed that the Type Cover is optional, what is their plan for storing the pen when one doesn't have the cover?

Their plan is for you to lose the pen so you have to buy another

 

[Scarpad]

The sad thing is that had Microsoft included the keyboard, they probably would be selling a ton more SP3's. I was very close to getting one, but the marketing killed it. Every picture is showing the SP3 with the keyboard attached, a bestbuy salesman told me that I needed the keyboard if I was getting the SP3. If I need the keyboard, why isn't it simply included?

The true price of the SP3 starts at $930.
I only have an iPad mini at the moment and no laptop. I still can't get myself to drop the money. I think they did a great job on it though.

Just wait a bit as the scenario plays over and over at best buy as people walk away after learning the keyboard will cost them $130, the price will drop

 

[Michael Goff]

Here's the ironic thing... Microsoft's solution for storing the pen is a glue-on pen loop that gets glued on to.... the "optional" TypeCover. If Microsoft genuinely believed that the Type Cover is optional, what is their plan for storing the pen when one doesn't have the cover?

Sadly, they couldn't throw on something to hold it to the tablet because then it'd be "too thick". People want a thin device, as thin as possible, and they also want it to have things that would make it thicker.

 

[MozMan68]

Sadly, they couldn't throw on something to hold it to the tablet because then it'd be "too thick". People want a thin device, as thin as possible, and they also want it to have things that would make it thicker.

But they could have...all it would have taken was a very small, tight "loop" (even part of the casing) on one or both sides for the pen clip to slide into...not the entire pen.

 

[TheHateMachine]

They shot themselves in the face by not including the keyboard cover with the Surfaces, because the device isn't all that great or useful without it.

Speak for yourself, I've been using my Surface Pro 1 without the keyboard for at least a year as a replacement for my work laptop and it has worked just great.

 

[nixiemaiden]

Speak for yourself, I've been using my Surface Pro 1 without the keyboard for at least a year as a replacement for my work laptop and it has worked just great.

Do you use the on screen keyboard or a different keyboard?

Personally I would want a keyboard but I would be pissed if I bought it and then in a few months they release one of the keyboards with the extra battery in it.

 

[TheHateMachine]

Do you use the on screen keyboard or a different keyboard?

Personally I would want a keyboard but I would be pissed if I bought it and then in a few months they release one of the keyboards with the extra battery in it.

On Screen