Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:
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Switching due to CSAM is drastic and premature
- Thread starter crymimefireworks
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Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:
Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:
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Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:
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Still won't scratch the surface.
The battle for consumer desktops is over. The winners were Microsoft and Apple.
Consumers by and large are moving away from desktops now and going mobile.
Linux refers to the kernel.
The distribution is a curated desktop environment based around one or more desktop managers.
Again, posted by someone who doesn't actually understand what Linux is, and more importantly, is not.
"Linux" isn't a monolithic thing. It's not a distribution. It's a kernel - the low level code that provides the fundemental functionality applocations expect and require to run.
Understanding packages doesn't help when you're in a situation that a package expects a certain Kernel to be present.
Understanding packages doesn't help when you go from snap to AppImage to...whatever the latest new package manager is.
I cut my eye teeth on System V Unix nigh on 30 years ago now - and even did a nifty IPX/SPX integration allowing the Unix and Novell networks access to eachothers printers. I was a Korn shell maven and a vi goddess.
I love me some Linux based servers and have oodles of containers running at home, all of which require a Linux kernel at the base level.
I cannot stand Linux desktop though because everything is either a battle that I invariably give up on, or a compromise that results is reduced user functionality.
Absolutely. I know people who have used computers heavily in the past--and now mostly use a smart phone or tablet, with (maybe) a laptop for occasional heavier duty use. And I know at least one person who is very connected to the modern Internet who has nothing but a smart phone.
Desktop Linux works for me...but it helps that I have fairly modest needs. But I can remember many years ago when I felt compelled to keep an old Mac running for productivity work along with my Linux system--it was either that, or go crazy dealing with application software on Linux. For example, I intensely disliked--maybe despised is the better word?--OpenOffice back in the 1.x days. And I'm well aware that in the future, my needs might change, and I might need a commercial OS or commercial software.
And I got a reminder of how some need the functionality of commercial offerings a week ago. I saw a blind person, and he was using an iPhone. It was clear that with Siri, he was able to get stuff done, even though he was blind. I was impressed by how smoothly he was able to send an e-mail. This functionality is not something we can expect from a Linux phone. I'm guessing it's probably not something you can get even with "usable by mere mortals" deGoogled Android phone.
Again, I am happy with desktop Linux. But with technology, there is "mileage varies" component--different people, with different circumstances, have different needs.
I recently tried switching, and I gave it my full effort, but what I came away with was the following
1. MS office, and more specifically onedrive. I use onedrive heavily and AFAIK, there is no linux version.
2. Gaming - horrible experience. As others have posted, if you want to game, then Linux is NOT the platform for you. That might be changing, but right now in 2021, its the wrong tool for the job.
3. Work apps - While I got my VPN to work, I still failed to do what I needed too, though of all the issues I ran into, I believe this was probably the most solvable.
I'm still kicking around the idea of using Pop_os, since I pulled the NVMe drive out of my razer that had Pop, and put it an external USB-C enclosure. If it weren't for TPM 2.0, I could boot into it. The question I have will be what consequences do I face in disabling TPM 2.0 (in windows 11)
Well, some might argue that these are pluses for Linux. LOL
Seriously, though, Office can be a real issue. LibreOffice works for my "Word compatible" document needs--but I'm only doing simple documents. I can imagine a scenario where I might actually need Office--and at that point, being Linux-only won't be an option.
I'm, sure, but all of my files/data are stored on OneDrive, and while I can go to onedrive.com, its not as convenient as using office apps natively - especially since the online versions have less features.
Overall, I fired up Pop_os on the external drive and tried to play another game - one that had worked before and now it doesn't work. Nothing really changed, and I get through most of the menus and start up, only when I'm waiting to spawn into the world does it crash. That's the crazy thing, even Linus of LTT mentioned in his latest video of something not working on one day, and then the next day, it is working without him making any changes. For me, I'm the polar opposite - what did work, is no longer working.
This was my last attempt to use Linux on a PC. I am getting a SteamDeck and I'll see how Linux is when it arrives (sometime after Feb). I've read that I can install windows on that as well, so that is definitely on my list as well.
My little experiment with Linux was useful, and enlightening. Given the higher learning curve, I may have been premature but at this point I'm like - Do I want to keep trying to figure out why something isn't working (when it was before) or just use what works, i.e., Windows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yes exactly this! My thesis is that the Steak Deck will be a turning point for Linux. It will prove that expecting Linux to run random hardware is only for tinkerers and mechanics.
This turning point will unlock a new generation for desktop Linux where amateur customers get a better experience by paying for it (ie Pop OS used on System76 hardware, SteamOS used on Steam Deck). Installing Linux on random hardware will become like swapping the engine on a car. Sounds like a neat project for a mechanic but not for me! As a person who loves computers that "just work" and are open source, I'm excited for this upcoming era. In this era I believe Windows has more to lose than Apple.
We'll wait and see, but I highly doubt that a successful steam deck will translate into a significant uptick in Linux desktop marketshare.
My own personal experience with using steam/proton on pop_os was horrible. I'm of the opinion that there's no way playing a game through Wine will provide the same level of performance as playing that game natively. I'm really hoping that they'll have tightened things up, but when you look the gold rated games on protondb and yet reading the actual reviews, its clear that the game play is not on the same level as playing on windows:
Right now, six out of the top ten games are not gold rated. The numbers look a bit better at the top hundred, but still I do have concerns. Before I installed pop_os, I was under the impression steam had this compatibility stuff all swen up and was ready for prime time - December 2021 that's certainly not the case. They have a few more months to iron out the issues, and I hope they do.
Its funny, I read on reddit, and/or watch on YT, so many Linux evangelists stating how Linux runs on all hardware, yet we see so many posts on reddit and elsewhere on the inability to run a printer, wifi, old video cards, some wireless mice. One of the YTer's I follow correctly states that Linux can run lots of hardware but its unable to run everything (regardless of what others say). You cannot just install Linux on random hardware and expect it to just work. I'm having a helluva time just trying to get pop_os to work as seamlessly and effectively on my Razer Blade as windows and so far that's not been the case. I'm not talking about program compatibility, but actual laptop usage, whether we're talking sleep, fans, heat management, battery life, speakers, etc.
Even Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux says that Linux on the desktop sucks and he makes some very good points in this YT
Yes exactly. For some reason it's really hard for the general Linux community to accept and embrace this. It's likely that current Linux experts will be the last to get on board with consumer desktop Linux. They'll keep insisting that swapping out an engine is easy, you just need the right tools, why can't you do it, etc. Not for me!
Glad hardware+software companies like System76 exist, though they are a rare glimmer of light for consumers. As a consumer I can pay them like my local auto shop. I genuinely wonder if marketing Pop OS as "compatible with random hardware" is a good strategy long term for S76. Why not just say "it's basically only for System76 hardware" and be done with it. Now they're putting Pop on Raspberry Pi.....
Things have already happened in the computing industry that most didn’t expect. You have no idea if in the future Linux somehow becomes the most popular desktop OS.
My guess is that as desktop comotuing matures even more, innovations will become less important. And there will be less need to finance private companies to maintain a desktop OS that will keep up with the changes. At this point free software like Linux becomes a much more attractive option.
Very true.
In fact, one example I'll point out--in 1997, many would have doubted the possibility of Apple even existing in 2021--and I think anyone who'd have predicted that Apple would be hugely successful in 2021 would have been written off crazy!
Oh god, not this discussion again. CSAM is invasive. They have to look at your device's contents to determine if there's something to analyze. It's a massive security backdoor, and betrays Apple's every claim to respecting users' privacy.
The people saying "There's nothing wrong with CSAM" (etc. and so forth) are no different than Americans on the political right defending everything their side does, no matter how insane.
Now, will this post get me a warning or get me kicked off of MR? I'll leave it to Spock and Kirk to explain:
The people saying "There's nothing wrong with CSAM" (etc. and so forth) are no different than Americans on the political right defending everything their side does, no matter how insane.
Now, will this post get me a warning or get me kicked off of MR? I'll leave it to Spock and Kirk to explain:
You do realize that this thread was started at the height of CSAM
Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:
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So I bought a Lemur Pro from System76, switched to Linux, and am working on swapping my iPhone with a PinePhone.
This is really bad advice!!!
I love Linux and have been using it since the 90's.
However I would never in a million years tell people to get rid of their Apple devices and get Linux and a Pinephone instead!!!
From what you have posted it doesn't seem like you have used linux in a laptop for any extended period of time? Have you ever used a linux based phone?
From my experience any device you connect to the internet is not secure. Apple most likely will in time reverse course as NO ONE wants this feature and it adds serious security issues to the OS. Even if they don't reverse course I am sure there are work arounds much less drastic.
Windows is not so great at privacy or security, Chrome OS is great for security but not so much for Privacy, Linux is great for privacy and security but can still be hacked and compromised. MacOs and iOS are both very private and secure as operating systems go. If you truly wanted privacy and security and freedom you would go the BSD route, something like FreeBSD.
If I were going to use Linux as a daily driver then I would use Chrome OS. Chrome OS is based on Debian Linux. You can install linux support and use full linux applications like LibreOffice and Gimp etc. ChromeOS is extremely secure. ChromeOS automatically syncs and backs up your data. It has 8 years or update support for new models. You are basically using a paired down Linux maintained by Google who updates and adds new features. You can get a $700 machine like the Acer spin 713 and have amazing performance. Gorilla glass 2k screen and touch pad. All metal body, tiger lake processor, 256 Gb ssd, and 8gb ram.
The problem I have with what you are suggesting is that people who try this are not going to be happy in a couple of months. Hell you might not be happy inn a couple of months. Linux is great until it isn't and then what do you do? Maybe you have support from the OEM for the hardware but what about software. I mean specifically a package that you need but doesn't work with your device or is simply broken? You can't call anyone and those who work on the package most likely are volunteers who do it when they feel like it. What happens if a kernel update borks your system? What happens if a printer doesn't work and there are no Linux drivers and on and on.....
Pinephone....forget it. Did you check to see if the LTE bands are compatible with your carrier and have all the bands you need? Linux has not been on mobile officially in any significant or even less than significant way. You may have extremely limited app support. The device specs sure aren't like an iPhone....so the user experience might be a bit slow and buggy.
So lets say someone with a iPhone 12 and a MacBook Air decides to take your advice they will end up with devices with less than half the functionality and worse specs and build quality and a lot of headaches for an as yet threat??
Better advice would be to get a Windows laptop and an Android device but if you think your privacy is better off than with Apple I think you are wrong.
This is really bad advice!!!
I love Linux and have been using it since the 90's.
However I would never in a million years tell people to get rid of their Apple devices and get Linux and a Pinephone instead!!!
From what you have posted it doesn't seem like you have used linux in a laptop for any extended period of time? Have you ever used a linux based phone?
From my experience any device you connect to the internet is not secure. Apple most likely will in time reverse course as NO ONE wants this feature and it adds serious security issues to the OS. Even if they don't reverse course I am sure there are work arounds much less drastic.
Windows is not so great at privacy or security, Chrome OS is great for security but not so much for Privacy, Linux is great for privacy and security but can still be hacked and compromised. MacOs and iOS are both very private and secure as operating systems go. If you truly wanted privacy and security and freedom you would go the BSD route, something like FreeBSD.
If I were going to use Linux as a daily driver then I would use Chrome OS. Chrome OS is based on Debian Linux. You can install linux support and use full linux applications like LibreOffice and Gimp etc. ChromeOS is extremely secure. ChromeOS automatically syncs and backs up your data. It has 8 years or update support for new models. You are basically using a paired down Linux maintained by Google who updates and adds new features. You can get a $700 machine like the Acer spin 713 and have amazing performance. Gorilla glass 2k screen and touch pad. All metal body, tiger lake processor, 256 Gb ssd, and 8gb ram.
The problem I have with what you are suggesting is that people who try this are not going to be happy in a couple of months. Hell you might not be happy inn a couple of months. Linux is great until it isn't and then what do you do? Maybe you have support from the OEM for the hardware but what about software. I mean specifically a package that you need but doesn't work with your device or is simply broken? You can't call anyone and those who work on the package most likely are volunteers who do it when they feel like it. What happens if a kernel update borks your system? What happens if a printer doesn't work and there are no Linux drivers and on and on.....
Pinephone....forget it. Did you check to see if the LTE bands are compatible with your carrier and have all the bands you need? Linux has not been on mobile officially in any significant or even less than significant way. You may have extremely limited app support. The device specs sure aren't like an iPhone....so the user experience might be a bit slow and buggy.
So lets say someone with a iPhone 12 and a MacBook Air decides to take your advice they will end up with devices with less than half the functionality and worse specs and build quality and a lot of headaches for an as yet threat??
Better advice would be to get a Windows laptop and an Android device but if you think your privacy is better off than with Apple I think you are wrong.
I'm not disagreeing with your points, but I will ask, if the OP is choosing a system 76 because of apple's move regarding privacy, why would he (or anyone who's privacy minded) choose Chrome OS? Google's track record with privacy is pretty bad.
Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:
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Exactly.
At one point, I was intrigued by ChromeBooks as a secondary device. They seemed like a nice a choice for a laptop--small, portable, cheap (my favorite!), and "good enough" for many uses. But (short of some strongly, overwhelmingly compelling reason coming up), I can't see getting one now--not even as a secondary device.
There is the equivalent open source version of the OS (Chromium OS)--but if you are going to have to install an OS, you might as well install a full Linux distro.
True...but I've actually been surprised at how good some of the cheap ChromeBooks that I've seen are. Yes, toys compared to, say, a MacBook Air--but no worse than rock bottom Windows laptops (and sometimes better).
And as for the Internet connection...for a lot of modern people the only use for a computer is the Internet. So when the Internet goes, the computer suddnely becomes worthless.
I'm curious--how well does the Raspbery Pi work for web browsing?
I don't know Windows--but I do know that I see commentary about cheap laptops that have 4 GB of memory, and that gets pointed out as a performance limitation for Windows!
I repeatedly said that Chrome OS was secure not private. I did not suggest he choose Chrome OS in fact I said the opposite!
I was making the point that all commercial operating systems are NOT private and Apple is about as good as it gets in this area.
I was also not saying that system 76 or PopOS are bad. I like Linux but to give advice to the general public to abandon MacOS and iOS for Linux is naive at best. I used to give support for Linux installations for general users and it is not an easy or smooth transition from Windows and I would imagine the shock from MacOS and iOS would be even worse.
I don't think it was a good move by Apple but the proper action is not abandon the platform but to make your voice heard so Apple changes course and you can keep using Apple products but I think the OP simply wanted to promote something they actually do not have a lot of experience in.
Honestly do you think the average person could even figure how to use a Pine phone?? Most people don't even know how to install a SIM card.
The point is advice for the average user not how much ram an OS uses at idle. I never said Linux was bad or that it could not be used BUT the average user would run into problems they would not know how to resolve and the support really isn't there for them when they encounter a problem.
Not sure how to say this any other way -- did you read my entire first post in its entirety?