Carrier T-Mobile Lied - Free Data is $10

[dgdosen]

"T-Mobile clarified to CNET that new customers who want to take advantage of T-Mobile's no-money-down plan are required to sign up for a $20-a-month plan."

First off, I find this topic fascinating - from the miscommunication from t-mobile to the overblown emotions on threads like this... It's high drama and very entertaining...

Alas, this seems to me like it sounds like the practice t-mobile will try to follow, given the guy was quoted in cnet. If so, allow me to pontificate:

As an existing t-mobile customer, I'll probably take advantage of the the 200MB per month offer as I think it's a great idea. I'll also just buy my future iPad mini retina outright at Apple because of a company discount...

That said - I think t-mobile screwed up and has cost themselves much more in lost goodwill than they could have obtained. You should look at the offer as two different issues. Free 200 MB per month and free financing.

The 200 MB per month offer is good for any internet device a person "owns" and sticks a t-mobile sim in. One could argue that the incremental cost to t-mobile is negligible as they need no new equipment - assuming they're not running at capacity, and assuming they can handle any additional number of transactions that pour into their system. All around a good idea... Give the person who thought of this a raise.

Now for the 0% interest loan. Here's where I disagree with their strategy.

1) They mucked this up: Either you're in the financing game to get customers or you're not. Make up your mind. It doesn't matter if you provide some ongoing service to the customer. Apple or Best Buy would be happy to finance a transaction to a customer just to make a profit on the sale. So should you.

2) This is not 0% financing to new customers: If what I read in the cnet article is true - a customer needs to spend $20 a month for 500 MB + 200 MB to be eligible for 0% financing - This isn't 0% financing. Say, for example, that the 500 MB service is "worth" $10/month, then you're adding a $10/month vig. That juices the effective annual interest rate on a $629 purchase up to... get this - 33.13%!! That's pretty usurious - and you should get raked over the coals for this. This is an awful idea. Fire the idiot who thought of this.

3) The true cost of the 0% loan to t-mobile: If I'm conservative and assume that tmobile makes no money on the sale of an iPad - and they can borrow at an annual rate of ~7% - then the cost to them to make this offer is < $40 (on a $629 purchase). Again - this is very conservative. I'd imagine the actual cost to borrow by t-mobile to be half that - because their cost for an ipad and their borrowing costs are lower. Compare this to the value of a new customer to t-mobile. Is it greater than $40? I'd bet that t-mobile would gladly spend $100 on a new customer - even a customer that starts out on a pre-paid data plan. Compare that to the $240 in monthly charges over two years a customer will need to incur to buy a phone at 0%... Again - this is sooooo bad all around and reinforces the idea that you should fire the idiot who came up with it.

 

[deeddawg]

the full federal tax on the iPad ($59) had to be paid up front ~ that was the biggest drawback, but I think they had to do it that way because of not charging interest on the monthly payments

California wireless tax (including federal sale tax, california sale tax, and other) amounts to roughly 17%, therefore you will pay an extra 17 dollar if you have an $100 dollar monthly plan.

Completely irrelevant as those are taxes on services and Daria was paying tax on the device price.

if the whole T-moble ordeal is not a bait and switch then i really dont know what bait and switch means.

Agreed. You really don't know what "bait and switch" means.

Yes, TMO f'd up their communications and were unclear what they really meant. Suck it up and move on like a grown up.

 

[notmenwohere]

First off, I find this topic fascinating - from the miscommunication from t-mobile to the overblown emotions on threads like this... It's high drama and very entertaining...

Alas, this seems to me like it sounds like the practice t-mobile will try to follow, given the guy was quoted in cnet. If so, allow me to pontificate:

As an existing t-mobile customer, I'll probably take advantage of the the 200MB per month offer as I think it's a great idea. I'll also just buy my future iPad mini retina outright at Apple because of a company discount...

That said - I think t-mobile screwed up and has cost themselves much more in lost goodwill than they could have obtained. You should look at the offer as two different issues. Free 200 MB per month and free financing.

The 200 MB per month offer is good for any internet device a person "owns" and sticks a t-mobile sim in. One could argue that the incremental cost to t-mobile is negligible as they need no new equipment - assuming they're not running at capacity, and assuming they can handle any additional number of transactions that pour into their system. All around a good idea... Give the person who thought of this a raise.

Now for the 0% interest loan. Here's where I disagree with their strategy.

1) They mucked this up: Either you're in the financing game to get customers or you're not. Make up your mind. It doesn't matter if you provide some ongoing service to the customer. Apple or Best Buy would be happy to finance a transaction to a customer just to make a profit on the sale. So should you.

2) This is not 0% financing to new customers: If what I read in the cnet article is true - a customer needs to spend $20 a month for 500 MB + 200 MB to be eligible for 0% financing - This isn't 0% financing. Say, for example, that the 500 MB service is "worth" $10/month, then you're adding a $10/month vig. That juices the effective annual interest rate on a $629 purchase up to... get this - 33.13%!! That's pretty usurious - and you should get raked over the coals for this. This is an awful idea. Fire the idiot who thought of this.

3) The true cost of the 0% loan to t-mobile: If I'm conservative and assume that tmobile makes no money on the sale of an iPad - and they can borrow at an annual rate of ~7% - then the cost to them to make this offer is < $40 (on a $629 purchase). Again - this is very conservative. I'd imagine the actual cost to borrow by t-mobile to be half that - because their cost for an ipad and their borrowing costs are lower. Compare this to the value of a new customer to t-mobile. Is it greater than $40? I'd bet that t-mobile would gladly spend $100 on a new customer - even a customer that starts out on a pre-paid data plan. Compare that to the $240 in monthly charges over two years a customer will need to incur to buy a phone at 0%... Again - this is sooooo bad all around and reinforces the idea that you should fire the idiot who came up with it.

I have been saying this all along...the problem is "and" and "or"

the press release shoulda read," 200mb OR 0% finance"

Fire the person who wrote the press release also.

----------

Completely irrelevant as those are taxes on services and Daria was paying tax on the device price.



Agreed. You really don't know what "bait and switch" means.

Yes, TMO f'd up their communications and were unclear what they really meant. Suck it up and move on like a grown up.

I guess you like to be walked all over by people and like to accept whenever you are lied to. Good for you.

read the press release and CEO's tweets..."everyone get free 200mb, no exception, no string attach"

Looks like new financing customers are the exception.

 

[deeddawg]

accept whenever you are lied to.

Seems that you don't understand what "lying" means either.

"everyone get free 200mb, no exception, no string attach"
Looks like new financing customer is an exception.

Nope, financing customers get the extra 200MB free as well.

Where their communications were unclear, and you seem unable to let go of your misunderstanding, is that TMO isn't going to give you free financing without a monthly data plan.

 

[notmenwohere]

Seems that you don't understand what "lying" means either.




Nope, financing customers get the extra 200MB free as well.

Where their communications were unclear, and you seem unable to let go of your misunderstanding, is that TMO isn't going to give you free financing without a monthly data plan.

exactly which part of " no string attach " and " no exception" is not clear to you?

I dont know where John J Legere come from, but on earth FREE means "no cost and no payment".

Once a cost is applied then the term FREE no longer exist.

To get FREE 200mb u need to pay $20 to get 500mb. Free 200mb is not free anymore.

Its like saying i am going to give you my million dollar car for free, but you have to buy my billion dollar house first.

 

[deeddawg]

exactly which part of " no string attach " and " no exception" is not clear to you?

You're sounding very emotional. Why is this such a big deal for you?

Once a cost is applied then the term FREE no longer exist.
To get FREE 200mb u need to pay $20 to get 500mb. Free 200mb is not free anymore.

Incorrect. To get the zero interest financing you need to sign up for a postpaid data plan, the lowest priced one is $20/mo.

The 200MB free data offer is unrelated to that requirement.

Thus, no strings or exceptions attached to the free data allowance.

Why is this difficult to grasp?

 

[notmenwohere]

You're sounding very emotional. Why is this such a big deal for you?




Incorrect. To get EIP you need to sign up for a postpaid data plan, the lowest priced one is $20/mo.

The 200MB free data offer is unrelated.

Thus, no strings or exceptions attached to the free data allowance.

Why is this difficult to grasp?

I do understand that they were meant to be unrelated, the press release and CEO's twit sugguested otherwise.

I was emotional but not as much anymore. I dont like being lie to.

I didnt make the press release nor did i twit John's twit, which clearly states "everyone, no string attach, no exception", but it is clearly the case now that new financing customers are the exception.

lying by omission is still lying.

 

[deeddawg]

I do understand that they were meant to be unrelated, the press release and CEO's twit sugguested otherwise. [...] I dont like being lie to.

Lying requires intent to deceive. You haven't made a case for intentional deception. Was the initial communication unclear and easy to misunderstand? Sure. Were people disappointed upon finding out there was a catch to the no-interest financing? Sure. Yet were people lied to? I don't see it.

clearly states "everyone, no string attach, no exception", but it is clearly the case now that new financing customers are the exception.

Still true. Everyone gets the data with no strings and no exceptions.

The conditional is on getting the no-interest financing, not on the data.

lying by omission is still lying.

Back to intent. You haven't shown an intent to deceive.

 

[Dan--]

Anyone know if this free t-mob plan will work with an iPad 1 currently on AT&T? (This old ipad will be replace with a Air shortly, but would be nice to keep some data plan on it.

 

[notmenwohere]

Lying requires intent to deceive. You haven't made a case for intentional deception. Was the initial communication unclear and easy to misunderstand? Sure. Were people disappointed upon finding out there was a catch to the no-interest financing? Sure. Yet were people lied to? I don't see it.




Still true. Everyone gets the data with no strings and no exceptions.

The conditional is on getting the no-interest financing, not on the data.



Back to intent. You haven't shown an intent to deceive.

I would like to say that John and the press release intent to be vague to try to bring new customer, but I cant prove coporate intent, and it sure seems like that way.

If you followed their FAQ and their website closely, you would have found that the information changes constantly throughout the weekend.

 

[deeddawg]

If you followed their FAQ and their website closely, you would have found that the information changes constantly throughout the weekend.

If you discovered that people were misunderstanding your press release, you would not change your marketing materials in an attempt to clarify?

 

[notmenwohere]

If you discovered that people were misunderstanding your press release, you would not change your marketing materials in an attempt to clarify?

but it was clarified after the fact that some customers were promised a $10 credit and some weren't

 

[deeddawg]

but it was clarified after the fact that some customers were promised a $10 credit and some weren't

Yep. Exactly what happens during such an event; wires get crossed and different things get told to different people until senior management get things straightened out and get everyone on-message.

Look at AT&T's little fiasco this summer where they did a 50% off cellphones but accidentally let people order them at 50% off no-contract price. $325 Apple iPhone 5's. Ended up cancelling orders and getting Fedex to intercept shipments already out for delivery. Other people upgraded early for 1/2 off despite being only a couple months into contract. Not everyone ended up with the same result as customer services reps tried to respond over the weekend and some of the commitments made by CSRs were left in place.

 

[notmenwohere]

Yep. Exactly what happens during such an event; wires get crossed and different things get told to different people until senior management get things straightened out and get everyone on-message.

Look at AT&T's little fiasco this summer where they did a 50% off cellphones but accidentally let people order them at 50% off no-contract price. $325 Apple iPhone 5's. Ended up cancelling orders and getting Fedex to intercept shipments already out for delivery. Other people upgraded early for 1/2 off despite being only a couple months into contract. Not everyone ended up with the same result as customer services reps tried to respond over the weekend and some of the commitments made by CSRs were left in place.

I wasnt aware of the ATT fiasco, but i do believe ATT should honor the shipped units rather than intercept them. It is the corporates who should suck it up not the customer. just my 2cent

 

[notmenwohere]

Yep. Exactly what happens during such an event; wires get crossed and different things get told to different people until senior management get things straightened out and get everyone on-message.

Look at AT&T's little fiasco this summer where they did a 50% off cellphones but accidentally let people order them at 50% off no-contract price. $325 Apple iPhone 5's. Ended up cancelling orders and getting Fedex to intercept shipments already out for delivery. Other people upgraded early for 1/2 off despite being only a couple months into contract. Not everyone ended up with the same result as customer services reps tried to respond over the weekend and some of the commitments made by CSRs were left in place.

here is some math for ya,

The problem lies with CEO John Legere's comments. He stated everyone gets the 200mb free "No strings attached." That's the problem. There are plenty of strings attached to the deal. The EIP program for non T-Mobile subscribers is not interest free as the want you to believe. If you are forced to pay $20 a month for data just for the privilege of getting 0% financing then it is absolutely a bait and switch tactic, it's a play on words period. By financing on the EIP program that alone makes you a customer. They run your credit and establish an account which you agree to pay over a fixed amount of time. If they would have made it clear upfront by stating in order to get free data you must pay for the device in full, which they did not, then no one would be debating this issue. The $20 minimum fee for data is essence interest because they are forcing you to buy data for privilege of financing at 0%. The total amount you would have to pay for the so called free data ($20 for 500MB + 200MB free total 700MB) is $480 over 24 months. Once the device is paid off then the real free data would kick in and the $20 would be able to drop off. So in reality the $20 a month is a finance charge of 480.00 over 24 months. Do the math, $630 for a 16GB iPad air and $480 fee to get the free data, Total $1110 over two years. It equates to 76.2% interest charge over two years. THATS CRAZY. It would be better to charge the device on a credit card and add data as needed. I had a online chat with customer service yesterday and they are so confused that they actually told me the purpose of the fee is to prevent fraud. That doesn't make sense either as they wouldn't extend credit if you were a credit risk. T-Mobile needs to get their act together.....or at least be more transparent regarding this issue.

 

[protoxx]

here is some math for ya,

The problem lies with CEO John Legere's comments. He stated everyone gets the 200mb free "No strings attached." That's the problem.

Not problem there at all. Everyone does get 200mb free No strings attached.

There are plenty of strings attached to the deal. The EIP program for non T-Mobile subscribers is not interest free as the want you to believe. If you are forced to pay $20 a month for data just for the privilege of getting 0% financing then it is absolutely a bait and switch tactic, it's a play on words period. By financing on the EIP program that alone makes you a customer. They run your credit and establish an account which you agree to pay over a fixed amount of time. If they would have made it clear upfront by stating in order to get free data you must pay for the device in full, which they did not, then no one would be debating this issue. The $20 minimum fee for data is essence interest because they are forcing you to buy data for privilege of financing at 0%. The total amount you would have to pay for the so called free data ($20 for 500MB + 200MB free total 700MB) is $480 over 24 months. Once the device is paid off then the real free data would kick in and the $20 would be able to drop off. So in reality the $20 a month is a finance charge of 480.00 over 24 months. Do the math, $630 for a 16GB iPad air and $480 fee to get the free data, Total $1110 over two years. It equates to 76.2% interest charge over two years. THATS CRAZY. It would be better to charge the device on a credit card and add data as needed. I had a online chat with customer service yesterday and they are so confused that they actually told me the purpose of the fee is to prevent fraud. That doesn't make sense either as they wouldn't extend credit if you were a credit risk. T-Mobile needs to get their act together.....or at least be more transparent regarding this issue.

Having a delusion that they would finance you at zero interest while not being a customer is the problem. It's no different than the conditions that are on the same financing deal on phones and other tablets. Why anyone would expect it different is hard to understand.

 

[notmenwohere]

Not problem there at all. Everyone does get 200mb free No strings attached.



Having a delusion that they would finance you at zero interest while not being a customer is the problem. It's no different than the conditions that are on the same financing deal on phones and other tablets. Why anyone would expect it different is hard to understand.

sighhh, not everyone.

go to a dictionary and search what FREE means.

it means "with no cost or payment"

New customers who are financing, they need to pay $20 dollar a month<---- this is a cost, therefore FREE no long exist.

This is clearly contradicting John's " no string attached, no exception"

you get "FREE" 200mb except new financing customers who will need a minimum $20 data plan.

----------

by the way, read the macrumors front page, it explains clearly.

EXCEPTION!!!!!

 

[deeddawg]

Not problem there at all. Everyone does get 200mb free No strings attached.

Exactly.

The only strings show up when you want to finance the ipad through T-Mobile.

sighhh, not everyone.

Incorrect. Everyone with a T-Mobile ipad gets the 200MB free.

New customers who are financing, they need to pay $20 dollar a month<---- this is a cost, therefore FREE no long exist.

This is clearly contradicting John's " no string attached, no exception"

You're conflating two different things. No strings attached/no exception to the free data. The monthly cost requirement is tied to financing, not to the data.

I understand how the original communications might have been confusion, but to tenaciously hold onto this misunderstanding in the face of later clarifications is baffling.

you get "FREE" 200mb except new financing customers who will need a minimum $20 data plan.

Nope, they get the free 200MB as well.

 

[Daria]

Why do we need to pay 10$ for SIM card. Ipad already has one

I'm not sure, but it could be that the $10 is to have the sim card already installed? I didn't think to ask about why.

----------

I'm more curious what this "full federal tax" would be...

I imagine it's just state sales tax and a poster ignorant of the difference, but if someone knows different...

Oh yes, this Ignorant Poster made a mistake. Sosumi. Of course I meant state tax.

Nice ta meet cha, Deeddawg.

----------

this link seems to confirm that:

link

"T-Mobile clarified to CNET that new customers who want to take advantage of T-Mobile's no-money-down plan are required to sign up for a $20-a-month plan."


Daria,
you will probably get 200mb free on top of whatever plan they make you pay for. it seems the 200mb is free for everyone. but the interest free loan requires new customers to sign up with a plan

.
Time will tell. So far, according to what I've already paid and according to what's written on the receipts I have, I WILL be getting the deal. And I've seen other posts written here by new T-Mo customers who received the same deal as me.

This is such a massive confusion, I'm almost starting to feel sorry for T-Mo. But not quite.

.

 

[deeddawg]

Oh yes, this Ignorant Poster made a mistake.

If you're getting your skivvies in a wad, then you misunderstood the contextual use of the word. "poster ignorant of xyz" != "ignorant poster"

 

[mikew3]

sighhh, not everyone.

go to a dictionary and search what FREE means.

it means "with no cost or payment"

everyone knows what 'free' means. you're not special. you actually make yourself look dumb by trying to patronize people when you're the one who doesn't understand it

New customers who are financing, they need to pay $20 dollar a month<---- this is a cost, therefore FREE no long exist.

This is clearly contradicting John's " no string attached, no exception"

John never said that financing was free.

financing requires you to be a paying customer. then, whatever plan you sign up for, 500mb, 2.5gb, 4.5gb, you get 200mb free on top of that equalling 700mb, 2.7gb, 4.7gb, etc

so, there is no contradiction. everyone gets 200mb free.

as for 0% financing, thats a whole other story. if you want to qualify for financing, you are required to be a paying customer. this has nothing to do with the 200mb offer

thats all according to the most recent information. this is only bad news only for people who wanted to both finance interest free and also get 200mb with no plan. anyone can walk into an apple store, buy an ipad outright, and walk out with free 200mb data with no plan. obviously there was confusion with the initial announcements, and i was hoping to do financing without signing up for a plan as well. but whatever i'll just buy it then

 

[Daria]

If you're getting your skivvies in a wad, then you misunderstood the contextual use of the word. "poster ignorant of xyz" != "ignorant poster"

I'm not unhappy with you at all, deeddawg. I didn't misunderstand your context, rather I'm saying it's true that sometimes I'm an ignorant poster ~ it's OK, I can own it.

By the way, I've now read many more of your comments and find you to be intelligent and informative and God knows, that is needed right now on these threads.

 

[deeddawg]

I'm not unhappy with you at all, deeddawg. I didn't misunderstand your context, rather I'm saying it's true that sometimes I'm an ignorant poster ~ it's OK, I can own it.

Wow, very refreshing attitude. Yes, we all have our "blonde moments" myself included.

By the way, I've now read many more of your comments and find you to be intelligent and informative and God knows, that is needed right now on these threads.

Aw geez, now people are gonna talk. LOL. I do try to provide a little more signal than noise, but I also get frustrated at the lack of "critical thinking" shown by some threads.


Okay, back to topic... I just put a TMO prepaid SIM into my Verizon ipad3 and activated my free 200MB/mo data. I'd ordered the SIM on one of the $0.99 deals a few weeks ago, though I ordered a couple more in the recent freebie deal. Status bar shows 3G not LTE and SpeedTest gives about 12Mbps down and 1Mbps up.

Looks like I have 200MB per month for a one time cost of 99 cents.

 

[gotluck]

but it was clarified after the fact that some customers were promised a $10 credit and some weren't

Called in again today and was again promised a ten dollar credit for my on demand plan.

Ordered Saturday financed by phone new T-Mobile customer no voice line.
Monthly payment is slated to be $26.25 + $1.61. (1.61 is regulatory fee from the rebated $10 monthly data plan)

The only reason I have doubts is macrumors. Every time I call them they tell me the same thing. I even told the reps about the stories and threads here.

I believe the plan is considered postpaid to satisfy the requirement of a data plan for the EIP. So I've heard throttling occurs after 200mb rather than a cutoff as in their prepaid plans.

I explicitly said that i want to cancel if I will be due to pay > the additional $1.61 /more per month and they tell me not to worry.

 

[gigaguy]

Hate to add to the length of this thread but I have a question and observation.
I have a Tmo plan on my iPhone...

When I go Tmo online to order a free or $.99 Micro SIM for an older iPad, it makes you choose a data plan, shows the monthly plan cost ($20 or so) but doesn't charge you for the plan. Are there ramifications of choosing a plan, that I do not want just to get access to the free 200mb?? I wouldn't be against buying more data if I ever needed it but I don't want a paid monthly plan.

Also, I strongly feel, with all this attention to the free 200 data, TMo will soon stop or severely limit allowing unlimited access to it for anyone who can pop in a fresh Tmo SIM...