TB MBP - will you use your return window?

[HughMabin]

Are you going to make use of your return window?

While waiting for the release of the new MBPs, for the past 6 months I have relied on a Surface Book machine. Now that my TB MBP arrived I thought I was going to happily switch back to the cosy and familiar macOS environment.

And you know what? After a few days with the MBP / macOS, I do not feel anymore that it offers a superior experience compared to W10 on a full touch device. Both operating systems offer a similar level of comfort at the moment. But when you add to the equation the Surface Book with magnetic charging, usual ports, SD card reader, comfy keyboard on one side, and the compromised MBP design / connectivity on the other the outcome for me is clear - the MBP is going back to Apple next week...

I never thought I was going to feel this way.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I made a decision to return the MBP after one night of testing. I am not going to be part of this donglerama. My Eizo, my Wacom, my keyboard, my SD cards, my Logitech mouse, LaCie drives from work. It's not worth this mess of adapters.

I was particularly annoyed that the USB-C cable that ships with the MBP couldn't transfer at more than 40MB/s (no typo) with one of the only and best reviewed USB-C drives on the market - the Samsung T3. I'm not buying an extra USB-C cable to get around it. That's just corporate greed right there.

 

[Hyloba]

I don't like wobbly hinges and earphone cable floating 6 inches above my desk.
I may return the MBP, but I'm not getting a Surface of any sort at least, I've had plenty of issues with those.

 

[Trixs]

Are you going to make use of your return window?

While waiting for the release of the new MBPs, for the past 6 months I have relied on a Surface Book machine. Now that my TB MBP arrived I thought I was going to happily switch back to the cosy and familiar macOS environment.

And you know what? After a few days with the MBP / macOS, I do not feel anymore that it offers a superior experience compared to W10 on a full touch device. Both operating systems offer a similar level of comfort at the moment. But when you add to the equation the Surface Book with magnetic charging, usual ports, SD card reader, comfy keyboard on one side, and the compromised MBP design / connectivity on the other the outcome for me is clear - the MBP is going back to Apple next week...

I never thought I was going to feel this way.

Would definitely consider one of these if it was lighter and thinner. I'm one of those people who actually want the portability..

 

[skids929]

Would definitely consider one of these if it was lighter and thinner. I'm one of those people who actually want the portability..

I am not sure which size you are referring to, but I don't think it can get much more portable than the 2016 13 inch MBP. I feel like I am in iPad territory with this thing.

 

[HughMabin]

I don't like wobbly hinges and earphone cable floating 6 inches above my desk.
I may return the MBP, but I'm not getting a Surface of any sort at least, I've had plenty of issues with those.

Sure, Surface is not ideal but for me the best balance of pros and cons overall. Since Redstone, zero issues with stability as far as I'm concerned.

Agree on the earphone cable - this is still a puzzling design decision to me. But it's just one, as opposed to a multitude of puzzling design decisions on Apple's behalf in the recent years!

 

[maflynn]

I am not going to be part of this donglerama

But wouldn't that be a temporary situation as USB-C is being adopted?

How much more will you be carrying since you seem to be using a lot of peripherals anyways

 

[HughMabin]

I made a decision to return the MBP after one night of testing. I am not going to be part of this donglerama. My Eizo, my Wacom, my keyboard, my SD cards, my Logitech mouse, LaCie drives from work. It's not worth this mess of adapters.

I was particularly annoyed that the USB-C cable that ships with the MBP couldn't transfer at more than 40MB/s (no typo) with one of the only and best reviewed USB-C drives on the market - the Samsung T3. I'm not buying an extra USB-C cable to get around it. That's just corporate greed right there.

+1 on the USB-C cable!

The whole USB-C only / #donglelife drama can only be explained as a result of either: (a) Apple being the noble company pushing technology forward regardless of short-term dissatisfaction of their customers; or (b) Apple being the greedy company taking away something which would previously be included in the price of your laptop (connectivity) and selling it to you as an expensive upgrade.

As much as I'd prefer to believe in the (a) above, why the hell would they ship the MBPs with a ****** USB-C cable? That surely doesn't work as promotion of the new standard...

 

[Apple_Robert]

Unless I start having a problem with the Mac, I don't see myself returning it for the non touch bar version. Having the two extra ports made a big difference for me.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

But wouldn't that be a temporary situation as USB-C is being adopted?

How much more will you be carrying since you seem to be using a lot of peripherals anyways

I have owned almost every pro laptop Apple has made since 1999 and they always had transitional phases where they would introduce a new port but kept some old ones. The cable and accessory business has been very profitable to them in recent years and this has reflected in their choice to blatantly remove all legacy ports. The stock price has remained stagnant for the longest time they experienced in a decade. They wanted to bump prices and to boost add-on accessory sales. It really is a greed driven slap in our faces.

A USB-C cable in the box that can't transfer at even USB 1.0 speed?

 

[HughMabin]

But wouldn't that be a temporary situation as USB-C is being adopted?

But that's the whole point - the temporary solution should be on Apple's side to equip their laptops for the next 2-3 years with a combination of USB-C and USB-A. Any reasonable person, knowing USB-C is the future standard, would buy any new peripheral with a USB-C standard, while still being able to use the old USB-A ones for the next few years.

What Apple is forcing you to do is to either: (a) exchange all of your peripherals to USB-C compliant ones at once now - a very expensive proposal indeed; or (b) invest a lot of money in dongles, new cables and inter-connectors - expensive and pointless to spend that money on a "temporary" solution.

Aside from that - it's interesting to see how Apple convinces the world of its eco-friendliness while also pushing it's users to exchange a lot of their peripherals way ahead of their obsolescence (or buy "temporary" dongles) and, presumably, throw the old stuff in the bin.

 

[maflynn]

But that's the whole point - the temporary solution should be on Apple's side to equip their laptops for the next 2-3 years with a combination of USB-C and USB-A.

Yes, but Apple has a long track record of doing that. I remember the original iMac, forgoing SCSI, ADB ports in lieu of a new port called USB. Many people complained about that as well, but what it did, was help move the industry to embracing USB faster.

I don't think it will take 2 or 3 years for USB-C to catch on and the fact that you have to include a dongle only means one more cable in what will already be a crowded laptop bag full of peripherals. My point is that, that while this is a major issue for many people, is it really a major problem or just one folks have picked up on. People carry USB cables, mice, card readers, etc, so now they need to add a dongle to the mix. Seems like a minor inconvenience to me.

When I travel, I have a bunch of stuff in my laptop bag, so one more cable isn't going to kill me.

 

[chabig]

Any reasonable person, knowing USB-C is the future standard, would buy any new peripheral with a USB-C standard, while still being able to use the old USB-A ones for the next few years.

You'd think so, but that's not what happens. Witness the Windows world. Apple went all in with USB in 1998. PCs still shipped with serial, parallel, and PS/2 ports for years! The same happened with digital video out. I think some PCs still have VGA ports.

 

[maflynn]

I think some PCs still have VGA ports.

Yup, I just got a new PC at work, for a specific task and in the back of it, I had PS/2 ports for the mice and keyboard and VGA.

Apple is doing the right thing by going all in, on USB-C. There are other things with the new MBP that make it a poor choice for me, but having a dongle is not a major issue, at first I was thinking it would be, but as I reviewed how I travel and what I carry, I revised my opinion and its not a major problem imo

 

[seadragon]

How do we define "becoming the standard"? I mean, USB-C sounds great but I guarantee a new port will come along.

 

[maflynn]

The stock price has remained stagnant for the longest time they experienced in a decade

I really don't care about Apple's stock price and I doubt very much that was part of the design decisions, i.e., lets make people buy dongles and that will drive our stock prices up - seems kind of silly when I type it out.

Apple even has cut the cost of the dongles in 1/2 because of the people complaining, so that means it has an even smaller effect on the their stock price.

How do we define "becoming the standard"? I mean, USB-C sounds great but I guarantee a new port will come along.

Only if Intel puts it on the logic board and builds it into the chip set - just look at Thunderbolt, it has largely failed to be universally embraced even though Intel (and Apple) have pushed it. Only now that its sharing the same port as USB-C that it has any possible chance of succeeding. I'm sure in time a new port will come out, but in the mean time, I think USB-C will be here for a while

 

[seadragon]

Only if Intel puts it on the logic board and builds it into the chip set - just look at Thunderbolt, it has largely failed to be universally embraced even though Intel (and Apple) have pushed it. Only now that its sharing the same port as USB-C that it has any possible chance of succeeding. I'm sure in time a new port will come out, but in the mean time, I think USB-C will be here for a while

Yes, I hope you're right. It would be nice to actually have a standard port that everyone agrees on and truly is a standard. It just seems that things change so quickly and nothing ever really sticks.

 

[HughMabin]

You'd think so, but that's not what happens. Witness the Windows world. Apple went all in with USB in 1998. PCs still shipped with serial, parallel, and PS/2 ports for years! The same happened with digital video out. I think some PCs still have VGA ports.

Agree, but that did not stop the world spinning and, if anything, was more convenient for the end-user in the meantime. Ultimately USB caught on anyway, just in less of an abrupt way.

I mean, what, all of a sudden, is wrong with user choice, flexibility etc.?
[doublepost=1479993042][/doublepost]

Apple is doing the right thing by going all in, on USB-C. There are other things with the new MBP that make it a poor choice for me, but having a dongle is not a major issue, at first I was thinking it would be, but as I reviewed how I travel and what I carry, I revised my opinion and its not a major problem imo

Sure, these are first world problems. But I just don't see the value in forcing the upgrade all at once as higher than the value of user comfort / flexibility etc.

Donglelife is not only about inconvenience and carrying around more stuff - it's also about forcing you to spend money on equipment which is, by its very nature, of very limited and short term usability and which should become completely disposable in the next 2-3 years. At the benefit of not milling a couple of extra ports on a USD 3k notebook.

Plus, by the time USB-C is truly widespread there will most likely be USB-D so it's like chasing the rabbit.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Agree, but that did not stop the world spinning and, if anything, was more convenient for the end-user in the meantime. Ultimately USB caught on anyway, just in less of an abrupt way.

I mean, what, all of a sudden, is wrong with user choice, flexibility etc.?
[doublepost=1479993042][/doublepost]

Sure, these are first world problems. But I just don't see the value in forcing the upgrade all at once as higher than the value of user comfort / flexibility etc.

Donglelife is not only about inconvenience and carrying around more stuff - it's also about forcing you to spend money on equipment which is, by its very nature, of very limited and short term usability and which should become completely disposable in the next 2-3 years. At the benefit of not milling a couple of extra ports on a USD 3k notebook.

Plus, by the time USB-C is truly widespread there will most likely be USB-D so it's like chasing the rabbit.

When it comes to technology, we are always "chasing the rabbit." That will never change. The only difference is that some of us may have to spend more on peripherals, depending on where we caught the rabbit.

 

[HughMabin]

Yes, I hope you're right. It would be nice to actually have a standard port that everyone agrees on and truly is a standard. It just seems that things change so quickly and nothing ever really sticks.

I would ultimately love that too, but in fact USB-C itself is a total confusing mess at the moment. The USB-C as a designation of connector size / standard is getting mixed up with USB-C as the transmission standard, then some USB-C ports will have Thunderbolt 3, some of them won't (even on the same laptop - looking at you Apple), on top of that you get the various charging output / capabilities and the whole story with phoney USB-C cables killing your phone while charging.

That's hardly the "standard" ordinary users will embrace and understand. So I bet you, in a couple of years Intel or someone else will come with a new idea how to "finally harmonize things once and for all" and the whole and the whole dongle drama will start all over again.
[doublepost=1479993652][/doublepost]

When it comes to technology, we are always "chasing the rabbit." That will never change. The only difference is that some of us may have to spend more on peripherals, depending on where we caught the rabbit.

Absolutely - and that's a good thing! But exactly because of that there's no value in forcing everyone to adapt to a new "ultimate standard" all at once, because there will never be one.

I still believe offering some choice and flexibility is good for the customer - the good standards will come to prevail anyway (even if it takes a while longer).

Shifting the entire cost of Apple's belief that USB-C is "the thing" to the customer is good for them, but not for me. I'm inclined to choose what's good for me.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I would ultimately love that too, but in fact USB-C itself is a total confusing mess at the moment. The USB-C as a designation of connector size / standard is getting mixed up with USB-C as the transmission standard, then some USB-C ports will have Thunderbolt 3, some of them won't (even on the same laptop - looking at you Apple), on top of that you get the various charging output / capabilities and the whole story with phoney USB-C cables killing your phone while charging.

That's hardly the "standard" ordinary users will embrace and understand. So I bet you, in a couple of years Intel or someone else will come with a new idea how to "finally harmonize things once and for all" and the whole and the whole dongle drama will start all over again.
[doublepost=1479993652][/doublepost]

Absolutely - and that's a good thing! But exactly because of that there's no value in forcing everyone to adapt to a new "ultimate standard" all at once, because there will never be one.

I still believe offering some choice and flexibility is good for the customer - the good standards will come to prevail anyway (even if it takes a while longer).

Shifting the entire cost of Apple's belief that USB-C is "the thing" to the customer is good for them, but not for me. I'm inclined to choose what's good for me.

I agree with Mike. I like that Apple went 'all in' with the USB-C port, even though it has cost me extra with the new Mac. With Apple leading the way and pushing the consumer envelope, it will help push design from other manufacturers.

Some of us will be left with cables, dongles, and hubs, when Apple refines design even more with all of their products, not to mention when other companies adopt use. It happens all the time. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth on MacxRumors as there always is.

 

[Aurora Wright]

Plus, by the time USB-C is truly widespread there will most likely be USB-D so it's like chasing the rabbit.

USB-C is relatively recent (I think the first devices came out in 2015?) while USB-A has been widespread since USB1.1 (before the 2000s). Sure, there were still devices using other ports, but by then it was widespread.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I really don't care about Apple's stock price and I doubt very much that was part of the design decisions, i.e., lets make people buy dongles and that will drive our stock prices up - seems kind of silly when I type it out.

Welcome to the world of retail. I can give you my almost five decades worth of experience, even if you think it sounds silly when it gets typed out.

 

[maflynn]

Welcome to the world of retail. I can give you my almost five decades worth of experience, even if you think it sounds silly when it gets typed out.

I've worked in retail for many years and fully understand the idea of marking up peripherals, yet it does sound silly when you're talking about a multibillion dollar company deciding to embrace USB-C so they can sell a 40 dollar dongle.

 

[HughMabin]

Welcome to the world of retail. I can give you my almost five decades worth of experience, even if you think it sounds silly when it gets typed out.

Indeed. I mean doesn't it seem silly to type out that "Apple makes it just for the greater good of us consumers and the long term benefit and progress of humanity"?

It's either Apple's hubris / misperceived sense of beauty (which would be, in fact, just form over function) or a sneaky way to sell you proper connectivity as an upgrade.

Unfortunately, it's happening in other places too - in the past you'd pay 49 bucks for a racing game with a 100 cars in it. Now, you pay 49 bucks for 49 cars, the other 51 available as paid DLC. Bottom line rules the game...