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Teen Girl Falls In Open Manhole While Texting

Jetaray said:
Who decided what the temperature of normal coffee will be? The fact 700 people out of possibly millions of customers made a mistake that caused them to get burned by coffee they bought means nothing. McDonalds did know that serving coffee at that temperature is what the majority of their customers want, simply because it tasted better. The same thing is done by many other businesses that sell brewed coffee, because they want to sell their product and have customers return. Instead of making people responsible for their silly actions we make rules and laws so people can blame others for their casual mistakes. An adult who is knowledgeable enough to drive a car would by most people be considered smart enough NOT to put hot items encased in a flexible container on a slanted seat between their legs. I seriously doubt if the women knew the coffee was 195 – 200 degrees Fahrenheit she would have acted any differently. Her actions are proof of her lackadaisical habits.
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while more than likely true it was still McDonald job to inform her that it was a lot hotter than a standard cup of coffee.

As for a standard I figure the measurement of the temperature that comes out of your drip pot at home is the one that most people expect coffee to be at.
 
She was using a hardware sidewalk and not a touch sidewalk and this still happened?

She got the tactile feedback of no ground under her foot and she kept walking, seems like a mis-use of the sidewalk to me.
 
Tarzanman said:
Maybe the city told her that she was walking on the sidewalk wrong. The manhole being open wasn't any kind of error... its just that the street was designed for her to be walking on the other side of the street.

LOL
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This joke wasn't funny the first few thousand times. It's sad after a millionth time.:(

Whether or not cones were placed around the hole, I have a feeling she was going for the dive anyway. I'm surprise all the poo didn't provide enough of a cushion for the fall.
 
Jetaray said:
Who decided what the temperature of normal coffee will be?
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Well, you know, there are plenty of stupid sue cases out there (like the thief who got attacked by a dog and won. PErsonally I say he was trespassing so why does he get to whine about the dangers of being some where he was not welcome in the first place?!).

But I will say when I hear the details of the McD's case, I side with the woman. For many reasons.

1. You ask what is normal temperature of coffee? Well, she got *3rd degree* burns from that coffee. From wikipedia: "3rd degree burns occur when the epidermis is lost with damage to the subcutaneous tissue. Burn victims will exhibit charring and extreme damage of the epidermis, and sometimes hard eschar will be present. Third-degree burns result in scarring and victims will also exhibit the loss of hair shafts and keratin. These burns may require grafting. These burns are not painful, as all the nerves have been damaged by the burn and are not sending pain signals; however, all third-degree burns are surrounded by first and second-degree burns." I'd say that is hotter than normal.

2. She wasn't asking for a multi millionaire settlement, she had just wanted her medical bills covered. McD's flat out refused.

3. The fact they had continuous problems with this coupled with the fact they were keeping their coffee hotter than other places.

As for case we are discussing, I do agree that if she's trying to get more money than she was actually damaged I'd say she doesn't deserve that. Only her real medical bills.

Unfortunately, people are a**holes and will take advantage. I was at a slalom when a guy got rear ended and pushed into a Lotus in front of him. Lotus broke in half, engine fell out (apparently very common for the frame to do that), guy had a little dent in his bumper (I think the Lotus cushioned the crash for his car. He came jumping out hopping mad, yelling about, "Not again!" and then promptly went back into his car and complained of neck pain (yeah... maybe from you jumping around guy) and insisted on an ambulance (the guy in the Lotus on the other hand was fine).
 
Its probably the cities fault legally because of the no cone.... but really what was the girl doing? When I am texting I am looking down... I would know if a big stinking black hole was in front of me... I know I would have just walked home thrown away everything I was wearing take a shower and not say anything to anyone that I just fell into the cities sewers because I would feel like the biggest idiot for missing something so obvious.
 
samcraig said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hk-ru57A-c&feature=related

Now I'm not suggesting the city is not responsible. But does anyone else think that perhaps the teen should take SOME responsibility as well for not paying attention?
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I think this shows the relevance of just how flipping stupid and disconnected the younger generation is from day to day life! I do not wish ill will on anyone or anything but....all I can say is good for her, she got what she deserved for being out of touch with "basic" Reality. I bet she wont allow this to happen a second time:D and if she does well...once again ...Good For Her!@ being Stoopid:p
 
tigress666 said:
You ask what is normal temperature of coffee? Well, she got *3rd degree* burns from that coffee. From wikipedia: "3rd degree burns occur when the epidermis is lost with damage to the subcutaneous tissue. Burn victims will exhibit charring and extreme damage of the epidermis, and sometimes hard eschar will be present. Third-degree burns result in scarring and victims will also exhibit the loss of hair shafts and keratin. These burns may require grafting. These burns are not painful, as all the nerves have been damaged by the burn and are not sending pain signals; however, all third-degree burns are surrounded by first and second-degree burns." I'd say that is hotter than normal.
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Just because a fresh brew of coffee can cause severe burns does not mean its hotter then normal. It only means good tasting coffee is made at high temperatures. Just about everything I read about brewing coffee claims the majority of people prefer coffee brewed at scalding hot temperatures, because coffee is most successfully extracted from the beans with water slightly under the boiling point. A third degree burn from water can happen in ½ second at 160 degrees Fahrenheit. Ask your local coffee shop if they brew and serve a lot of coffee at that temperature.

Look at it like this; I buy a freshly baked pizza that was baked at 350 to 400 degrees Fahrenheit. If I am wearing shorts and happen to drop a piece on my leg shortly after it was pulled from the oven, it results in serious burns. Who is at fault? The pizza man because he gave it to me before it cooled down or me for dropping the pizza. The pizza is made at that temperature to provide a quality customers like, just like coffee is brewed at high temperatures and given to customers hot because that preserves the taste most enjoy.

I think in reality most people already know good coffee must be handled with care as it is brewed and served at high temperatures. This woman made a mistake and was not willing to admit it. McDonalds only fault was trying to make a brew of coffee that the majority of their customers liked. I suspect the only reason McDonalds lost the case is because in previous instances they took pity on their stupid customers and did things to lesson the pain those customers endured (knowing they had no responsibility to do so because it was the customer’s mistake). Even in this forum you read about how people have dropped and broken their new iPhone yet are able to get free replacements even though Apple had no obligation to do so, most likely done because some Apple representative valued that customer. It would not surprise me at all that a devious lawyer could twist those acts of compassion from McDonalds or Apple that those actions are an admission that their product is at fault even though the customer created the problem.
 
Ktdhc said:
Why is this posted in iPhone section again?

https://forums.macrumors.com/forums/20/ --->
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Why do you care. Does this thread and conversation annoy you? If so - click over to a new thread.


As for Jetaray's comments. I agree mostly. Can I sue the pizza parlors every time I stupidly (and admit-tingly) burn my tongue or the roof of my mouth because I eat their pizza too quickly? There's no warning on the paper plate they give me that the pizza is too hot.

But McDonalds, etc aside. I'm not putting the blame on the girl as much as I was putt off by her reaction as if she had no responsibility whatsoever. All in good form for having a lawsuit and no doubt before the news story was taped, she was coached on what to say and what not to say. If not - and she really is in complete denial that she MAY have been a contributing factor is just sad.
 
Gav2k said:
To quote her 'i would have seen a bright color'd cone' well I'm sorry love but you didn't see a 2foot wide hole WTF makes you think you'd have seen a little cone??
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2 foot wide hole is exactly the same dark colour as a 2 foot wide manhole cover. Especially as she lives in the area, it wouldn't stand out, it's just a brown circle bordered by cement, it's always there. But an orange cone on a sidewalk would stand out and as someone said, the orange cone would be visible when one looks straight ahead, not just down.

Walking into a street, you should expect cars and bicycles, etc. Walking on a sidewalk, you expect an unmarked hole?

I agree the girl and her family don't attract a lot of sympathy with the MRI and lawsuit angle. Had this been a regular jogger who fell in, who didn't exaggerate his/her injury and didn't want to sue the city, more people would blame the city.
 
samcraig said:
Why do you care. Does this thread and conversation annoy you? If so - click over to a new thread.


As for Jetaray's comments. I agree mostly. Can I sue the pizza parlors every time I stupidly (and admit-tingly) burn my tongue or the roof of my mouth because I eat their pizza too quickly? There's no warning on the paper plate they give me that the pizza is too hot.
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Burning your mouth on food that is too hot enough to just say ouch (and that'll heal) is not the same as burning through skin (which is tougher than your mouth) enough to have to go to the hospital and get skin grafts!

I think the point was that McD's *served* (not cooked, but served it) the coffee hotter than most places serve the coffee, had been sued for the *same thing* before, and had settled with those people to pay for their medical bills (so if anything, one can at least say McD's was stupid for settling before cause they had set the precedent for that case when they decided to refuse to pay for the medical bills).

Anyways, the point of the case was that they served the coffee hotter than most places and the reasoning behind her winning was that they should have waited til the coffee wasn't so dangerously hot to serve it. Especially if they are sending it through drive through where some one if they spill is not going to be able to quickly get up and shake off the hot liquid before it really starts to burn. Cause spills do happen.

Now whether you think places should be able to serve food hot enough to give you third degree burns, that is an arguement that really applies to this. But not that all food is hot. I mean I've never had to deal with food so hot it would give me that kind of burns.
 
-aggie- said:
...Stuff like this should be used to clean up the gene pool.
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I'm inclined to agree. I see entirely too many people walking around with their cell phones so wrapped up in their calls/texts/web browsing/whatever that they're completely oblivious to the world around them. I can't tell you how many times I've had to dodge people while walking who had their faces buried in their phones....or had to slam on my brakes to avoid pedestrians walking out of stores and right out into parking lots while yapping away, completely unaware of the fact that they would have just been wiped out if I hadn't anticipated their stupidity. How about the ones chatting away while standing in the middle of the aisles in grocery stores, completely blocking anybody/everybody else from getting through?

Not saying that the open manhole shouldn't have been marked somehow - but I can't imagine being so HUA as to miss an open manhole in the middle of the sidewalk in front of you. No doubt that both she and some lawyer will become millionaires over it, though.
 
They'll sue, the city will settle, and the girl and her mother will be $750,000 richer for their "pain and suffering".:rolleyes:
 
the girl doesn't see how she was in the wrong in the least lol... I loved the reporters line "the medical bills are mounting"..... she had a couple of bruises no sign of major time in A&E so how can the medical bills be mounting if shes not in an out of the hospital? lol
 
Vert1go said:
They'll sue, the city will settle, and the girl and her mother will be $750,000 richer for their "pain and suffering".:rolleyes:
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Which is how it should be. There was a human error on the council's part and that could have resulted in something more serious. Leaving an exposed manhole was a serious misconduct, while many people text while walking and they shouldn't expect a big hole below them. Cases like this make organisations think twice about their policies, procedures and their attitude towards health and safety.

But I went to a Law School, so I might be biased...
 
Let's get a class action against Darwin going.....cause he can't keep up with his workload......
 
<Beavis and Butthead Laugh> huh huh ha ha "Manhole." I bet it's dark in there! ;)
 
kernkraft said:
Which is how it should be. There was a human error on the council's part and that could have resulted in something more serious. Leaving an exposed manhole was a serious misconduct, while many people text while walking and they shouldn't expect a big hole below them. Cases like this make organisations think twice about their policies, procedures and their attitude towards health and safety.

But I went to a Law School, so I might be biased...
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I totally see your point from a law side of thing but come on in reality they should have had the cones there first but it wasn't like they left for lunch or anything they just opened the cover then went to get the cone... 15ft away not even out of sight of the hole. Hope some form of justice comes down in the lines of city pays for the medical bills and a pair of shoes and issues an apology letter. If they make any profit over something like this it would be by a common sense stand point to just be stupid. Yes from law school you know that just because its common sense doesn't mean it has anything to do with the legal system though.
 
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