The "13-inch MBP vs. rev.C MBA" Dilemma

[Veinticinco]

I've taken a pro-MBA stance on another thread...

Well that does help thanks....I can feel a little bit of MBA push back.

I guess I'm just taken aback by the raft and extent of the MB(P) upgrades above and beyond the MBA's speed bump - display, battery tech, FW port, storage, RAM expansion etc.

I think I'll be taking some time out to consider things carefully. My head says the MBP is much better bang for buck, but then I'm not sure I coud 'go back' to the heft and aesthetics of the MB after experiencing the gorgeous and svelte MBA.

Damn you Apple.......

 

[GeekGirl*]

I love my revA ssd refurb, but i bought the new macbook pro, i threw the air on line on ebay and got 999.00 what I paid for it whiten a hour. I hate the bezel but will get use to it and also got the free ipod touch, it will be here Friday!

 

[dehory]

I guess I'm just taken aback by the raft and extent of the MB(P) upgrades above and beyond the MBA's speed bump - display, battery tech, FW port, storage, RAM expansion etc.

I think I'll be taking some time out to consider things carefully. My head says the MBP is much better bang for buck, but then I'm not sure I coud 'go back' to the heft and aesthetics of the MB after experiencing the gorgeous and svelte MBA.

For me, the biggest draw of the new MB(P) -- and the weakest point of the MBA -- is the battery, but this is really offset by its inferior portability compared to the MBA.

As for the extra RAM, I'm a relatively recent refugee from the Windows world who's always been in the school of you-can't-ever-have-enough-RAM, but I've been finding that 2GB really does the trick.

In fact, I'm of the opinion that the SSD option provides a bigger everyday performance boost than adding an extra 2GB of RAM: I'd definitely take 2GB/SSD over 4GB/HD.

For me, the 4GB RAM goes in the nice-to-have feature category, along with the display (gray lines issue aside, you have to remember that the MBA's is already very good), the FW port, the SD slot, and higher storage option.

Since (again, for me) portability is a must-have feature, I think the MBA is still the most attractive MacBook line.

I will say that at least some of these 13" MBP upgrades must make it to the Rev. D MBA, or the MBA will be looking increasingly limited to most people -- and I think Apple recognized this fact with the dramatic price slashing.

EDIT: Just realized that I've echoed a lot of Scottsdale's thoughts here.

 

[alice?]

BRAVO dehory! BRAVO! Great post.

 

[Rhosfelt]

So I was an avid fan of the MBA before WWDC, now MBP it is.

Why? Because the MBA is not changing with the good times at apple. It is missing the new black bezeling and the new trackpad. Now you cannot mix and match processor speed and HDD options, you're stuck with 1.86GHz and 120HDD or 2.13GHz and 128SSD. That is all they wrote for the MBA.

The MBP on the other hand is only 50% heavier but 200% more powerful. If you had a plastic MB it is a half a pound lighter which will feel good because it is more solid. So for the price of a 1.86GHZ MBA you can just get 2.53GHZ MBP sure it is a little heavier but it is by NO MEANS a huge machine. it is lighter than the old Macbooks, it is more appealing, and it is more powerful... a lot more powerful.

So in about an hour I went from MBA fan to MBP faithful.

 

[Veinticinco]

I will say that at least some of these 13" MBP upgrades must make it to the Rev. D MBA, or the MBA will be looking increasingly limited to most people -- and I think Apple recognized this fact with the dramatic price slashing.

Few thoughts...

I'd only ever buy a SSD now having experienced use of one, so the HDD argument doesn't really apply for me. MB(P) or MBA, either way it would be an SSD.

Don't agree about the 2GB RAM. The extra RAM and ability to expand is more about highly intensive apps and future-proofing than anything else, and I'm afraid 2GB doesn't quite cut it moving towards 2010. The MB(P) can support EIGHT GBs, that's a 300% increase, even if I wouldn't utilise or pony up for the chips right now.

The big practical kick in the backside for me is the battery life - it's frustrating that the super-portable MBA has a battery that is now significantly inferior (again around 50%) to the merely-portable MB(P). That one really hurts.

As for the rev.D, well I now think there won't be one - I can see the 'Air' brand being dropped next year and the 13" MBP having the same or improved tech (e.g. Arrandale CPU, 256GB SSD) except just in an svelte 'MBA' form factor.

 

[jrichie]

You could be very right there, and I also have the feeling this will be the last air.

2GB is the killer for me, and it seems all the other 'extras' have been missed out.

We will see I suppose, but I was all ready to get the air if it had 4gb. Now I am not so sure.

 

[kokesh]

Few thoughts...

I'd only ever buy a SSD now having experienced use of one, so the HDD argument doesn't really apply for me. MB(P) or MBA, either way it would be an SSD.

Don't agree about the 2GB RAM. The extra RAM and ability to expand is more about highly intensive apps and future-proofing than anything else, and I'm afraid 2GB doesn't quite cut it moving towards 2010. The MB(P) can support EIGHT GBs, that's a 300% increase, even if I wouldn't utilise or pony up for the chips right now.

The big practical kick in the backside for me is the battery life - it's frustrating that the super-portable MBA has a battery that is now significantly inferior (again around 50%) to the merely-portable MB(P). That one really hurts.

As for the rev.D, well I now think there won't be one - I can see the 'Air' brand being dropped next year and the 13" MBP having the same or improved tech (e.g. Arrandale CPU, 256GB SSD) except just in an svelte 'MBA' form factor.

Wow, looks like you're having the same exact thought process as me on this dilemma. I'm concerned about the battery life in the MBA, too. 7 hours (or even 4.5 to 5) could come in handy compared to just 3.

What does everyone else think about the 2GB RAM? I imagine in Snow Leopard the RAM usage will be more efficient by the OS? And what about the 6MB cache in the MBA vs. 3MB cache in MBP? Is that a major advantage for MBA?

Also, someone mentioned in this thread or maybe another , can't remember, that the SSD is upgradeable in the MBA. I could buy one with a 128GB SSD now and then purchase a 256GB SSD later on down the road? That probably wouldn't be very cost-effective, though, huh. hahah.

 

[bugout]

I just might be joining that 13" mbp ship because of the ram. :-(

 

[lixuelai]

Having the same dilemma. Want a more portable machine to complement my 15" MBP. The 13" MBP is nice but it is only 1lbs lighter. The MBA is a couple hundred more. Cant decided :S

 

[kinkster]

I don't think Apple will discontinue the MBA just because it isn't currently the center of attention. The MBP isn't suddenly going to get super thin and light, and the demand for an apple ultraportable isn't going to diminish either.

 

[lixuelai]

I wish the MBA is 12" that would set more difference between the MBA and the 13" uMB and MBP.

 

[macinsomniac]

Does the SD card slot on the new MBP's turn anyone else off? SD is generally a consumer camera format. I don't understand the logic behind swapping the Express Card slot (expandable option) for a single format. A possible reason could be that more space was needed for the new battery, but I would prefer it just be subtracted over having an SD slot.

This is part of the reason that I am attracted to the Air. Nothing is there that I don't need. I don't need an optical drive on my computer at all times, and certainly not an SD card slot.

Just a thought...

 

[redcrow240]

not to keep mentioning it but at the apple website it says the macbook air has a 5 hour battery life. Is this the same as before? I thought it used to be a 35 or 37 watt hour battery, now it says its 40. Can anybody clear this issue for me?

 

[steve31]

I just sold my MB 2.4 with intel SSD and ordered a 2.13 MBA SSD. I had a rev.A MBA with 60gb SSD and sold it to buy the uni MB. I have really missed my air and now am going back. I also have a uni MBP so this is my second notebook which is perfect.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Yea but still only 2GB of ram :-(

Saw that too... given the 2 to 4 gigs on the new 13" MBP - 2 gigs on Snow Leopard may be limiting....

 

[Veinticinco]

Does the SD card slot on the new MBP's turn anyone else off? SD is generally a consumer camera format. I don't understand the logic behind swapping the Express Card slot (expandable option) for a single format. A possible reason could be that more space was needed for the new battery, but I would prefer it just be subtracted over having an SD slot.

This is part of the reason that I am attracted to the Air. Nothing is there that I don't need. I don't need an optical drive on my computer at all times, and certainly not an SD card slot.

Just a thought...

Whilst it - an SD card slot - doesn't turn me on, it also doesn't turn me off, why would it? It's just a convenience thing.

Fact 1: the majority of users import pics into iPhoto from their digital cameras.

Fact 2: the majority of digital cameras, both P&S and DSLR, utilise SD cards.

Fact 3: It is easier to pop the hatch and plug the card directly into your laptop than fiddle about looking for or carrying the extra cable or a sluggish USB card reader. Not to mention hoping that you still have enough charge on board your camera to complete the import - especially dicey if you have a serious amount of RAW files to transfer.

As for Snow Leopard, there's no doubt it will be less RAM-intensive than Leopard - billed as a leaner meaner greener OS. But that's not to say 2GB is "enough" if you're going to be running highly-intensive apps now and in the near future. It's not so much that the MBA only comes with 2GB - so does the entry level 13" MBP - but the fact that you have no ability to expand that, is a kick in the pants. What would it have taken for them to solder on a 4GB chip? I'd hope there was some sort of rational technical/electrical engineering reason for not doing so, but honestly I can't see how. It's an indefensible position to take, almost certainly a decision to keep costs down with this rev.C MBA which is at best a stopgap, at worst an EOL revision.

 

[Scottsdale]

This is part of the reason that I am attracted to the Air. Nothing is there that I don't need. I don't need an optical drive on my computer at all times, and certainly not an SD card slot.

Just a thought...

I totally agree. I hate it when people say they want another USB, FireWire, and an Ethernet port on the next MBA... SAY WHAT???

I love how simple the design is on the MBA. I love that I only have to look at a port when I need one. I love that there is no unused port there. I love the MBA.

I wish it had more RAM. I would love the glass trackpad. I want a longer life battery. I need more drive space. But my rev B MBA was stolen, and saving $700 right now is a great deal! In this market, at this time, I can live with this rev 2,1 MBA.

I don't know if we call this a rev C??? I don't think so???

My head is all over the place on what happened to Apple and the MBA today... A $700 price cut? WTF? I mean Apple NEVER equates to lowering prices! Even the 13" MBP... a far superior display, an amazing battery, FireWire, SD, and it's $100 LESS??? WTF? A low end 15" MBP that is $1699 and supports 8 GB RAM? HUH?

The LOW END MBPs got an amazing value proposition for them in 13" and 15" models! Even the 17-inch got a nicer CPU and a $300 price cut! Yesterday, it required $2499 to get a 15" MBP with 3-hour battery, 2.66 CPU, and max 4 GB RAM. Today, $1999 gets a 15" MBP with 7-hour battery, 2.66 CPU, and max 8 GB RAM???

This is a great day for consumers of Apple products. It's NOT a great day for the PRO that uses Mac notebooks. For the real pros, they use the Mac Pros, but still the 15" MBP is a really amazing Mac for a pro, but even that lost the Express Card slot for an SD slot. That is actually a BIG DOWNGRADE. Take an express card slot that was expandable for video card, audio components, and multiple other options (like my 3G Wireless card), and it is NO LONGER THERE! I guess Apple thinks that a real Pro uses a Mac Pro or 17" MBP with an anti-glare display???

But the consumers or non graphics type pros won big time today.

I am a business PRO. I got a better MBA for $700 LESS. It still doesn't seem real??? It just doesn't!

In six months, I will be ready for a better MBA... hopefully then a high-end MBA is added to the current MBA lineup. That MBA is the one we were all hopeful for today. But we all were wondering about the 256 GB SSD. We all wondered if it could be done right now. Apparently Apple didn't want to see or it couldn't. Maybe Apple just wants to see where the MBA can compete??? Maybe the BTO order options come. Maybe the updates are coming they just need time for the tech.

Maybe maybe maybe.

I tried calling the four Apple stores in the area today... NO MBAs today. So, I decided to wait for a day and hope that someone here reports the MBA with NO LINES tomorrow or wednesday. I want to learn more about the display before I order it. If they all have lines, I am going to be disappointed. However, I have to believe that Apple corrected it at the end, and that is what we started seeing in the rev B MBAs that were released in the last month or so.

 

[WoodNUFC]

Since (again, for me) portability is a must-have feature, I think the MBA is still the most attractive MacBook line.
here.

I completely agree. For me I am willing to "sacrifice" for the portability. I came from a 15"Powerbook G4, so for me, the air is actually a lot faster, and a whole heck of a lot more portable.

I think the MBA update is quite nice. But since i just bought my MBA six weeks ago, I won't be upgrading.

 

[qubex]

Scottsdale, you know I'm a big fan of the MacBookAir's elegant no-frills form-factor, but I'm going to weigh in on this thread too.

After the update occasioned upon the MacBookPro 13", there is simply no comparison. That machine outranks the significantly more expensive Air by a wide margin. I've always argued that the compactness and elegance of the Air are worth a hefty premium, but by letting the Air fall behind Apple has really tipped the balance in disfavour of the Air.

The new MBP 13" is a formidable machine at a very attractive price. I'm not at all excited by it's wide spectrum of (useless for me) ports, and it annoys me to drag around the extra bulk of an optical drive I will never use. On the other hand, it offers a comparable screen, a backlit keyboard, expandable RAM and a 256GB SSD.

2GB of non-expendable RAM... are you kidding me?! 2GB might seem "tight, but acceptable" now, but it'll be tight in the next few months, especially when you get applications that use the GrandCentral API to run operations on the GPU and need to use oodles of RAM as a thoroughfare.

No mention of repaired screens?! No glass trackpad, we're stuck with a vestigial single-button trackpad? Oh, come on! It's pathetic. It's the same damned machine with a new price-tag... a discount for a machine that wasn't selling because it was heavily overpriced.

I expect I'll buy one of these new 13" MacBookPro machines with a full load of BTO options. Compact and suitable, if perhaps a little heavier and thicker than I'd hoped.

 

[Veinticinco]

I think the MBA update is quite nice. But since i just bought my MBA six weeks ago, I won't be upgrading.

But honestly, how do you feel about the fact that if had held off for another month and bought it only a couple of weeks ago, then today you'd be able to return it for a slightly faster machine with slightly better battery life and saved yourself $700/£500 in the process (assuming SSD)? That's basically the value of a 24" ACD. If it were me, I'd feel extremely pissed off to say the least.

And that's even before we begin to discuss the display lines plague, which hopefully (but not assuredly) has been solved in this rev.B.2.

 

[Veinticinco]

Scottsdale, you know I'm a big fan of the MacBookAir's elegant no-frills form-factor, but I'm going to weigh in on this thread too.

After the update occasioned upon the MacBookPro 13", there is simply no comparison. That machine outranks the significantly more expensive Air by a wide margin. I've always argued that the compactness and elegance of the Air are worth a hefty premium, but by letting the Air fall behind Apple has really tipped the balance in disfavour of the Air.

The new MBP 13" is a formidable machine at a very attractive price. I'm not at all excited by it's wide spectrum of (useless for me) ports, and it annoys me to drag around the extra bulk of an optical drive I will never use. On the other hand, it offers a comparable screen, a backlit keyboard, expandable RAM and a 256GB SSD.

2GB of non-expendable RAM... are you kidding me?! 2GB might seem "tight, but acceptable" now, but it'll be tight in the next few months, especially when you get applications that use the GrandCentral API to run operations on the GPU and need to use oodles of RAM as a thoroughfare.

No mention of repaired screens?! No glass trackpad, we're stuck with a vestigial single-button trackpad? Oh, come on! It's pathetic. It's the same damned machine with a new price-tag... a discount for a machine that wasn't selling because it was heavily overpriced.

I expect I'll buy one of these new 13" MacBookPro machines with a full load of BTO options. Compact and suitable, if perhaps a little heavier and thicker than I'd hoped.

It's like you're reading my mind here

I'm having serious problems trying to justify the MBA to myself now in the face of such a superior machine (in all but weight and thickness) as the 13" MBP. That I hate the aesthetics of the horribly reflective black glass is still a problem for me - I really wish they'd offer a matte screened, silver-bezelled option like they do for the MBP17.

The extra weight of the MB would not be an issue for me.....IF I'd never experienced the MBA. I'm spoilt in that regard now sadly.

So what to use for the next 6-9 or maybe 12 months? On the face of it it has to be the MBP. But then speccing up the 2.26GHz MBP with an MBA-equivalent 128GB SSD - and the price is practically the same for both machines. Hmmmm. And since I already have a superdrive and ethernet adaptor. Hmmmm again. But then the MBP is SO much more for the money. And there's no guarantee the "new" MBA won't have the screen lines I experienced in THREE rev.Bs that passed through my hands this year.

And round and round I go......

 

[Scottsdale]

But honestly, how do you feel about the fact that if had held off for another month and bought it only a couple of weeks ago, then today you'd be able to return it for a slightly faster machine with slightly better battery life and saved yourself $700/£500 in the process (assuming SSD)? That's basically the value of a 24" ACD. If it were me, I'd feel extremely pissed off to say the least.

And that's even before we begin to discuss the display lines plague, which hopefully (but not assuredly) has been solved in this rev.B.2.

I would be pissed too. I cannot believe someone who paid $700 more for an inferior CPU/battery/ethernet cable is NOT PISSED!!! Apple has screwed over MBA buyers TWICE NOW! I couldn't believe how useless the original was. I don't blame Apple for charging $2499 last October. But Apple needs to reduce the pricing before dropping it a full $700. It just infuriates people to do it that way... especially when it's so much money!

I CANNOT WAIT to read about some v 2,2 MBA displays hopefully TODAY or TOMORROW. I want to know the model/version of the displays and what exactly they look like.

I have a bad feeling that even the displays on the new MBAs are going to look inferior to the MBP 13" displays... even without lines??? I loved my rev B MBA display, but with all this talk about how great the new displays are on the MBPs, it makes me wonder since the MBA got no "upgrade" in quality to the display.

I am going to do a review NOW ON THREE new Macs. Two friends and I will be reviewing the following FOUR Macs.

MBA (v 2,2) 2.13 GHz, 128 GB SSD, 2 GB RAM
13" MBP 2.26 GHz, 128 GB SSD, 2/4/8 GB RAM (will test all three configs)
15" MBP 2.8 GHz, 256 GB SSD 4/8 GB RAM
MBA (v 2,1 = rev B) 1.86 GHz, 128 GB SSD, 2 GB RAM

We will definitely workout a great way to measure, test, and record the differences between the Mac notebooks. My hypothesis is that I will enjoy the benefits of the 13" MBP, but that it will NOT overcome the FUN of the MBA. I predict that RAM will not speed up the other systems without having MORE APPS OPEN than commonly used (by the average Mac user, BUSINESS USER, and even PRO). I would guess that for the heavy duty traveler, the 13" MBP will be the definite buy for its 7-hour battery. I would guess for the all around business/entertainment user, that the MBA will provide more fun and enough power/performance to do all I need. I would guess that the DVD viewer will enjoy the optical drive and display on the 13" MBP better than the MBA. I have a lot of predictions. I will post all before hand and get a lot of other peoples opinions before doing this. We plan to take the whole next weekend to do this (unless by a miracle we get the three new Macs by Sunday).

If the new MBA has a display free from lines, it still doesn't mean that it will compare with the MBP 13" display??? I just wonder I guess as Apple has really said this is the best display ever in a Mac notebook??? But glass???

I am hopeful to NOT have to deal with the lines though... and never read about them again!

 

[Veinticinco]

MBA (v 2,2) 2.13 GHz, 128 GB SSD, 2 GB RAM
13" MBP 2.26 GHz, 128 GB SSD, 2/4/8 GB RAM (will test all three configs)

We will definitely workout a great way to measure, test, and record the differences between the Mac notebooks.

If the new MBA has a display free from lines, it still doesn't mean that it will compare with the MBP 13" display??? I just wonder I guess as Apple has really said this is the best display ever in a Mac notebook??? But glass???

I am hopeful to NOT have to deal with the lines though... and never read about them again!

Bravo and thanks! I cannot wait to see this.

Despite my rational brain saying 'dump the MBA', I am still paralysed by inertia at the thought of having to go back to the hefty chunkiness (comparatively) of the MB(P) - not to mention the awful black glass bezel. I am intrigued to see this new 'amazing' display though, particularly to see if it offsets the mirror-like glass covering it. I only wish they offered a matte option (with silver bezel) with the 13" like they do with the 17".

As I've said elsewhere, the screen lines issue is probably the clincher - I suspect it still may be present.