I have no problem following it, I'm just stating that the keyboard is to blame. I just disagree with your assessment.
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The 2019 butterfly keyboard is still a joke
- Thread starter jamesgryffindor99
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Having 8 keyboard failures in a row sounds to me like the OP is hard on the keyboards. I own a 2017 MBP and a 2019 MBA, both base models, and neither has shown any sign of keyboard issues. So, either the OP has received 8 faulty keyboards in a row, or I have received the only two existing non-malfunctioning butterfly keyboards.. or the OP is hard on the keys.
Perhaps it's time for some folks to take a close look at how hard they press their keys. No keyboard mechanism is going to be free from failure if the user pounds on the keys.
Saying that the OP is being "hard" on their keyboard, definitely sounds like the blame is being placed on them. And this is completely unjustified. The new design is simply not up to the task. just Because some people don't get failures does not mean the keyboard isn't a flawed design. It clearly is flawed: There have never been so many keyboard failures.
That some people are suffering more often is far from the point!
At my work we have a 50% failure rate on the butterfly design. Whereas I've never witnessed a keyboard failure before...
Users always find it easier to blame someone else rather than accept the possibility that they may be to blame.. deflecting blame is the easiest way to avoid the work necessary to bring about change. Nothing new there. I've actually seen people pound on their keyboard and then complain that the keyboard is faulty.
Oh, by the way, I don't like Apple.. I actually feel they're "getting too big for their britches" and need to be broken up into smaller entities. I don't believe in brand loyalty, I believe in device loyalty.. this is why I am defending my 2017 MBP and 2019 MBA - both with butterfly keyboards and no keyboard issues.
No, you think you disagree with it. You've yet to correctly characterize it, despite it being very plainly expressed from the start. You keep reading into it stuff that plainly isn't there.
You did the same with what the OP said. They said nothing about using non-butterfly keyboards without failure as you claimed. (Not that it would affect my point anyway.)
To be clear again, I've said nothing at all blaming the OP. The OP is very likely hard on keyboards, or possibly very unlucky. Whether being hard on keyboards is blameworthy is an entirely separate question.
What I said remains an incontrovertible matter of simple, basic logic.
Nope, sorry, you may think that, but you're wrong, either way, there's no need to keep beating a dead horse - I'm outta here
My 2019 MBP also got a stuck key, but that is just my experience.
I am surprised Apple is still selling these keyboards. Maybe they want the transition away from them to seem as natural as possible, in light of the class action lawsuit against Apple over them.
The only thing more surprising is there are customers who know Apple is selling them a product prone to defect, and yet are still willing to buy it.
I am surprised Apple is still selling these keyboards. Maybe they want the transition away from them to seem as natural as possible, in light of the class action lawsuit against Apple over them.
The only thing more surprising is there are customers who know Apple is selling them a product prone to defect, and yet are still willing to buy it.
Incredible. The horse was dead as soon as you made up stuff neither I nor the OP said and managed to get others to imagine it with you. You can lead a person to reasons, but you can't make them think.
Dont you heard? Butterfly keyboard issues are because of its customers, crackling audio sound issues are because of the users, if next macs will explode one by one,it will be users fault ...it seems apple never had a good lawyer..they lost and admitted something that was obviously because of its customers and not because of apple design ?. I wonder why samsung removed the note 7,because was clearly an user fault
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Or it could just be a bad design that fails easily, way to many people having multiple issues with these keyboards to say otherwise. Nothing to do with bad luck, just a ****** design which is proven by the move back to the scissor mechanism by Apple.
The only objective data I have seen (from AppleInsider) indicated that the number of keyboard repairs for the 2017 was of the same order of magnitude as the previous generation.
I do not question that some percentage of users have had severe problems and that therefore the design is not ROBUST. Therefore Apple is changing it.
But if more than 90% of the users do not need repairs and one user has 8 repairs there must be something in the way the product is used that accounts for the much higher failure rate. Regardless of your feelings on the topic this is just simple statistics.
I do believe it is meaningful to discuss what could trigger a failure, e.g. typing style and frequency of use, to allow someone considering a 2016 - 2019 if he / she is willing to take the risk.
For future products I assume Apple will move to the new keyboard on all systems.
I do not question that some percentage of users have had severe problems and that therefore the design is not ROBUST. Therefore Apple is changing it.
But if more than 90% of the users do not need repairs and one user has 8 repairs there must be something in the way the product is used that accounts for the much higher failure rate. Regardless of your feelings on the topic this is just simple statistics.
I do believe it is meaningful to discuss what could trigger a failure, e.g. typing style and frequency of use, to allow someone considering a 2016 - 2019 if he / she is willing to take the risk.
For future products I assume Apple will move to the new keyboard on all systems.
No, again, it can't be only the design unless the OP is exceedingly unlucky, because the OP's failure rate is way, way above that of the vast majority of users with the *same* design keyboard. Why is this so hard to follow? Why is it at all controversial?
There are other people who have had multiple failures just like the OP, I'm not going to argue semantics, let's just agree it's a bad design that is prone to failure.
I didn't heard about keyboard issues with the 2014 and 2015 models.
Presumably this user used something before the Butterfly keyboards.
This isn't about semantics (what word meaning is unclear?), it's about plain facts. No one else here has reported nearly as many failures. Again, the failure rate the OP describes is clearly way, way more than average for others with the same design.
What I've said is obviously true, and was from the start. The only interesting thing left here is why so many find it so hard to follow. Some kind of allergy to anything that isn't clearly an attack on the keyboard, maybe?
Everyone already knew the keyboard design was significantly more prone to failure than earlier designs, so there's no news in that.
Irrelevant. Again, this is about the failure rate of the butterfly design, which is on average far, far below what the OP had.
Not irrelevant. If this user had no problems with other keyboards, then it would indicate a problem with the butterfly keyboards as to durability.
No one is in doubt about whether there's a problem with the butterfly keyboards, as Apple has made clear by its replacement program. That isn't at issue. What was at issue was whether a failure rate of eight in a couple years indicates anything about the user, i.e. hard use or extreme bad luck. Hopefully not still at issue.
And that's why I want to know if he had a problem with keyboards in laptops. If his previous laptop keyboards didn't break, then it wasn't the user.
It would show that any hard use wasn't of a sort that broke other keyboards, I suppose, but it wouldn't show it wasn't some kind of hard use that contributed to the breaking of the butterfly ones. Different kinds of keyboards have different kinds of strengths, and what may break one may be fine for another. Hard use may include a high amount of use, striking keys hard, working in hot, dusty, exceptionally humid or otherwise difficult environments, or some combination.
Hard use of some kind is still by far the most likely contributor to the far greater failure rate, though exceedingly bad luck is barely possible as well. What else would have caused so many more of this user's to fail than those of other users with the same design?
Do you seriously think he's going to admit problems with other keyboards/laptops.. thereby admitting that the user is at fault? His entire rant in the OP would indicate otherwise. Think about it; he had 8 faulty keyboards in a row.. while I sit here with two butterfly keyboard machines and zero issues?!
I would expect newer keyboards to be better and that includes stronger and more durable, particularly since this keyboard was quite a bit more expensive to construct than past keyboards.
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I give people the benefit of the doubt.
I'm hard on keyboards too. I've had one failure on a Dell where they redesigned and replaced the keyboard and another failure on an external Dell keyboard which I spilled soup on. All of the others have been flawless. I haven't used the Butterfly keyboard. I generally use Cherry Blues which require a fair amount of force to type with. I'd love to try the Clear, Green or Super Black as I think that more force is a better way to type.
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I've had the cheapest USB keyboards not break and even my old 2009 white MacBook keyboard still works perfectly fine. These butterfly keyboards are really the only keyboards that I have fail on me. I'm in a few different Discords and i've seen other users have just as many failed keyboards, and a couple with more than me as well. The failing dome switch issue could potentially be heat-related due to how hot this thing gets under load.
I've used my fair share of $10 junk keyboards too. I saw one tech Apple reviewer talking about Macs and ARM and AMD and he said that some of the keyboard issues were due to heat and Intel being stock on a very old process.