The Car Thread ... !

[quagmire]

You're either extremely liberal with your use of "garbage" here, or you've never actually driven a vehicle that is garbage. The Camry is incredibly far from garbage. It's not the most exciting sedan in its class, but it's pretty good.

The irony.... Calls Cadillac's garbage because of a subjective opinion of their design( and political opinion of course which BTW I hope you never fly on the airlines or switched banks after they took bailouts...), but fights back on when someone calls the Camry garbage.....

And for discussion sake, what price do you think the ATS and CTS should start at?

 

[AustinIllini]

The irony.... Calls Cadillac's garbage because of a subjective opinion ( and political opinion of course which BTW I hope you never fly on the airlines or switched banks after they took bailouts...) of their design, but fights back on when someone calls the Camry garbage.....

Agreed. If Cadillac is garbage, a Camry is horse manure.

 

[luvmymbpr]

The irony.... Calls Cadillac's garbage because of a subjective opinion of their design( and political opinion of course which BTW I hope you never fly on the airlines or switched banks after they took bailouts...), but fights back on when someone calls the Camry garbage.....

And for discussion sake, what price do you think the ATS and CTS should start at?

It's not so much a political opinion as an economical one. They were a failure of a company that needed the government to survive. They built **** for years, and instead of going under like a normal company, they got a handout at the taxpayer's expense. I guess you also forgot that they deliberately put out faulty vehicles that killed people.

The best part is that they had a chance to get rid of the blood sucking Union when they claimed bankruptcy, but the union stays. Talk about insult to injury.

Also the difference between GM and the banks/flying is that people have a much broader range of choices. The majority of auto makers on this planet didn't need the government to survive. Most domestic airlines and most banks did, so the choices aren't always so easy.

 

[quagmire]

It's not so much a political opinion as an economical one. They were a failure of a company that needed the government to survive. They built **** for years, and instead of going under like a normal company, they got a handout at the taxpayer's expense. I guess you also forgot that they deliberately put out faulty vehicles that killed people.

If it was a healthy economy when they went under, I would be much for it. Fact is the economy was in shambles. Jobs were being lost. If GM and Chrysler went under, suppliers would have went under. Which would have sent ripples through the other automakers.

The bailout was an economical decision, not rewarding a failed company.

The reason Ford didn't get a bailout because a year before they mortgaged the company completely. Even including the logo.... If anything went wrong, if the economy worsened beyond than what it did, they could have very well been lined up with GM and Chrysler for money.....

And I guess Ford and Toyota should be labeled garbage because OMG they hid defects with the Pinto and the gas pedals.....

It doesn't surprise me when any company tries to hide defects. If the cost-benefit analysis says dealing with lawsuits is cheaper than recalling it, I would be fairly confident to say they would do exactly that.

Also the difference between GM and the banks/flying is that people have a much broader range of choices. The majority of auto makers on this planet didn't need the government to survive. Most domestic airlines and most banks did, so the choices aren't always so easy.

You do realize Toyota and Honda most likely got aid from their government during the recession as well? The Japanese government is incredibly protective of their industries.

 

[AustinIllini]

It's not so much a political opinion as an economical one. They were a failure of a company that needed the government to survive. They built **** for years, and instead of going under like a normal company, they got a handout at the taxpayer's expense. I guess you also forgot that they deliberately put out faulty vehicles that killed people.

The best part is that they had a chance to get rid of the blood sucking Union when they claimed bankruptcy, but the union stays. Talk about insult to injury.

Also the difference between GM and the banks/flying is that people have a much broader range of choices. The majority of auto makers on this planet didn't need the government to survive. Most domestic airlines and most banks did, so the choices aren't always so easy.

You're just reaching now. Nearly every car brand takes government funds, including Ford, Honda, Toyota, GM, Chrysler.

It's okay, you don't get cars. It's fine.

 

[luvmymbpr]

If it was a healthy economy when they went under, I would be much for it. Fact is the economy was in shambles. Jobs were being lost. If GM and Chrysler went under, suppliers would have went under. Which would have sent ripples through the other automakers.

The bailout was an economical decision, not rewarding a failed company.

The reason Ford didn't get a bailout because a year before they mortgaged the company completely. Even including the logo.... If anything went wrong, if the economy worsened beyond than what it did, they could have very well been lined up with GM and Chrysler for money.....

And I guess Ford and Toyota should be labeled garbage because OMG they hid defects with the Pinto and the gas pedals.....

It doesn't surprise me when any company tries to hide defects. If the cost-benefit analysis says dealing with lawsuits is cheaper than recalling it, I would be fairly confident to say they would do exactly that.




You do realize Toyota and Honda most likely got aid from their government during the recession as well? The Japanese government is incredibly protective of their industries.

Plenty of other companies went under without the government saving them. If any company truly deserved to go under, it was GM. Ther model of pure garbage was in the works for a while, and the Union was/is bleeding them dry.

"Too big to fail" is also a myth, since the demand would have still been there. Other auto companies would have picked up the slack of supply, and plenty of workers and parts manufacturers would have adjusted to different companies.

Also, I don't recall Toyota or Honda being at risk of a full collapse. Unlike GM, they make vehicles that people want to buy... not just a small handful of models that retain long standing loyalty from customers.

----------

You're just reaching now. Nearly every car brand takes government funds, including Ford, Honda, Toyota, GM, Chrysler.

It's okay, you don't get cars. It's fine.

Ahh yes, we can't discuss an impersonal topic without getting personal now can we? Sorry I offended your favorite auto maker.

Also, government subsidies aren't even close to a full bailout.

 

[AustinIllini]

Plenty of other companies went under without the government saving them. If any company truly deserved to go under, it was GM. Ther model of pure garbage was in the works for a while, and the Union was/is bleeding them dry.

"Too big to fail" is also a myth, since the demand would have still been there. Other auto companies would have picked up the slack of supply, and plenty of workers and parts manufacturers would have adjusted to different companies.

Also, I don't recall Toyota or Honda being at risk of a full collapse. Unlike GM, they make vehicles that people want to buy... not just a small handful of models that retain long standing loyalty from customers.

Get off it. You don't know what you're talking about, and you're clearly not knowledgeable when it comes to cars and you have an axe to grind with GM or the unions.

Go cry to PRSI.

----------

Ahh yes, we can't discuss an impersonal topic without getting personal now can we? Sorry I offended your favorite auto maker.

Also, government subsidies aren't even close to a full bailout.

I don't have a favorite automaker. I drive a Subaru and a Honda.

 

[luvmymbpr]

Get off it. You don't know what you're talking about, and you're clearly not knowledgeable when it comes to cars and you have an axe to grind with GM or the unions.

Go cry to PRSI.

----------



I don't have a favorite automaker. I drive a Subaru and a Honda.

Don't know what I'm talking about? What have I said that is incorrect?

What Subaru? Just bought a '15 outback. Absolutely love it.

 

[AustinIllini]

Don't know what I'm talking about? What have I said that is incorrect?

What Subaru? Just bought a '15 outback. Absolutely love it.

2014 Forester. It gets the job done. It's good for my dogs and it has me convinced I'll buy a Levorg S if it ever makes it over here.

 

[luvmymbpr]

2014 Forester. It gets the job done. It's good for my dogs and it has me convinced I'll buy a Levorg S if it ever makes it over here.

I like them a lot too. The changes to the 2015 outback were just too inviting to me. In a perfect world I would own several Subaru models.

 

[AustinIllini]

I like them a lot too. The changes to the 2015 outback were just too inviting to me. In a perfect world I would own several Subaru models.

Agreed. In a perfect world, they would all look closer to the BRZ than the WRX.

Edit: or the WRX would look like this

 

[macquariumguy]

You clearly don't get the concept of a halo car.

You say that to a long-time NSX owner? Really?

Most speculation is the C7 will remain with Stingray and Z06 and add the Zora ZR1 with mid-engine.

The test mule is out there. We are pretty sure it's happening. Mid-engine is better for tires and weight distribution. Most cars faster than the Z06 are mid-engined, anyway.

The Zora ZR1 halo car isn't catering to golfers, it's catering to real, supercar owners. The same people who will buy the NSX.

I don't doubt there are concepts running around. I don't even doubt there might be a limited production mid-rear car someday. I just don't think it will be called a Corvette. It sure as heck won't replace the Corvette.

 

[AustinIllini]

You say that to a long-time NSX owner? Really?







I don't doubt there are concepts running around. I don't even doubt there might be a limited production mid-rear car someday. I just don't think it will be called a Corvette. It sure as heck won't replace the Corvette.

I think most are speculating it is the new ZR1

 

[LadyX]

Anyone know if the rear console box in the QX80 can be removed to create like a pass through to the row behind?

 

[quagmire]

GM is bringing over the Opel Cascada as a Buick. Notably, it sticks with Opel's grille vs the waterfall grill. Wonder if the waterfall grill will be phased out.

 

[S.B.G]

GM is bringing over the Opel Cascada as a Buick. Notably, it sticks with Opel's grille vs the waterfall grill. Wonder if the waterfall grill will be phased out.

Image

Image

Wow, a convertible Buick! That's cool. I wonder when the last time they did that was.

 

[quagmire]

Wow, a convertible Buick! That's cool. I wonder when the last time they did that was.

25 years ago was the last time Buick had a convertible.

 

[yg17]

Agreed. In a perfect world, they would all look closer to the BRZ than the WRX.

Edit: or the WRX would look like this
Image

Ugh, stop reminding me of what the WRX could have been.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 2015 WRX. But every time I see that concept, I can't help but wonder WTF Subaru was thinking when they made the 2015 WRX what it is today.

 

[AustinIllini]

Ugh, stop reminding me of what the WRX could have been.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 2015 WRX. But every time I see that concept, I can't help but wonder WTF Subaru was thinking when they made the 2015 WRX what it is today.

I love everything about Subaru that matters. The boxer, the standard AWD, and the whole engineering philosophy. The only thing keeping me from swapping my TSX for a WRX (STI please!) is 1) The price and 2) hope that maybe they make it look a little different.

Congrats on your WRX, it's an awesome car. If the STI weren't so expensive, I would want one, too.

 

[AFEPPL]

This is my DD after having it detailed earlier this year.


http://youtu.be/FcqGqF3kUqQ

 

[yg17]

I love everything about Subaru that matters. The boxer, the standard AWD, and the whole engineering philosophy. The only thing keeping me from swapping my TSX for a WRX (STI please!) is 1) The price and 2) hope that maybe they make it look a little different.

Congrats on your WRX, it's an awesome car. If the STI weren't so expensive, I would want one, too.

Hah, that's exactly what I did.

The TSX no doubt had the nicer interior, I wouldn't expect anything less from Acura. But the WRX is just so much more fun to drive.

 

[2298754]

This is my DD after having it detailed earlier this year.


http://youtu.be/FcqGqF3kUqQ

I need an R8 (or 911) in my life. Only a few more years!

----------

GM is bringing over the Opel Cascada as a Buick. Notably, it sticks with Opel's grille vs the waterfall grill. Wonder if the waterfall grill will be phased out.

Image

Image

Doesn't look bad. What other verts are in this segment? Does VW still make the stupid Eos?

----------

Anyone know if the rear console box in the QX80 can be removed to create like a pass through to the row behind?


Image

http://forums.nicoclub.com/remove-the-2nd-row-center-stack-t537929.html

Side note, what a hideous car. Please get a Mercedes GL instead.

 

[AustinIllini]

This is my DD after having it detailed earlier this year.


http://youtu.be/FcqGqF3kUqQ

Welp. Time to get another job.

 

[2298754]

And for discussion sake, what price do you think the ATS and CTS should start at?

I think this discussion has gotten a tad dramatic. However, as much as I don't like Cadillac, the ATS and CTS are pretty solid cars. The only issue is that there is no way in hell Cadillac should be trying to command MB/Audi/BMW prices for them. The brand prestige is simply not there.

The CTS' current price cuts are a good sign, but they still need to lower them more. They were going for $10k-15k off MSRP last time I checked online. That is ridiculous. When have you ever seen an Audi A6 or Lexus GS with that much money on the hood? They don't need it to sell.

ATS has the same issue. They made too many of them and priced it too high. Residuals have tanked and used models aren't worth anything. Cadillac needs some internal management changes.

----------

That's simply not true. The CTS and ATS are as good as anything else on the market and the V models are incredible.

If they were, they would actually be selling.

You can pretend Lexus and Acura are relevant in the performance world, but outside the RC, Lexus is a fail and unless the NSX is a world beater (could be, I suppose), Acura hasn't done anything for over a decade.

IS-F, RC-F, GS-F, LF-A. All steps in the right direction. The GS and IS are near the top of their respective classes, in terms, of driving dynamics.

Acura is trash and deserves to be irrelevant.

 

[AustinIllini]

IS-F, RC-F, GS-F, LF-A. All steps in the right direction. The GS and IS are near the top of their respective classes, in terms, of driving dynamics.

GS-F is a miss. They underpowered it, so no one would cross shop it with the BMW M, MB AMG, or the Audi RS. IS-F is fine, but the RC-F is a lot better. The LFA is definitely fantastic, but they are also not available anymore.

The ES, IS are just snore machines with anemic V6 models.

Acura is trash and deserves to be irrelevant.

Acura is just Lexus without any of the F models an no RWD models.

The problem with Acura is Honda just has no gaul. They build Acura as upscale Honda instead of as its own mark. They have no coupes, no V8s and no models that are especially sporty.

The TLX is a great car for the people who want it. The RLX Sport Hybrid is a fantastic drivetrain under a bland snore machine. The RDX and MDX are better than any of their equivalents in other brands.

Honda split Acura from North American Honda next year. This does two things. First, it separates the Acura philosophy (which is quickly moving to AWD) from the Honda philosophy. Second, it puts increased pressure on the Acura brass to perform, as they can no longer hide behind the huge Civic and Accord sales.

Acura is just miles behind in a lot of ways, but damn, you can get a lot of standard features for a low price for a luxury automobile.