The Car Thread ... !

[D.T.]

Hahaha, I had people hanging all over my car today, not generally out when it's crowded out and about, but had to track down a present (special vodka, see Beer and Wine thread )

The lowering, spacers, exhaust and blacked out logo just totally change the car (one guy was flipping out) combined with the black on black on black of the Perf Package.

I just find it interesting that most or the people I know who are passionate about cars still look for "good" service.

The follow up service is a one component of my model, and by relation, my manufacturer selection. We bailed on BMW due to mediocre service combined with a +terrible+ location (over an hour away), and the local GM options are the worst.

 

[quagmire]

For the general public, I agree with you. I just find it interesting that most or the people I know who are passionate about cars still look for "good" service. Of course if you receive it, it's an added bonus but I won't hang my buying decision on it. As long as I get the car I want and the price I want, I will buy from anyone even if it's the worst-rated dealer in the city. Doesn't mean I have to go there for service.

It's not irrational to want a certain level of service if paying a certain price, but at the end of the day, it's about me and the car I want and if I can get my car on my terms, who cares about everything else. Someone on the forums once left a deal on the table because the sales rep was rude and unprofessional. He ended up buying from another dealer at a higher price but said he didn't mind because they valued him. It's that person's choice but I think its ridiculous that he did that.

Again, good service = getting the car I want on my terms. Everything else I don't care.

I just want to be treated with respect and have the person be friendly and recognize that I probably do know more about the car than them and I'm very particular on how I want my car configured.

For instance, when I signed up for TrueCar to see what people were getting off the Camaro in my area, apparently they send my info to the dealers in my area. I got calls from three dealers non stop for almost a month and a half now. That's not going to win my business having you call and bug me. So yeah there is still a certain level of service I want from the dealer even if I just want to walk in get the deal and drive out with my new car. It doesn't have to be on the extreme side of excellent, but just to be enough where I don't feel like I'm being looked down upon or fighting to get the car I want.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Personally I think GM should have dropped the Buick line years ago when they were dropping brands like Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Saturn. No matter how great a Buick is, even if on par with Lexus, let's face it no under the age of 70 has any interest in a Buick in the US.

The best thing the could have done IMO was drop the Buick name and reinvent a new brand geared more towards the younger generations. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have played a similar game creating spin off luxury brands. And now Hyundai is playing it smart, isolating their Genisis and Equis premium vehicles into their own brand to dissociate themselves from a cheaper line.

And frankly I think the same could be said for Lincoln. Let go of the nostalgia and go for actually attracting buyers.

The American concept of brand rebadging while a sensible business tactic has become a disproven method. Remarketing the same car with a similar appearance under 12 different price points and dealers does not seem to be viable.

Cadillac IMO has been holding on by the skin of its teeth, but needs to go further in keeping their models relevant. Usually that lies in the little details and improving things customers see fit. I think GM in particular likes to cut corners following the following forumula: cut $1 here, sell 1m cars, save $1m dollars. To all extent companies work this way, but I think GM is notorious for this. In premium level cars people expect attention to detail, not renaming, repurposing, corner cutting, and brand dilution.

This may sound silly and something Jonny Ive would say, but even as something basic as they key I think is important. It's usually the first part of the car people come in contact with, it's almost a peice of jewelry give how much time it spends on the owner. When a luxury brand repurposed their cheap keyfob for lowend models in cars that cost 3x as much, it seems silly. Or even between brands.

Which reminds me I never liked the key on my E60, found on other models too. Chinsy plastic, no meaningful heft, what does the BMW logo have to do with locking the car, if anything I would think BMW would mean unlock. But that's what the up arrow key is for, or is that a down arrow. BMW's new smart key in the 7 is far more ridiculous, with the brick phone sized remote. Does anyone know if Lexus still makes that credit card sized wallet smart key transmitter. Aside from the understandable lack of buttons, that was a great idea.

 

[quagmire]

Personally I think GM should have dropped the Buick line years ago when they were dropping brands like Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Saturn. No matter how great a Buick is, even if on par with Lexus, let's face it no under the age of 70 has any interest in a Buick in the US.

The best thing the could have done IMO was drop the Buick name and reinvent a new brand geared more towards the younger generations. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have played a similar game creating spin off luxury brands. And now Hyundai is playing it smart, isolating their Genisis and Equis premium vehicles into their own brand to dissociate themselves from a cheaper line.

And frankly I think the same could be said for Lincoln. Let go of the nostalgia and go for actually attracting buyers.

The American concept of brand rebadging while a sensible business tactic has become a disproven method. Remarketing the same car with a similar appearance under 12 different price points and dealers does not seem to be viable.

Cadillac IMO has been holding on by the skin of its teeth, but needs to go further in keeping their models relevant. Usually that lies in the little details and improving things customers see fit. I think GM in particular likes to cut corners following the following forumula: cut $1 here, sell 1m cars, save $1m dollars. To all extent companies work this way, but I think GM is notorious for this. In premium level cars people expect attention to detail, not renaming, repurposing, corner cutting, and brand dilution.

This may sound silly and something Jonny Ive would say, but even as something basic as they key I think is important. It's usually the first part of the car people come in contact with, it's almost a peice of jewelry give how much time it spends on the owner. When a luxury brand repurposed their cheap keyfob for lowend models in cars that cost 3x as much, it seems silly. Or even between brands.

Buick has done fairly well here in the US post-bankruptcy though. The Enclave, LaCrosse, and Encore have sold very well. The LaCrosse was even outselling the Lexus ES for awhile. I think Buick is also a key for Cadillac's turn around. Cadillac can have a more focused lineup in trying to get younger itself vs trying to cater to their established base with soft vehicles( in design and ride) and trying to get the younger crowd in with more sharper looks and engaging driving experience. Buick can keep the soft design and comfortable ride. Though if Buick did want to go younger, they just need to convince the bean counters, etc to have the balls to green light vehicles like the Avista and Avenir.

Outside of the trucks and full size SUV's, can't really say GM has stuck to the usual sense when you say rebadging. Yeah it was fairly bad pre-bankruptcy, but most of their vehicles look differentiated from their platform mates today.

But I definitely agree that GM still needs to work on attention to detail especially with Cadillac. Build quality on my dads ATS is fine, but I have seen others with horrible build quality that should not have left the factory in the state they were in. Now that Lansing is also building the Camaro, I hope they don't become further lax in their build quality. While no vehicle should be put together poorly, you have to have stricter tolerances for a Cadillac vs Chevy. Not sure if that is being done when they put together a Camaro and then the vehicle behind it is a CTS or ATS.

Of course they could also hold the Camaro to the same strict tolerances as they should when they assemble a Cadillac and also have great build quality also help justify the higher price of the Camaro vs the Mustang.....

CUE should never been released in the original state it was in. Not sure if GM went cheap with the SoC and underpowered it or it was just poorly written software( probably both), but when I tested it out in 2012, it was slow and not very responsive. It's better in my dads 2014 model, but it still can be laggy especially in the nav screen.

I like Cadillac's and I love my dads ATS. It drives great, I do like the interior design and think the materials are equal or even better than my dads old E90 and willing to overlook it's horrendously cheap instrument cluster, the faults in CUE, etc because of how it looks and drives. Maybe though I am not a typical luxury car buyer that picks apart vehicles that some certainly can. I don't care that the remote is shared within the brand. I would care if it was the same remote as a Chevy though.

 

[0388631]

the salesman kept on harping on how much money we could save buying an off the lot 2013 model. Never once told us anything about the car itself. And wouldn't stop saying how much we could save despite not having any vehicles configured anywhere close to what my dad wanted in inventory.

This is a universal issue among car salespeople. They're all half-wits save for the very few at each dealership who know their inventory like the back of their hand, and if given the chance, would backhand their fellow employees for their absolute idiocy.

 

[quagmire]

This is a universal issue among car salespeople. They're all half-wits save for the very few at each dealership who know their inventory like the back of their hand, and if given the chance, would backhand their fellow employees for their absolute idiocy.

I don't care the salesman didn't know what they had in stock in the back of their head, but when he looked it up and clearly had nothing close to the way my dad wanted his ATS in stock, he still kept trying to push how much money we could save on a 2013 despite how clear we were that we weren't interested.

I know it is a universal issue among salespeople, but when your image is already in the gutter and people are not coming in and buying the car just because of the badge and image of the luxury brand, you need good salespeople to help. Cause if you treat them like crap, it just further turns them off from buying a Cadillac. They are already unsure about buying a Caddy because of the old man image and it isn't a German car or Lexus. Can't pile a bad salesperson/dealer onto that either. Reading on BMW forums, people went to look at the ATS/CTS and they were turned off by the dealer experience without even looking at the cars themselves.

 

[0388631]

The problem with GM, and to cast a wider net, American brands and certain Japanese ones, such as Subaru, is that their dealer experience is absolutely terrible. I noted this a while back. Essentially, one could theoretically own a F12 and drive to a Chevy dealer, look at the higher end Corvettes such as the Z06, ask to drive one or sit in one and be treated like scum by the dealer. Subaru do it with their WRX STI lineup as well. I've heard and read the first hand accounts. It's ridiculous.
[doublepost=1474756391][/doublepost]

I don't care the salesman didn't know what they had in stock in the back of their head, but when he looked it up and clearly had nothing close to the way my dad wanted his ATS in stock, he still kept trying to push how much money we could save on a 2013 despite how clear we were that we weren't interested.

I know it is a universal issue among salespeople, but when your image is already in the gutter and people are not coming in and buying the car just because of the badge and image of the luxury brand, you need good salespeople to help. Cause if you treat them like crap, it just further turns them off from buying a Cadillac. They are already unsure about buying a Caddy because of the old man image and it isn't a German car or Lexus. Can't pile a bad salesperson/dealer onto that either. Reading on BMW forums, people went to look at the ATS/CTS and they were turned off by the dealer experience without even looking at the cars themselves.

See my updated post. BMW, MBZ, Porsche, Lexus, et al... and even Acura to tickle Austin's fancy... know not to treat a potential customer like crap. The issue with American dealers is that you're either oozing money as soon as you hit the lot or not. You'll be prejudged by a salesperson. Whereas if you go to a Porsche dealer on a busy day, the clientele looks like they don't belong in a Porsche. Contrary to popular film, the average buyer of a Porsche or more exotic cars do not look like they belong anywhere close to a dealer. Dressing down and blending in, apart from owning or about purchasing an exotic, is key for these people.

Meanwhile, as I said, you could drive over to a Chevy dealership in an F12, be criticized for owning an "Eye-Talian" car and inundated with questions and kept there for six hours before you can drive a Z06 Corvette, and possibly be asked to provide a security deposit of $5,000.

Meanwhile at Lexus, Granny Anne can take her 20 year old LS400 in and be treated like royalty. Offered scones and other assorted baked goods, made a cappuccino, drip or espresso in one of eight selections of beans, given a leather chair to relax in, maybe offered other amenities like sparkling water, an ottoman to rest her feet on, juice, a club sandwich made in house by a cook, etc. The service manager will walk her through all the suggested work to be done, explain it in simple English and whip out his or her phone to show pictures to Granny Anne to aid her in making her judgment. Granny Anne decides to pay for the entire tuneup and Lexus is thankful for her business. They provide her a 2 week loaner of an LS460 or RX300 and give her a temporary gas card out of the goodness of their hearts.

I'm basing this example of the Lexus dealership experience closest to me, and one that I've been a customer with since I got our Lexus. I'm not sure if all Lexus are like that, but I imagine they're very close.

 

[iLog.Genius]

I have experience with some good salespeople and bad salespeople. You would have to do a lot to get me very angry or upset and none of the bad ones I've experienced ever got to that point. I find that it's not much an attitude problem but more to do ********ting. I've already decided to ignore most of what they're saying but once I hear one lie or incorrect fact or tidbit about the car, I'm completely tuning you out.

 

[0388631]

Truly lying or simply not knowing the car in and out and confusing options and features with other cars in the manufacturer's lineup? I could understand lying if you went to a Honda dealer and were told the Accord EX V6 was all-time rear-wheel-drive, when it's not. Though that would be a fun drive.

 

[2298754]

But I definitely agree that GM still needs to work on attention to detail especially with Cadillac. Build quality on my dads ATS is fine, but I have seen others with horrible build quality that should not have left the factory in the state they were in.

"Fine" doesn't cut it at this level, especially when the company seems to have the attitude that they can charge just as much as the Germans/Lexus for their cars.

I was recently in my friend's ATS. 2016 2.0T AWD with 3k on it. The build quality on that car is junk. No Lexus/BMW/Audi/Mercedes would leave the factory like this. Never

[doublepost=1474807868][/doublepost]

I'm basing this example of the Lexus dealership experience closest to me, and one that I've been a customer with since I got our Lexus. I'm not sure if all Lexus are like that, but I imagine they're very close.

Yes, all of this. Lexus customer service is industry leading. They know how to treat their customers.
[doublepost=1474808154][/doublepost]

Part of the re-imaging of the brand would require them to mimic what BMW, Mercedes and Audi do, that is to have their own separate showrooms. I'm not saying they can't be joint, but you can't have Cadillac mixed with other cars. MINI and SMART have their own showrooms despite being connected to the same building as BMW and Mercedes showrooms and that's something Cadillac needs to do if they want to shed their current image.

While Audi does have plenty of separate showrooms, VW/Audi showrooms do exist. That hasn't stopped from selling like hotcakes. It's the execution and customer service that is lacking from the pretender luxury brands.

[doublepost=1474808290][/doublepost]

This question is more for us in this thread because we know more about cars than the general population, but do you guys look for a good buying experience or what would you consider a good buying service?

No thanks to buying services. I know exactly what I want and have no problem waiting for a few months for an order. I hate buying off the lot because it's impossible to find exactly what you're looking for.

I hate how some dealers push those stupid manager specials cars that their wives/family have driven for X amount off MSRP. Quite annoying

 

[quagmire]

"Fine" doesn't cut it at this level, especially when the company seems to have the attitude that they can charge just as much as the Germans/Lexus for their cars.

I was recently in my friend's ATS. 2016 2.0T AWD with 3k on it. The build quality on that car is junk. No Lexus/BMW/Audi/Mercedes would leave the factory like this. Never

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that GM needs to do better in order to truly compete with the Germans and Lexus when it comes to build quality. I am sure I could find build quality issues in my dads ATS if I pay closer attention to it. To the issues you posted of your friends ATS, would I personally make a huge fuss and be pissed with those issues? Probably not as I don't see that build quality as being horrendous and in day to day life, probably wouldn't notice those issues as I am driving the car. I have seen far worse though from other ATS's as well that would bug me. And GM probably counts on people like me to overlook small build quality issues. I recognize that I am probably not a typical luxury car buyer.

I am not trying to make excuses as I know I am known to always defend GM here on this thread. GM still needs to improve in a lot of areas and the issues you posted with that ATS shouldn't happen and GM shouldn't tolerate it leaving the factory like that.

 

[iLog.Genius]

While Audi does have plenty of separate showrooms, VW/Audi showrooms do exist. That hasn't stopped from selling like hotcakes. It's the execution and customer service that is lacking from the pretender luxury brands.

That's fine. From what I can see, they share the same building but have separate showrooms where Audi's are not placed beside or with VW's. Some Mercedes and BMW dealerships do the same with SMART and MINI - either they share the same building but the showrooms are separated/sectioned off or there's a showroom across the street from each other. Here in the GTA, Cadillacs are actually placed with other GM cars which I don't think needs any explanation as to why that is a bad idea with regards to brand image.

 

[quagmire]

Speaking of my dads ATS, it was a beautiful weekend to wash cars... Gave my car and my dads a nice wash( though got a bit lazy and didn't wash the wheels ). I love the iPhone 7 Plus's camera.

 

[D.T.]

Speaking of VW ... hahaha, this is _very_ peripheral to car talk, but we went to a fashion show at the VW dealer here in town last night

The catwalk came out of the side service bays

 

[A.Goldberg]

My sister went in a Jeep dealer interested in buying a new Grand Cherokee. She also asked about leasing because she doesn't plan on staying where she is for more than a couple years before moving back east. The first number they threw out on a lease was $12,000 down. She called me and asked if that was high. I told her she needed to walk out of the showroom and never look back.

Sure enough she replaced her 2014 RAV4 limited with buying a 2016 RAV4 limited. What a joke. She very well might have bought a Jeep had the dealer not been such a jerk.

 

[quagmire]

My sister went in a Jeep dealer interested in buying a new Grand Cherokee. She also asked about leasing because she doesn't plan on staying where she is for more than a couple years before moving back east. The first number they threw out on a lease was $12,000 down. She called me and asked if that was high. I told her she needed to walk out of the showroom and never look back.

Sure enough she replaced her 2014 RAV4 limited with buying a 2016 RAV4 limited. What a joke. She very well might have bought a Jeep had the dealer not been such a jerk.

Was it the only Jeep dealer in the area?

Cause this raises another interesting question. If you're definitely interested in a car, but get bad treatment at the dealer to where you don't want to give them your business, why not go to a different dealer to see if you can get a better deal/treatment? I totally understand if it was the only dealer for that brand in the area. But in my area at least there is tons of Chevy dealers, Jeep dealers, Ford dealers, etc all within ~30 minutes of my house. So if I get a horrible deal from one Chevy dealer when it comes time to order the Camaro, I can just drive down the road to another Chevy dealer and let the fighting commence where I should win as the dealers battle to earn my business.

But similar thing happened to my sister. She is not too knowledgable on cars and got taken on a ride from her local BMW dealer and bought a F30 328i and the terms was a horrendous deal. I don't remember the exact details of the original deal, but our dad helped her out and fought the dealer over it.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Was it the only Jeep dealer in the area?

Cause this raises another interesting question. If you're definitely interested in a car, but get bad treatment at the dealer to where you don't want to give them your business, why not go to a different dealer to see if you can get a better deal/treatment? I totally understand if it was the only dealer for that brand in the area. But in my area at least there is tons of Chevy dealers, Jeep dealers, Ford dealers, etc all within ~30 minutes of my house. So if I get a horrible deal from one Chevy dealer when it comes time to order the Camaro, I can just drive down the road to another Chevy dealer and let the fighting commence where I should win as the dealers battle to earn my business.

But similar thing happened to my sister. She is not too knowledgable on cars and got taken on a ride from her local BMW dealer and bought a F30 328i and the terms was a horrendous deal. I don't remember the exact details of the original deal, but our dad helped her out and fought the dealer over it.

The only Jeep dealer within a distance she felt was practical to her. I asked the same question, but it's not just about buying the car, it's bringing it to get serviced, etc. I believe one was 15-20 min, the others were more like 40min. Sadly, if one dealer leaves a bad taste in your mouth it's entirely possible to leave a bad taste in your mouth for all dealers of that brand.

My dad owned a Range Rover in the early 2000's, bought and serviced by an awful dealer nearby their house in CT. When my dad got his RRS more than a decade later, he got it at his friend's dealer 1.5hrs away and does a lot of his repair work there despite the inconvenience. My mom owned a A6 Allroad around the same time, awful car, awful dealer, swore off the brand for good, but years later switched to another dealer and has been very happy.

It's one thing to own an unreliable car, it's another to go to a dealer who likes to turn car buying into a game, with a service center that can't diagnose, that commits warranty fraud, forget to call to say the car is ready, that leaves grease marks on the headliner, and doesn't have the courtesy to vacuum the car. Why is it that a $50k Audi dealer won't clean the car after $5000 worth of work but my Jeep dealer would after a simple oil change. It's the little details that count.

In part people are attracted to the cars they buy for a variety of factors- aesthetics, quality, performance, cost, reliability. At the same time a lot of less car savvy people like to remain loyal to their dealers.

I know for instance my parents friends- not exactly the wealthiest people- one's a teacher the other works in commercial food sales, have zero interest in cars. They bought a Saturn and had a good experience with the cars and dealers, so they kept buying Saturns. Cheap to buy and own, good warranty, no haggle pricing, great dealer. When Saturn got dumped they moved to Honda and now have exclusively purchased Hondas after a good dealer and ownership experience.

 

[quagmire]

The only Jeep dealer within a distance she felt was practical to her. I asked the same question, but it's not just about buying the car, it's bringing it to get serviced, etc. I believe one was 15-20 min, the others were more like 40min. Sadly, if one dealer leaves a bad taste in your mouth it's entirely possible to leave a bad taste in your mouth for all dealers of that brand.

My dad owned a Range Rover in the early 2000's, bought and serviced by an awful dealer nearby their house in CT. When my dad got his RRS more than a decade later, he got it at his friend's dealer 1.5hrs away and does a lot of his repair work there despite the inconvenience. My mom owned a A6 Allroad around the same time, awful car, awful dealer, swore off the brand for good, but years later switched to another dealer and has been very happy.

It's one thing to own an unreliable car, it's another to go to a dealer who likes to turn car buying into a game, with a service center that can't diagnose, that commits warranty fraud, forget to call to say the car is ready, that leaves grease marks on the headliner, and doesn't have the courtesy to vacuum the car. Why is it that a $50k Audi dealer won't clean the car after $5000 worth of work but my Jeep dealer would after a simple oil change. It's the little details that count.

In part people are attracted to the cars they buy for a variety of factors- aesthetics, quality, performance, cost, reliability. At the same time a lot of less car savvy people like to remain loyal to their dealers.

I know for instance my parents friends- not exactly the wealthiest people- one's a teacher the other works in commercial food sales, have zero interest in cars. They bought a Saturn and had a good experience with the cars and dealers, so they kept buying Saturns. Cheap to buy and own, good warranty, no haggle pricing, great dealer. When Saturn got dumped they moved to Honda and now have exclusively purchased Hondas after a good dealer and ownership experience.

It's also interesting that car people have the same reaction. I can understand non-car people make the connection of the dealer being directly tied with corporate so a bad dealer experience sours them on the brand. But I have read on car forums that car people that know dealers are independent swear off the brand due to one bad dealer.

But totally understand the bad service thing too. Reading the 6th gen Camaro forums, some Chevy dealers are only putting in 6 quarts of oil into the LT1 V8 when it takes 10 quarts during an oil change. While my local Chevy dealer has been very good to our family sales and service wise, that crap is scaring me into doing my own oil changes once I get my SS. Due to being treated well by our preferred Chevy dealer, I feel like they will give me a good deal on the Camaro and don't intend to start a price battle between the multiple Chevy dealers in my area. They have always given us good deals on all of our Chevy's when buying them.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Just saw a mentioning of the 2017 Honda Accord. Doesn't seem to even resemble an Accord. They really started beefing-up their line-up in around 2013/2014. I've also noticed this with Toyota: they're taking otherwise mundane vehicles and are giving them sharper, meaner appearances. (Take, for example, the previous-gen Toyota Corolla vs. the current one.)

From what I hear, though, the new Hondas aren't just looking better - I believe they have improved greatly since around 2013. There's quite a difference between the 2012 Honda Accord and the current ones. New tech and features are obvious, but I believe that the ride quality and interiors have also improved. (Also, isn't there continuously variable transmission in these new Hondas? That's something that our 2012 Accord didn't have.)

Even our 2012 Honda Accord, however, wasn't a terrible car. We had zero issues with it (even after our drifting rodeo) during our 3-year lease; and the car actually rode pretty smoothly. Its leather wrapped (but, of course, vinyl on the sides) seats were more comfortable than those in our current Range Rover, it had lots of leg room (it was a big sedan on the inside), and the interior was both fairly pleasant to the eye and acceptably solid.

What I liked most was how soft the suspension was. Now, it may have been slightly too soft, as the car would dip a little bit while going over uneven surfaces at high speeds, but it wasn't anything extreme. Considering that the car was pretty front-heavy, though, it would have been nicer to have had stiffer front suspension. That being said, the rear suspension was fine and ultimately comfortable for rear passengers. I actually preferred riding in the back because it felt surprisingly nice. Getting into a Hyundai Sonata makes one appreciate how relatively comfortable the Honda was. It makes me curious about how the new Accords feel...

Driving it wasn't too bad either. I liked that I could give the car some punch, yet not startle passengers or have the car jerk. The brakes were alright, and the handling was acceptable. I felt the power steering to be fluid and adequate. (However, it was difficult to take this car on a solemn). My only huge complaint about the driving style is the fact that the car was a bit too front-heavy and was a FWD vehicle.

Here's the current Accord, and here's a side shot of the alleged '2017 Honda Accord.' The rear window (right by the C-pillar) on that '2017 Honda Accord' reminds me of Lexus... and maybe a tiny bit of Nissan.

 

[quagmire]

You take an Accord drifting?

Wut.

 

[0388631]

That looks quite good, @quagmire! May I inquire what products you used? I'm a bit of a self detailer because I don't trust others with cars. You'll have to forgive me for sounding strange here, but that house looks incredibly familiar. You didn't ever by chance own a mineral gray E92 with tan/terra cotta interior around 2007, did you?

My sister went in a Jeep dealer interested in buying a new Grand Cherokee. She also asked about leasing because she doesn't plan on staying where she is for more than a couple years before moving back east. The first number they threw out on a lease was $12,000 down. She called me and asked if that was high. I told her she needed to walk out of the showroom and never look back.

Sure enough she replaced her 2014 RAV4 limited with buying a 2016 RAV4 limited. What a joke. She very well might have bought a Jeep had the dealer not been such a jerk.

Was this recent or months ago? I recall you saying a driver totaled her previous RAV 4. The new RAV 4s are lovely looking cars and they're the perfect compact SUV size.
[doublepost=1474850527][/doublepost]

they're taking otherwise mundane vehicles and are giving them sharper, meaner appearances. (Take, for example, the previous-gen Toyota Corolla vs. the current one.)

I can't count the number of times I've seen an Accord from the rear on the freeway and in my tired state thinking it was a previous gen E Class.
[doublepost=1474850819][/doublepost]An Accord drifting? Interesting concept... Yes, the new Hondas are very badass as people say. That CVT gunning the engine like a murderous rampage is occurring down the street and the screams heard as mere buzzy droning surely knocks the ladies flat. What Honda's engineers were thinking when they came up with the idea to CVT everything. Right up there with the newly patented 11 gear DCT.

 

[2298754]

Does anyone know if Lexus still makes that credit card sized wallet smart key transmitter. Aside from the understandable lack of buttons, that was a great idea.

It's a shame the wallet key never took off. It was a great idea. Mazda used to do a slim key too.

 

[0388631]

Why?

 

[quagmire]

That looks quite good, @quagmire! May I inquire what products you used? I'm a bit of a self detailer because I don't trust others with cars. You'll have to forgive me for sounding strange here, but that house looks incredibly familiar. You didn't ever by chance own a mineral gray E92 with tan/terra cotta interior around 2007, did you?

I use these products to wash our cars:

http://www.detailedimage.com/DI-Accessories-M12/Sheepskin-Wash-Mitt-wno-thumb-P209/

http://www.detailedimage.com/DI-Microfiber-M13/Waffle-Weave-Drying-Towel-P100/16-x-16-S2/

http://www.detailedimage.com/Dodo-Juice-M35/Born-to-be-Mild-Shampoo-P250/250-ml-S1/

http://www.detailedimage.com/Stoner-M20/Invisible-Glass-P115/19-oz-S1/

My dad use to own an E90 2007 335xi in whatever that gray was called with a black interior before the ATS. I have posted pics of it here a few times( in the pics of your car threads). My brother has the E90 now.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Just saw a mentioning of the 2017 Honda Accord. Doesn't seem to even resemble an Accord. They really started beefing-up their line-up in around 2013/2014. I've also noticed this with Toyota: they're taking otherwise mundane vehicles and are giving them sharper, meaner appearances. (Take, for example, the previous-gen Toyota Corolla vs. the current one.)

Historically Japanese/Asian vehicles have gone for a softer, happier, less aggressive styling versus the Americans and to some degree the Europeans. It's seems the pendulum of styling is heading to aggressive.

Even our 2012 Honda Accord, however, wasn't a terrible car. We had zero issues with it (even after our drifting rodeo) during our 3-year lease; and the car actually rode pretty smoothly. Its leather wrapped (but, of course, vinyl on the sides) seats were more comfortable than those in our current Range Rover, it had lots of leg room (it was a big sedan on the inside), and the interior was both fairly pleasant to the eye and acceptably solid.

Rodeo drifting in an Accord.. or any FWD car. Jeeze. I can see why your parents got you and your brother a beater police interceptor to tool around with. Reminder to self: never buy an offlease car. You never know where it's been

I have never found the rear rests of the Gen 1 Range Rover Sport to be amazingly cushy. They are certainly firm, which I believe is designed to go along with then "sport" designation. The big daddy Range has much more comfortable seats. I have a screwed up back so I don't find the seats the bestbin the sport but most people find them supportive. The older Acura MDX IMO based on my back issues has one of the worst driving rear seats in terms of comfort for me- I think it has something to do with the angle.

What I liked most was how soft the suspension was. Now, it may have been slightly too soft, as the car would dip a little bit while going over uneven surfaces at high speeds, but it wasn't anything extreme. Considering that the car was pretty front-heavy, though, it would have been nicer to have had stiffer front suspension. That being said, the rear suspension was fine and ultimately comfortable for rear passengers. I actually preferred riding in the back because it felt surprisingly nice. Getting into a Hyundai Sonata makes one appreciate how relatively comfortable the Honda was. It makes me curious about how the new Accords feel...

Haven driven a similar accord I never found the suspension that soft. It certainly has a lot of body roll but the bumps weren't mitigated as well as something like the Camry. The steering was good (but who knows how it is now, I assume they're using electronic PS which tends to not be great). Accerslltion with the V6 was still like 7sec which isn't particularly good these days. Overall I felt it was sloppy with the suspension, prone to lots of road noise, and just not as quick as the completion. Overall not a bad family sedan, and styling wise way better than the Camry.

And way too many buttons.