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The Car Thread ... !
- Thread starter D.T.
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Only a fool with more money than sense would buy a 100k bimmer d-bomb. Lease is the only way on these kind of toys.
Depends. I think it’s based on one’s intentions if they want to purchase a vehicle with a six figure price tag if it was a long term purchase, or; if somebody wants a car temporarily without the means of owning it, then a lease would be the most suitable option. But I believe the likely option with cars like these is a lease.
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Correct. M5s depreciate like crazy. It makes no sense to buy one. Lease one for 3 years and move onto the next super sedan.
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LOL @ the Tesla comparison
But Tesla is changing the world!
I think I prefer the styling of the Mercedes this gen. The new E63S is a monster also.
https://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/e63-s-4matic
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0-60 3.0 seconds.Correct. M5s depreciate like crazy. It makes no sense to buy one. Lease one for 3 years and move onto the next super sedan.
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But Tesla is changing the world!
I think I prefer the styling of the Mercedes this gen. The new E63S is a monster also.
https://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/e63-s-4matic
5-60 3.9 seconds?
I think they made a typo unless I'm missing something?
Yes ... of course
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That's very typical, especially with launch control (and things like AWD). With 0-60, the car starts at high RPM, and gets to 5MPH almost instantly, and then it's in the powerband, max traction has been achieved, starting at 5MPH, the car is at lower RPM, everything has to wind up, transmissions have to downshift, etc.
Fair enough. I usually just look at the 0-60 times, not the 5-60 so I hadn't come across that before.Yes ... of course
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That's very typical, especially with launch control (and things like AWD). With 0-60, the car starts at high RPM, and gets to 5MPH almost instantly, and then it's in the powerband, max traction has been achieved, starting at 5MPH, the car is at lower RPM, everything has to wind up, transmissions have to downshift, etc.
Maintenance would be covered on either car under a lease, and with an extended warranty on purchase. That said, I'd say the BMW would be "cheaper" to maintain out of warranty due to the parts being logical to the generation of cars, and also some cross designation parts matching. There's not much in the MBZ world. VAG cars use platforms and non-specific parts to keep costs down. Even a high end Lamborghini will have some basic VAG parts here and there in the car, and the other way around if it's financially sound for the group.
Toyota did this with Lexus for a long time, still does, but not as much. If your Camry breaks down, it's a cheap fix, cheap being relative to a German car. If your Lexus breaks down, expect to pay about 80-85% of what you would on a German car. It makes zero sense, but that's the way it is. With BMW, they ride on evolutionary development, which is a good thing.
Anyway, M5s tend to be leased out because they're going to be hooned by the owners one way or another. More people are bound to express negative feelings about their cars than positive. That said, the typical M5/E63 leaser/buyer is going to be in their mid to late 40s and above. Typical touring/wagon buyers on either car or in Europe's case, the C AMG wagon and the RS6/RS4 Avants are also bought by men in that age range.
Regardless, these cars make much more horsepower than their claimed numbers. Any German car does. The outgoing and new M5 use the same engine, albeit the new car has an updated style. It's not an evolutionary engine. You're basically looking at an engine from late 08, based off the N63 engine. Old tech. The M3 and M4 are no strangers to this either. Doesn't mean they're bad, just that they could be better. The next M3/M4 is supposed to use something called a S58 that's based off the B58 and use some cool stuff to provide more power and reliability.
I'd be curious to see the road figures once everything seats in after 3-5K miles. I suspect the times will drop a little and speed will climb. I think it's obvious which one I'd prefer to buy if both were offered in touring and not just one.
But that brown leather...
Toyota did this with Lexus for a long time, still does, but not as much. If your Camry breaks down, it's a cheap fix, cheap being relative to a German car. If your Lexus breaks down, expect to pay about 80-85% of what you would on a German car. It makes zero sense, but that's the way it is. With BMW, they ride on evolutionary development, which is a good thing.
Anyway, M5s tend to be leased out because they're going to be hooned by the owners one way or another. More people are bound to express negative feelings about their cars than positive. That said, the typical M5/E63 leaser/buyer is going to be in their mid to late 40s and above. Typical touring/wagon buyers on either car or in Europe's case, the C AMG wagon and the RS6/RS4 Avants are also bought by men in that age range.
Regardless, these cars make much more horsepower than their claimed numbers. Any German car does. The outgoing and new M5 use the same engine, albeit the new car has an updated style. It's not an evolutionary engine. You're basically looking at an engine from late 08, based off the N63 engine. Old tech. The M3 and M4 are no strangers to this either. Doesn't mean they're bad, just that they could be better. The next M3/M4 is supposed to use something called a S58 that's based off the B58 and use some cool stuff to provide more power and reliability.
I'd be curious to see the road figures once everything seats in after 3-5K miles. I suspect the times will drop a little and speed will climb. I think it's obvious which one I'd prefer to buy if both were offered in touring and not just one.
But that brown leather...
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Yeah, it does seem a little counter intuitive!
Think of it this way:
Two of the same car, both racing from 5MPH to 60, one idling long at low RPM, in the wrong gear for maximum acceleration - the other, we can just magically set to a perfect, max performance state: best gear, weight transfer has already occurred and balanced out, the engine is at optimum RPM.
I think it's easy to see the 2nd car in the example would pull away from the 1st and handily beat it to 60MPH. For S&G, let's say it does this a good 1.0-1.1 seconds quicker.
Of course, that's not how it works, the 2nd car, actually has to start from 0, but the time to go from that dead stop, to that magical, fully optimized 5MPH acceleration point takes a good amount less time than the difference it's faster. i.e., in the first scenario, if it's 1s quicker, but in the 2nd it loses 0.1s to get to that optimized 5MPH, the difference it still in its favor by 0.9 seconds (see comparison metrics
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I'd be curious to know if my Golf and a Lamborghini both had the same part, if both dealers charge the same. I doubt it!
It'd be like Skoda or Seat vehicles and your typical Passat. The former two would be cheaper to service and replace parts with. This topic comes up a lot on car sites. It's akin to asking "Why would anyone buy a Passat when they can buy an Octavia?" They never quite looked alike, but it wasn't a bad and arguably cheaper car. It's up there with people who will call an Audi a tarted up VW. While it is a semi-logical put-down, it makes no sense when you think of how many vehicles across marques share platforms and parts. I suspect theres more sharing when it comes to groups in terms of MSRP.
Fun fact, the 2nd gen Diablo used headlights from Nizzan's 300ZX. The headlights, if ordered from Nissan or an aftermarket that dealt in OEM spec headlights, cost little in comparison to what Lamborghini would have charged for a new headlight in those days. First gen R8 used plenty of Gallardo bits and pieces. VAG intended on using less in the future, but I suspect it won't be followed. It keeps costs down. The R8 and the Huracan are very close in terms of parts, execution being vastly different. If I were going that route, I'd probably pick up the Audi. There's plenty of R8s on the road here and it'd blend in. Not many Huracans.
As for your question, my memory is a bit fuzzy at the moment, but I recall reading that the VW parking sensors and whatnot are the same on a Lamborghini or Audi with a different connector or it was some radar thing.
It's not a bad thing at all. I'm for it. It keeps R&D costs down on silly stuff and lets the teams focus on the more important issues. Though some things are changed to make you buy something better if you can afford it. A great example is VAG's digital dash. It's flowed down that it'll be available in more Seats and Skodas in the coming years. It's watered down compared to a VW which is then compared to Audi's system and that from the Lamborghini system.
Though sometimes manufacturers hold back new models in the US so they don't eat away sales at their other brands. The Passat is a great example of this. North America does not get the current Passat on sale there. It's also why the Arteon won't be coming for about another year to a year and a half. Why hurt the surge in US Audi sales?
There's a lot of 20 somethings buying A4, A5 and I suppose the occasional S4. The B8 Passat (Europe's) and the Arteon look very good on the outside. Inside is dependent on taste. But the majority of these buyers don't care about cars as long as they're "pretty" and it makes sense for VAG to maximize their Audi sales when they've been on an upward tick for a few years now.
[doublepost=1518881828][/doublepost]A better example is the ZF8 transmission. There's a handful of variations of it that can handle different power amounts. Let's put that aside for a quick minute. The ZF8 can be programmed by the marques for their intended purposes. The transmission family is used in everything from a $20,000 vehicle to a $200,000 or more vehicle. There's a lot of individual computing units that are tune-able on a modern car that can transform it into something better or worse depending on your goals.
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A colleague just bought the Arteon. He put a 65" TV in the boot! That thing is massive.
The digital dash looks nice, but I'd prefer a few more physical buttons personally.
Your first example made more sense to me than this, then again I just woke up. I was somewhat curious a few years ago why some cars ran like a dog when going from 0-60 or 0-100 from a dead stop versus a launch. It never occurred to me how advanced modern day launch control was. That said, the only experience I had with launch control prior to modern versions was your own launch with a manual transmission or whatever you can do on old automatics, preferably rentals, since rentals are the fastest cars. Does the theory still apply to a rolling race?Yeah, it does seem a little counter intuitive!
Think of it this way:
Two of the same car, both racing from 5MPH to 60, one idling long at low RPM, in the wrong gear for maximum acceleration - the other, we can just magically set to a perfect, max performance state: best gear, weight transfer has already occurred and balanced out, the engine is at optimum RPM.
I think it's easy to see the 2nd car in the example would pull away from the 1st and handily beat it to 60MPH. For S&G, let's say it does this a good 1.0-1.1 seconds quicker.
Of course, that's not how it works, the 2nd car, actually has to start from 0, but the time to go from that dead stop, to that magical, fully optimized 5MPH acceleration point takes a good amount less time than the difference it's faster. i.e., in the first scenario, if it's 1s quicker, but in the 2nd it loses 0.1s to get to that optimized 5MPH, the difference it still in its favor by 0.9 seconds (see comparison metrics
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It's a very nice looking car. I'm not at all surprised. These fastbacks can carry a large load. I've seen people shove large TVs and other products in their A5s. Which are more popular than the alien ships BMW created.
Digital dashes are inevitable (for us at least), but I know what you mean when it comes to radio and HVAC. It's one of the reasons the Panamara didn't sit well with me. Give it another 20 years and toilets will have touch sensors for flushing. Otherwise, I did like it to a point.
I like being able to focus on driving at night and not look at a screen or touch sensor near my leg. I can operate 90% of the functions in my car with my eyes closed and know what I'm doing. Can't do that with these new touch systems.
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I would not be surprised if Toto has made a toilet that does just that. Kohler and Toto keep pushing the boundaries of what's possible in toilet tech, including speaker and lighting systems, massaging bidet and other silly features.
Passat == Superb
Golf == Octavia
But careful sometimes they are a different generation.
The Seat Exeo was the old Audi A4 with just the front stretched a bit to conform with newer crash regulations.
You're right. I forget the Passat was on the PQ46 and not the 35. Despite this, I usually see the argument for those two models. It was neat seeing more Skodas on the road the last time I was in Europe. Very different than when I was a young boy. No one bought a Skoda unless they were desperate for a car.
Just placed an order on a S5. Should be here in June.
I like the new A5 Sportback (in S5 trim). Other than the design which isn't terrible by any stretch but not the most exciting, the other thing I don't like about Audi is their lack of customization from paint colour to leather and trim. I would appreciate Audi a lot more if you could customize it a lot more (see: Mercedes and BMW).
But congrats with the purchase! It's going to be an excruciating wait!
But congrats with the purchase! It's going to be an excruciating wait!
Nice color scheme choice! Someone was talking about ordering an S5 a few weeks ago. Actually, you can customize a lot with Audi. You just pay extra and need a physical order sheet. The online configurator won't show you much. AU once showed me the most hideous Q7 with a custom interior done in cream and bright red, I think it was. BMW has some nice individual stuff. MBZ offers Designo paint and leather in a variety of colors. With that S5, I'd have gone with the wood that has the exposed grain. Maybe with a tint matte lacquer.
That new M5 would look fantastic in Dakkar Yellow, for example. BMW does offer a custom yellow reminiscent of a school bus. I suppose you could use that as an excuse if you're pulled over....
That new M5 would look fantastic in Dakkar Yellow, for example. BMW does offer a custom yellow reminiscent of a school bus. I suppose you could use that as an excuse if you're pulled over....
I know you can do individual options through Audi Exclusive, but by customization, I meant regular build. If you look at the trims, I think there are only 2 (maybe 3?!) options? Aluminum, carbon fibre and maybe wood. The leather is only limited to red and then various black/grey in either leather or Alcantara. To me, that leaves a very dull look to a car that could look amazing without having to spend money for an Audi Exclusive build.
I think you'll have trouble finding any configurator that does that. Even the Porsche one is limited compared to the real order sheets. In any case, I do understand your frustration. I don't have a lot of choice for my next car unless I go with the individual Designos. On the other hand, I have a thing for brown leather, and it's offered. So there's that to be excited over.