I agree, but just to clarify, it's only the Matrix LEDs that can deactivate areas of light output, so the Reflector LEDs can't do this.
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The Car Thread ... !
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I agree, but just to clarify, it's only the Matrix LEDs that can deactivate areas of light output, so the Reflector LEDs can't do this.
Not true anymore. They just have a stricter than Euro standards for Matrix functionality (as I understand it). The new TMY, and 2nd Gen Rivians come with true Matrix functionality on.
Not a stricter, a more prescriptive one. It includes performance-based testing against the U.S. specific test conditions. Range Rover / Porsche etc had it since about 2010.
Europe UNECE Reg. No. 123 first in 2006:
• More aggressively tuned for high-beam usage.
• Prioritizes pedestrian visibility and rural driving conditions.
• Greater use of precision-masked high beams, resulting in near-daylight visibility with zero glare.
United States FMVSS 108 Amended in 2022:
• Initial implementations (e.g., by Audi, Mercedes, Toyota) are conservative.
• Beam shaping might be less precise or less aggressive due to:
• Regulatory caution.
• Conservative interpretation of safety margins.
That was pre-2022, it is alowed since then, but for whatever reason they've chosen not to take a proven UNECE system but do their own thing...Hence there isn't really much takeup yet.
My understanding, and I could be wrong, it is the reaction speed in the US standard is stricter than Europe's reaction speed.
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Supposedly all Tesla's with matrix headlight hardware will get it enabled in the US. Though it isn't clear if they will do it in waves or all at once.
This is correct. If it’s just one LED bulb, there’s not much it can do.
I know they’re not new but their newish to the USA. What car and what country do you live in? I know Europe has had them for at least 10 years. Tesla has had the capability to do it in their cars, but they just got approval in the USA recently. They’ve been doing it in Europe.Ahem that isn't newI've had those for the last 10 years...
Actually, Tesla hasn't been doing it in Europe. Their LED's are horrible and not even close compared to the intelligent lighting systems of like Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Porsche, and one of the best there is Volvo/Polestar. The multi car tracking is mesmerising when you are on long swooping bends.
That would not be stricter, that would just be at a different speed. 🤣
Perhaps they deem American eyes slower to react? I have no idea why they would do that. It would then be like the earlier versions we have enjoyed in the past, where it can become rather abrupt and doesn't feel/experience as luxurious or sophisticated. Seeing the lights smoothly and sophisticated adjust to the circumstances is great. Never ever had anyone flash me that my car was blinding them.
Still find it weird how they wanted to invent their version.
As far as I know. Tesla has turned on Matrix in UK/Europe/...
2021 Model 3 Performance headlights test
EDIT: Wrong video, will update with the correct one when I find it. I remember him doing a video once it was released.
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Stricter by definition means the vehicle has less time to react. Hypothetically, if the regulation says something must react in 1 second, and another says 0.5, by definition 0.5 would be a stricter regulation.
Yeah...well the first first is still 2021 and looks like what other manufacturers had in 2010. The second for the model Y is better, but is only 8 months ago, and for a Tesla is good, but compared to the rest of the market just not on par.
Nope, that would just mean that one regulation is at 1 second and the other is at 0.5. That doesn't mean one is stricter; if it was the same rule then yes, but they aren't the same rules. That is the point.
You’re misunderstanding. If you have been on regulation 1 and now need to support regulation 2, you likely need to overhaul your design because it requires a faster reaction. It’s basically back to the drawing board. That’s what they were saying
No, it is a different specification, where previously none existed. Your point would be valid if the original UNECE 123 changed its parameters, AND gave at the reason to make it stricter. But that is not the case, this is a entirely different regulation where none existed before. The previous regulation in that jurisdiction explicitly forbid the use of such lights. So against such regulations if you like to make a tenuous argument it would actually be looser. 🤣🤷♂️
News article from 2021. I know not everyone keeps up with this kind of stuff so not surprising you didn’t know.
I have seen a lot of reports indicating that the full Tesla Matrix functionality is actually a more elegant implementation than many others. But I have no personal experience to confirm. This was from research I was doing last year when it went live for Europe. Reports indicate that the area shut off over vehicles was tighter (more LEDs in the array).
But as I said, I can’t confirm nor deny these findings.
EDIT: Also, I read something that the newer highland and juniper matrix LEDs have less LEDs in the matrix array vs the pre-Highland/Juniper which allows for a faster reaction time (to meet the stricter standard). But this takes away from the ability to turn off a tighter area (more light left on).
But as I said, I can’t confirm nor deny these findings.
EDIT: Also, I read something that the newer highland and juniper matrix LEDs have less LEDs in the matrix array vs the pre-Highland/Juniper which allows for a faster reaction time (to meet the stricter standard). But this takes away from the ability to turn off a tighter area (more light left on).
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To clarify, many car brands have been doing this for years in Europe. BMW supported it starting in 2016. Porsche’s new headlights are basically the equivalent of an image sensor but for projecting light. The level of resolution it has allows it to like, print and indicate on the road what lane to be in for the nav.
Performance leap in light technology
The new high-resolution Porsche LED main headlights with HD matrix beam offer a high-resolution light distribution up to twice as bright than previous systems.
It’s good that Tesla is now including technologies by this, but especially on headlights, they’re far from a leader. It’s more than sufficient though.
Mercedes and Audi are even able to like print text like “welcome” in a garage and stuff. Of course, Audi is also Porsche, but insanely wild stuff we’ll never see stateside:
ð audi headlight projection - Google Search
www.google.com
To clarify, many car brands have been doing this for years in Europe. BMW supported it starting in 2016. Porsche’s new headlights are basically the equivalent of an image sensor but for projecting light. The level of resolution it has allows it to like, print and indicate on the road what lane to be in for the nav.
Performance leap in light technology
The new high-resolution Porsche LED main headlights with HD matrix beam offer a high-resolution light distribution up to twice as bright than previous systems.newsroom.porsche.com
It’s good that Tesla is now including technologies by this, but especially on headlights, they’re far from a leader. It’s more than sufficient though.
Mercedes and Audi are even able to like print text like “welcome” in a garage and stuff. Of course, Audi is also Porsche, but insanely wild stuff we’ll never see stateside:
ð audi headlight projection - Google Search
www.google.com
I do not now the lines of resolution on the Tesla Matrix, but the older style were considered high resolution which can illuminate words, and would be capable of many of the “higher end” capabilities. The newer are considered low resolution. But since Tesla does not release the details, it is hard to quantify.
Teslas with high resolution (like what I retrofitted) have been displaying “T E S L A” in light show mode. As I understand it, Highlands and Junipers are not capable of displaying words. Also, a note, the projectors have been in the cars since 2019ish, the feature was just turned on though.
That’s pretty cool! Admittedly, I don’t know much about Tesla’s.
To be honest, once I saw a man parading his AutoPilot as a near future not needing drivers in the same sentence as “no lidar,” I stopped paying attention. I see those as any oxymoron and trying to be penny wise and pound foolish. I don’t know why you would not want Lidar on your system to validate distances perceived by your camera, especially knowing some of the fatalities that could have been prevented by such a system. Apparently he’s repeated that stance in the last week too. It feels like you’d only do it as a part of an obsession of cost savings.
I don’t want to go on my anti-Tesla rant, but I genuinely am glad so many people like the product. Our company has two of them and my coworkers love to mention it. One doesn’t know we don’t have the dual motor and tells me how much faster it is than my car.
Tesla VP Confirms Adaptive Headlights Coming to All Models Soon – “The Hard Part is Over”
Tesla Execs provide an update on Adapative Matrix Headlights for the United States - rolling out with the Refreshed Model Y soon, and coming to more vehicles.
www.notateslaapp.com
Well, my understanding is that Tesla’s CEO argued that since humans can drive without LiDAR, then surely optical cameras and software should be able to handle it. The second part of course being the high cost LiDAR sensors, especially years ago when Tesla decided to double down on cameras.
Maybe that approach would have had more merit if Tesla had reached 100% autonomous driving capabilities long ago (many projected dates come and gone). But given alll the time that has elapsed without accomplishing full autonomy, LiDAR has become much more affordable and smaller scale.
The Volvo EX90 LiDAR costs about $1000 (yet still unfortunately reminds me of the roof lights on a NYC taxi). Now BYD is saying they have a $400 sensor. Such sensors cost tens of thousands not long ago.Further developments and economies of scale will probably bring costs down further.
The optical-only Tesla system is incredibly impressive. But it seems only reasonable to add LiDAR to augment the cameras. The debate has always been presented as an either-or, but considering the costs are progressively dropping, why not take advantage of the strengths of each system by using both? It’s not like errors can be horrendously consequential in self driving cars? Typically redundancy using input types is desired for such important tasks.
Maybe it’s a cost cutting obsession (granted Tesla has included plenty of stupid features over the years that contradict. Maybe it’s an intellectual challenge to figure out. Maybe it’s an ego thing- perhaps he underestimated the trajectory of LiDAR development and so his ego won’t let him admit his prediction / bet was wrong. Who knows. Either Tesla will develop true, mainstream autonomous driving or someone else will.
But I would not be surprised if LiDAR quietly finds its way into Teslas in the future.
But I have to ask, with such a reliance on cameras and knowing how moderns car’s camera-based safety systems are affected by precipitation/inclement weather, how will Tesla Robotaxis operate in heavy rain, moderate fog, a decent amount of snow (esp at night). Tesla FSD doesn’t work. Neither does Subaru’s comparatively simple safety suite. You know, much of the world doesn’t experience SoCal weather year round.
My suspicion: the Tesla Robotaxis will either end up using LiDAR or the Robotaxi remains nothing more but a mythical concept vehicle, much like the Roadster 2. Whether or not Tesla will the leader in future robotransport remains to been.