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None of it is cost. It's all design ideology. That's why there aren't power leads off of the PSU.  doesn't think you should be touching the PSU.

If you're installing GPUs or CPUs aftermarket, you're already not in 's target market.

Do they expect you to be thrilled with the lack of options? No. Do they care? Not so much.

In all honesty, as much as I would like more flexibility, I'm more interested in them getting the next release of Final Cut done, and that it is as improved as I think it should be (4x-8x faster on the same hardware).

Most Mac Pro owners will have similar priorities. And they are, as a group, more interested in living with limitations than the forumgoers.
 
None of it is cost. It's all design ideology. That's why there aren't power leads off of the PSU.
[...]
Do they expect you to be thrilled with the lack of options? No. Do they care? Not so much.

I don't think a product can be successfully marketed this way. This was the Mac prior to the iMac in 1998--a cheap, sleek, fast mac which alone turned Apple around. The mac prior to that looked better than PCs but lagged behind in features and price point. Apple should know better than to sacrifice all advantages it has for looks, particularly in the machine the "grown ups" use.
 
Obviously I have had a sip or two of the apple kool-aid (I did buy a Mac Pro) but here's my experience with my 2009 (i know it was a redesign, so your mileage may vary):

Hard Drives: Incredibly Easy up to 4. Best case I've ever used.

CD Rom: Easy, but not as easy as hard drives. Still easier than any other case I've done.

Ram: Incredibly Easy. The tray slides out and I can reach all along the top of the chip and the clips at both ends. I'm not trying to move power cables out of the way or contort my wrist around fans to unseat old ram.

CPU: I haven't touched. I've heard they're difficult because you have to secure them with the screws for the heat sink and you can destroy them if you over tighten. CPU swaps have always scared me because a screw up can be dire.

Graphics Card: the GT 120 was extremely easy. The 5870 was a bit more difficult because it barely fit between the PCIE fans and the back of the tower. Also, it was hard to see if the card was aligned with the slot because the card was so honking big, I'll blame the card and the case equally but I don't know other cases would have been much easier.

WiFi card: PAIN IN THE @$$. Why is this so hard?

Bluetooth: See WiFi card.

Power Supply: See bluetooth card.

Daughter Board: Easy except for the CPU install.

Mother Board: Holy Cow, I wish I was just replacing the WiFi card. Worse than a PC case, but even with a PC case you're stripping the case down to nothing to do this.

Panel removal is easiest (no screws at all).

I've never cut myself on a sharp metal edge. (big plus if you're hands are in cases all day long).

The three most common reasons I've ever opened a case are (in order) Hard Drives, Ram, Graphics. 2 of the 3 are definitely easier than any PC case I've used, and the 3rd is a tie at worst.

Also, remember this is a workstation, not a server. I don't expect it to have hot swappable power supplies and raid arrays. It isn't supposed to. That's like complaining that a greyhound bus is slower than a Pagani Zonda (or that the Zonda doesn't carry as many people as the bus). They're designed with different purposes, so you're going to get different results.

Complaints:
-See Power Supply.
-Lack of USB ports. What isn't USB these days? It has 5, but the 2 on the front are useless for anything permanent. Not because It is ugly to have cords coming out of the front, but because it is dangerous. I fried a motherboard one time when I hit a USB device on the front of the machine. The port broke loose, shorted to ground, and that was the end of the mother board. That leaves 3. -1 for keyboard. -1 for mouse. -1 for phone charger. Now you're out. At least the USB keyboard has 2 usb ports on it.

I have some other complaints, but they are about Apple and Hardware support; nothing to do with the case:
-Lack of support for graphics cards
-Lack of support for processors (there is no reason the 2010 firmware can't work with the 2009 and then I could use westmere processors, but Noooo!!!)
-Lack of PCI slots is annoying. I still have 2 free, but would prefer to have more spaces so I could spread the cards out. I feel like it cools better, but that's probably just my imagination. I'm not even using video capture or audio cards. I have 1 graphics card, 1
-Inability to add more fans (but that could increase noise)

Given all of that, I can still say that the Mac Pro case is the best case I've ever owned or used.

To make a long story short (too late):
Given the choice windows or mac?
If mac, then your choices are iMac, mini, Mac Book, MB Pro, or MB Air.
Which would you rather open up?
 
I don't think a product can be successfully marketed this way. This was the Mac prior to the iMac in 1998--a cheap, sleek, fast mac which alone turned Apple around. The mac prior to that looked better than PCs but lagged behind in features and price point. Apple should know better than to sacrifice all advantages it has for looks, particularly in the machine the "grown ups" use.

Since when does  market the Mac Pro aside from an entry on the web page and sending review units to (very few) publications?

By their standards, they don't market it. Even the updates are published quietly without a press release, event, or any kind of notification.

Everybody who needs to know about it finds it. They don't push the boundaries of computing; they just cram preselected hardware in a configuration they deem sufficient for high-end OS X usage and expandability sufficient to cover the pro apps.
 
If you're installing GPUs or CPUs aftermarket, you're already not in 's target market.

Bingo! Have a winner! I definitely agree with CPU, but I don't consider a GT120 to be a workstation class graphics card, perhaps even the 5770, if more is needed.

WiFi card: PAIN IN THE @$$. Why is this so hard?

Wireless in a real workstation is rather limiting and probably only for very specific reasons why someone would want one. Obviously a wired connection is much more preferred for faster speeds, the reason why the wireless card is only an option.

Lack of USB ports. What isn't USB these days?

Don't see this as that much as a problem as a powered usb hub is so cheap and easy to setup. If using it as a means of transfer like external hard drive it eventually not going to be enough bandwidth anyway with additional multiple ports.

Lack of PCI slots is annoying

I could see a few more PCI slots being needed.
 
G3

Been repairing PCs for years from the big guys and have yet to find anything as simple as what apple started with the blue and white G3 In 1999. at least for diagnosing problems.
 
IMO the Mac Pro case is perfect for the typical Mac user.

Mac Pro users: Use Computers to get work done fast and with few problems.

PC users: Like to play arms deep with wires and brag about blue LED's/games.

So.. for the typical PC user the case is not ideal, but for me..i just want to get work done. I'm not interested in upgrading anything other than RAM, Drives, and possibly the GPU.
 
Bingo! Have a winner! I definitely agree with CPU, but I don't consider a GT120 to be a workstation class graphics card, perhaps even the 5770, if more is needed.
I am somewhat cross that Apple is sticking a mandatory 5770 in these machines. Some (many) workstation applications do not require any GPU beyond displaying the OS. Some even less than that (headless). The Mac Pro needs a positively bare-bones stock card (the GT120 was perfect). With a reasonably priced upgrade to various more powerful options offered BTO and through the Apple Store as an upgrade (5770 1GB, 5870 2GB, 6970 2GB? I'm just dreaming here…). That way the scientific computing, server, encoders, render farms, and so forth don't need to pay the premium on the 5770 for no reason. The people who do need GPU grunt can spec it easily, or upgrade to it.

Wireless in a real workstation is rather limiting and probably only for very specific reasons why someone would want one. Obviously a wired connection is much more preferred for faster speeds, the reason why the wireless card is only an option.
True, although the 2010 Mac Pro features wifi as standard now.


I like the Mac Pro's case. It is an Apple take on the workstation layout. Simplified, but still fairly powerful. Apple is slow to adopt I/O technologies (SATA 6Gbps, USB3, eSATA). That is the primary disadvantage I can see in the Mac Pro, which has nothing to do with the case design. My major complaint is the sharp edges on the handles… why can't they round them? I'm sick of wearing gloves to move Mac Pros around, less they cut my hands.
 
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It also uses custom fans (a peeve of mine), a crappy PSU (have had problems with smelliness and failure), and hides 2 of the damn SATA ports (?? WHY?!).
A lot of people don't have problems with the PSU, most of them are fine. In the pc world you have the same thing: some will complain that the PSU is a piece of crap, others are happy with it. The sata ports in the 2009/2010 Mac Pro models are easily reachable unlike my Sun Blade 100.

The custom fans however are quite a problem, especially when you want to replace them when the machine is, say, 5 yrs old (it would be nice if getting spare parts is as easy as getting a new Mac). It doesn't make sense to use custom fans, there is not much you can gain in this area.

I also hate the fact that some PCIe cards don't fit or are like 1 micron away from the bottom compartment/wind tunnel--impeding air flow and limiting card selection.
That seems to be a problem with hardware manufacturers in general. Some do it just a little bit different causing things to not fit in some computers. It is annoying as hell :mad: I don't think it does affect airflow all that much (a small gap isn't going to do magic on the airflow so closing will not make the machine/component a lot hotter). I think this is nitpicking.

Edit: oh yeah, and it's proprietary as hell--can't replace the mobo except with another Apple mobo...and it takes a life-age of man to do it.
Just like IBM, Dell, HP, Sun/Oracle, NEC and many others. The Mac Pro and similar machines from competitors are all proprietary custom build machines with the option to upgrade parts of it (mem, disk, videocard, PCIe expansion, cpu) but not everything. These kind of machines will come with a special service contract which the Mac Pro doesn't (AppleCare is not even remotely close to such contracts). That is the Mac Pro's biggest minus.

Edit2: and it's not that sturdy! I've had cheap PC cases dent less when dropped/impaled.
Good point!, dropping cases is something we do daily!1!11!!! </sarcasm>
The machine as a whole is as sturdy as other similar workstations. The plating is a bit thicker (about 3 mm) but that's it.

oooooh now you're talkin.
Well it's comforting to know Apple's still ignoring me after all these years.
It's even more comforting to know that the competition is doing the exact same thing. Hot swappable sata drives is something that is more useful on a server than on a workstation. Which is why not every workstation will have it. There are still even some operating systems that simply do not support hot swapping. FreeBSD is one of them (they still use the old style /dev so you need to scan an initialise manually) which makes zraid (part of zfs) less easy. If you want hot swappable drives you need the hardware and the software support for it.

I've never cut myself on a sharp metal edge. (big plus if you're hands are in cases all day long).
The same goes for a lot of other cases. You need to watch out for the cheap ones, they're made of tin or something (you can cut yourself really easily with that material).

Complaints:
-Lack of USB ports. What isn't USB these days? It has 5, but the 2 on the front are useless for anything permanent.
The only thing I really dislike about the Mac Pro's hardware. I bought a PCIe USB card to resolve it but I shouldn't have had to. Installing the card is really easy with the Mac Pro.

-Lack of support for graphics cards
-Lack of support for processors (there is no reason the 2010 firmware can't work with the 2009 and then I could use westmere processors, but Noooo!!!)
I think those 2 boil down to something more general: there isn't that much 3rd party components you can use without problems in Macs. In the current iMacs you need to watch out when using a 3rd party ssd, with the Mac Pro it's the videocards and cpu's. I wish Apple would offer more videocard options and made it easier to buy something like the processor tray. Other manufacturers sell such replacement parts.
 
found a used G5 case, did some Mods and bam, Hack Pro

G5inside.jpg

G5case.jpg


for those that want to know
Gigabyte GA-X58-USB
Intel i7-950
12 GB DDR3 1600 Memory
ATI Radeon 5870HD
 
Uh, is the hard drive actually mounted, or just sliding around on the bottom? It looks crooked. :)

I took those pics when I was still test fitting and checking, its now in an external eSata case, it's my data drive. I boot from a SSD drive that is in the top of the case. thats my old video card too.
 
It's interesting... the tone of this thread is very different from similar ones from late 2009 early 2010 where very few people here had anything good to say about the Mac Pro. Good to see. :)

Anyway, I've long maintained that the Mac Pro case is far superior to any other desktop or workstation chassis available at any price. Elements like SATA back plane connections, the integrated PCIe GPU power on the mainboard, CPU tray, flow through cooling, and even the PCIe card retention mechanism, are all examples of design features seldom found in other cases. The design makes for a very clean interior with essentially no need for cable management, allowing for a better performance to noise ratio from the air cooling system.

It's also a dream to work with in terms of common upgrades... memory, HD, and PCIe cards. Even upgrading the CPU on these systems seems straight-forward (assuming you're not going from a naked CPU to one with a heat sink).

As someone who's worked on a lot of PC's over the last 20 years, I really appreciate the design and attention to detail in the Mac Pro chassis.
 
IMO the Mac Pro case is perfect for the typical Mac user.

Well the question really is: why does a "typical mac user" not care about upgrading his/her machine?

Having just a little bit of know-how will save hundreds if not thousands of dollars in upgrading instead of just tossing out the computer every few years.

The reason Mac users don't know how to upgrade their macs, even with this--the PRO machine--is because the type of people who expect longevity from their machines don't buy one. So when you refer to the "typical Mac User" wanting or not wanting this or that, you're talking about a market which has already been isolated to people who are okay with the current restrictions (or why would they buy one??)
 
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I am somewhat cross that Apple is sticking a mandatory 5770 in these machines. Some (many) workstation applications do not require any GPU beyond displaying the OS. Some even less than that (headless). The Mac Pro needs a positively bare-bones stock card (the GT120 was perfect). With a reasonably priced upgrade to various more powerful options offered BTO and through the Apple Store as an upgrade (5770 1GB, 5870 2GB, 6970 2GB? I'm just dreaming here…). That way the scientific computing, server, encoders, render farms, and so forth don't need to pay the premium on the 5770 for no reason. The people who do need GPU grunt can spec it easily, or upgrade to it.

Well, in keeping with his post, he said anyone who felt the need to replace a CPU & Graphic card it was not the intended targeted market. But the market is also for video rendering / graphics, CAD ect. So it would not make it a workstation class graphics card for that intended use.
 
The closest I could find was the Thermaltake Level 10, which was $800 at the time. (The price has fallen to $650-$700.)
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/thermaltake_level_10
I still like the way the ThermalTake Level 10 looks. If it ever falls under $400, I'd consider one.

take a look at the Level 10 GT.....
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1416&ID=2039
279.00 from Thermaltake. A little to much plastic on it but otherwise not a bad case design.
 
I am somewhat cross that Apple is sticking a mandatory 5770 in these machines. Some (many) workstation applications do not require any GPU beyond displaying the OS. Some even less than that (headless). The Mac Pro needs a positively bare-bones stock card (the GT120 was perfect). With a reasonably priced upgrade to various more powerful options offered BTO and through the Apple Store as an upgrade (5770 1GB, 5870 2GB, 6970 2GB? I'm just dreaming here…). That way the scientific computing, server, encoders, render farms, and so forth don't need to pay the premium on the 5770 for no reason. The people who do need GPU grunt can spec it easily, or upgrade to it.

you saying you have a good deal on a 5770 then? :)
 
well the question really is: Why does a "typical mac user" not care about upgrading his/her machine?

Having just a little bit of know-how will save hundreds if not thousands of dollars in upgrading instead of just tossing out the computer every few years.

The reason mac users don't know how to upgrade their macs, even with this--the pro machine--is because the type of people who expect longevity from their machines don't buy one. So when you refer to the "typical mac user" wanting or not wanting this or that, you're talking about a market which has already been isolated to people who are okay with the current restrictions (or why would they buy one??)

omg!
 
I took those pics when I was still test fitting and checking, its now in an external eSata case, it's my data drive. I boot from a SSD drive that is in the top of the case. thats my old video card too.

How about a rear picture? I'd love to see how the slots and I/O connectors look. That is usually the "bad" area on G5-to-PC conversions.
 
Well the question really is: why does a "typical mac user" not care about upgrading his/her machine?

Having just a little bit of know-how will save hundreds if not thousands of dollars in upgrading instead of just tossing out the computer every few years.

The reason Mac users don't know how to upgrade their macs, even with this--the PRO machine--is because the type of people who expect longevity from their machines don't buy one. So when you refer to the "typical Mac User" wanting or not wanting this or that, you're talking about a market which has already been isolated to people who are okay with the current restrictions (or why would they buy one??)

I think it's become clear that you're completely forgetting what has been Apple's target market for years: they want to sell you disposable gadgets that get replaced every three or so years. As such, Apple deems that the level of attention they give to their prosumer/professional products is sufficient enough to cover the market segment; as in products that can run their in-house pro apps efficiently while offering somewhat competitive technology, as TheStrudel has already pointed out.

The enthusiast/modder market is not appealing to Apple's business strategy. Bleeding edge expansion isn't profitable. Selling you a new computer is. Consumer computer manufacturers already know that you're probably not going to buy upgrades directly from them anyway.

The point is that nobody held a gun to your head and told you buy a Mac. Outside of OS preference and the few platform-specific applications (like Final Cut), you can do it all on a Windows PC just fine. I bought a Mac Pro fully knowing this. I wanted a reasonably expandable machine that legitimately ran OS X and Final Cut Studio. For me, the Mac Pro fills that void admirably. Will I buy a workstation-class Mac again? Well, that all depends.

If you really stop and think about it, "enthusiast" Macs died over 10 years ago (the PowerMac 9600 was really the last of that breed and it was ungodly expensive for 1998). The iMac and iPod saved Apple. Make no mistake.
 
The Mac Pro case is an absolute design classic.
I`ve still to see a PC case I like anywhere near as much, the fact they haven`t really changed the basic design since the G5 speaks volumes.
 
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