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nasmdhgf

macrumors member
Jan 23, 2023
64
29
You seem to have a very "this is the way" tone for your support of OpenGL. I'm not even sure you're aware that you're coming off that way.

Let's shift gears maybe and talk about Vulkan, as it's open source, just like OpenGL. Vulkan may not be as mature as OpenGL, but they're both designed to solve similar problems, without anyone having to pay licensing fees, right?

Please, convince me that Vulkan should not be allowed to mature over time via versioning similarly to how OpenGL has. And won't they get there faster with yours and other diehard supporters of OpenGL than without it?
For your question, first of all, you have a big misunderstanding about the difference between Vulkan and opengl. Vulkan is open source. Yes, they have opened the underlying implementation code. But is opengl open source? No, please don't mislead. Although opengl has the word "open", it doesn't open the bottom layer. Because the bottom layer is the responsibility of the graphics card driver, it is the business of the graphics card manufacturer, and they are not willing to open it. You just call their encapsulated API upper interface, and you don't know the specific implementation method at all. So it is not open source.
At present, mainstream APIs do not require licensing fees. I don't know why you use this example?
Vulkan will mature, but not now. Now it is very bad. Many games in my country have been fed back by fans. They suddenly crashed after using Vulkan rendering mode. Fast speed does not mean it is very useful. It ignores another very critical problem, which is stability, which is available in opengl but lacking in vulkan.
I am not an iron fan of opengl, but if I need to cross-platform my game, I will choose opengl instead of Vulkan (otherwise I will only use DX12). In addition to its poor stability, Vulkan also has a bad problem: complexity, high learning cost and low development efficiency. Few people will spend several years developing an engine. The problem of time cannot be ignored for the sake of efficiency.
In my country, many game companies have been waiting for a long time. When they finally obtained the release license, their companies went bankrupt. It makes no sense at all.
 
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diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,455
2,685
OBX
For your question, first of all, you have a big misunderstanding about the difference between Vulkan and opengl. Vulkan is open source. Yes, they have opened the underlying implementation code. But is opengl open source? No, please don't mislead. Although opengl has the word "open", it doesn't open the bottom layer. Because the bottom layer is the responsibility of the graphics card driver, it is the business of the graphics card manufacturer, and they are not willing to open it. You just call their encapsulated API upper interface, and you don't know the specific implementation method at all. So it is not open source.
At present, mainstream APIs do not require licensing fees. I don't know why you use this example?
Vulkan will mature, but not now. Now it is very bad. Many games in my country have been fed back by fans. They suddenly crashed after using Vulkan rendering mode. Fast speed does not mean it is very useful. It ignores another very critical problem, which is stability, which is available in opengl but lacking in vulkan.
I am not an iron fan of opengl, but if I need to cross-platform my game, I will choose opengl instead of Vulkan (otherwise I will only use DX12). In addition to its poor stability, Vulkan also has a bad problem: complexity, high learning cost and low development efficiency. Few people will spend several years developing an engine. The problem of time cannot be ignored for the sake of efficiency.
In my country, many game companies have been waiting for a long time. When they finally obtained the release license, their companies went bankrupt. It makes no sense at all.
You don't feel like you are missing out on newer features by using openGL over Vulkan?
 

nasmdhgf

macrumors member
Jan 23, 2023
64
29
You don't feel like you are missing out on newer features by using openGL over Vulkan?
What are the new features of VK? Oh~~~I see. You mean its ability to reduce CPU load through multithreaded rendering?
However, this feature is not applicable to me, because the game I created is mainly 2D, and the requirements for graphics rendering and calculation are not high (because the number of triangles rendered in 2D is much less than that of a human model).
If it is a 3D game, its plot is also described in the UI interface, and there is no need to ride through a mountain like Red Dead Redemption 2.
The battle scene is carried out in a very narrow room or in a small valley.
It is not a large-scale war picture at the movie level of The Lord of the Rings or The Mummy.
Therefore, it is unnecessary for me to use Vulkan. I don't value its multithreading.
 
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diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,455
2,685
OBX
What are the new features of VK? Oh~~~I see. You mean its ability to reduce CPU load through multithreaded rendering?
However, this feature is not applicable to me, because the game I created is mainly 2D, and the requirements for graphics rendering and calculation are not high (because the number of triangles rendered in 2D is much less than that of a human model).
If it is a 3D game, its plot is also described in the UI interface, and there is no need to ride through a mountain like Red Dead Redemption 2.
The battle scene is carried out in a very narrow room or in a small valley.
It is not a large-scale war picture at the movie level of The Lord of the Rings or The Mummy.
Therefore, it is unnecessary for me to use Vulkan. I don't value its multithreading.
Yeah OGL is more than adequate when dealing with 2d games.
 

Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
3,449
859
What are the new features of VK? Oh~~~I see. You mean its ability to reduce CPU load through multithreaded rendering?
However, this feature is not applicable to me, because the game I created is mainly 2D, and the requirements for graphics rendering and calculation are not high (because the number of triangles rendered in 2D is much less than that of a human model).
If it is a 3D game, its plot is also described in the UI interface, and there is no need to ride through a mountain like Red Dead Redemption 2.
The battle scene is carried out in a very narrow room or in a small valley.
It is not a large-scale war picture at the movie level of The Lord of the Rings or The Mummy.
Therefore, it is unnecessary for me to use Vulkan. I don't value its multithreading.

Well, it sounds like you’ve made up your own mind, then.

One last question, because unlike you (and ethosik and GrumpyCoder), I am not a programmer, so I have to defer to those who are. How do you pick a graphics API without picking a game engine?
 

nasmdhgf

macrumors member
Jan 23, 2023
64
29
Well, it sounds like you’ve made up your own mind, then.

One last question, because unlike you (and ethosik and GrumpyCoder), I am not a programmer, so I have to defer to those who are. How do you pick a graphics API without picking a game engine?
If you can't write core programs, you can choose unity or ue5. They have convenient codeless tools (blueprints) that can automatically create commands for you. Switching the renderer API is also very simple, just click the mouse.
If it's me, I need to build the engine from scratch. Of course, it certainly won't have powerful components and editors like unity and UE.
I write the engine so that I can master everything, including how the underlying is optimized.
If it is the engine dominated by other companies, when their companies fail,
You may not be able to activate this engine again. For example, Unity is online.
There are many personal engines on GITHUB. If you are interested, you can try them.
 
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abell2454

macrumors newbie
Mar 10, 2023
11
9
My post is directed to the OP. I feel somewhat bright about the future of Mac gaming. Resident Evil Village being released for Mac is a step in the right direction but there are still opportunities for growth. For instance, why wasn’t Hogwarts Legacy released for Mac on its original release date? Now, Mac users will have to wait to play this game natively (installing the game without using third-party software) if it’s even released for Mac at all.
Apple Arcade is nice but doesn’t go far enough. There need to be AAA games for Mac. As Macs are becoming more and more powerful, users will want to test the capabilities of their computers. Hopefully, game developers and Apple will take note.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
why wasn’t Hogwarts Legacy released for Mac
Did they announce that the game was to be released on the mac?

I think so many people assume that AAA games will automatically come to the Mac when many publishers don't announce or have any plans. Cities:Skylines II was just announced and it won't have a Mac version (even though the original CS I has a mac version). The publisher is purported to say they no longer have a Mac team to develop the game.
 

abell2454

macrumors newbie
Mar 10, 2023
11
9
Did they announce that the game was to be released on the mac?

I think so many people assume that AAA games will automatically come to the Mac when many publishers don't announce or have any plans. Cities:Skylines II was just announced and it won't have a Mac version (even though the original CS I has a mac version). The publisher is purported to say they no longer have a Mac team to develop the game.
There was never an announcement that this game was going to be released for Mac but I already know this. My point was couldn’t they have had a team to develop a version for Mac? Maybe this is something that will come later in time.
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,471
17,287
Silicon Valley, CA
Note the D4 video from zackrawrr above ran 11 hours, the first beta allowed the earliest testers to play the entire ACT 1. It did adequately reflect how different the game is such as using skill tree to select how you progress as a Barb.
 

davidg4781

macrumors 68030
Oct 28, 2006
2,883
423
Alice, TX
Zero Lego games (standard play ones, not the Brawl or whatever) are playable natively on AS Macs. Once I see that happen, I think we'll be going in the right direction.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,455
2,685
OBX
Oh yeah, that one, too.

I loved playing Lego Indiana Jones and Star Wars. Those are the types of Lego games I’m wanting.
Pretty sure that version of Lego is Apple Silicon native. Granted it isn't the "typical" Lego game, but it does show there is at least 1.
 

Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
8,107
Heeeeere we go!


So...where were you when Mac Gaming finally stopped being a joke?


The results are astounding. The fact Spider-Man Remastered, Hogwarts Legacy, and Cyberpunk work out of the box means great things are ahead

I hope someone can take the code from Apple's github and make a Proton like compatibility layer with this so we can get almost every game working immediately.
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,471
17,287
Silicon Valley, CA
So...where were you when Mac Gaming finally stopped being a joke?


The results are astounding. The fact Spider-Man Remastered, Hogwarts Legacy, and Cyberpunk work out of the box means great things are ahead

I hope someone can take the code from Apple's github and make a Proton like compatibility layer with this so we can get almost every game working immediately.
That is interesting, didn't expect Apple to focus on supporting DirectX 12 so soon.

Whoopi Goldberg got even blizzard attention about this.

Using its XCode 15 Command Line Tools to play DirectX12 games like Diablo IV on Silicon based Macs (as opposed to Intel based ones) running the latest releases of the Sonoma and Ventura operating systems. A step-by-step guide by Senior C# Developer and former Microsoft Development Engineer Denis Gladkikh, aka Outcoldman, details how to set up Rosetta 2 and the Game Porting Toolkit needed to run Intel-based games that are primarily built for Windows systems on Apple Silicon instead. Although the amount of command line manipulation looks daunting, the guide is fairly straightforward and easy to follow, showing the game running on a very high end 16" M2 Max MacBook Pro 2023.
 
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Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,471
17,287
Silicon Valley, CA
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Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
8,107
That is interesting, didn't expect Apple to focus on supporting DirectX 12 so soon.

Whoopi Goldberg got even blizzard attention about this.

Poor Whoopi is getting flak for saying Diablo 4 should be playable on Mac too


(Lead writer for TomsGuide FYI, and closeted console warrer)

Seems not everyone is thrilled about the idea of Macs being able to play games again.
 
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