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I may be missing something on the Intel web site but as far as I can tell the lowest TDP offered for quad core processors is 47W. The current max TDP on the 2014 Minis is 28W. The 2012 2.3gHz i7 quad was 45W but I don't see Apple going back to higher TDPs on the Mini...I would love to be wrong on that. I also don't see the trend to everything soldered to the board reversing...again, would love to be wrong, but there is nothing at all going on at Apple to encourage that hope.

Hard to say. We already know that the current Unibody design can (should be able to) handle 47w TDP chips. But as I think we concluded, it will come down to Apple deciding that there are enough quad core mini buyers and it fits in their goals. FWIW worth, the new quad core chips should consume less power at idle than their predecessors, even with the CrystalWell eDRAM.
 
Actually pleasing a lot more people with the Mac mini would be easy if Apple adds a quad core option. Could be bto. Could be priced a way that makes sense to Apple also from a margin perspective compared to the iMac.

And a early update is not to much to ask for.

I think so as I am one of the ones that would be pleased by such - but I wouldn't be surprised if most users didn't quite care honestly. I mean, I use a dual-core now anyway and I am just wanting this for the future. My next desktop will be quad core - just hoping I can stick with Mac without spending a minimum of 3k.

Guess you didn't read my post fully. They do not do decisions based off what will sell well all the time even in reality the items to sell. It leaves a lot of us confused such as, why didn't apple make the screen bigger or add nfc or this or that. but as i stated some of the board members may have personal relations with say "western digital" and WD needs to dump there old dinosaur hard drives out to raise stock

I did, but perhaps I just misunderstood. Sorry about that. I understand what you mean now.

I may be missing something on the Intel web site but as far as I can tell the lowest TDP offered for quad core processors is 47W. The current max TDP on the 2014 Minis is 28W. The 2012 2.3gHz i7 quad was 45W but I don't see Apple going back to higher TDPs on the Mini...I would love to be wrong on that. I also don't see the trend to everything soldered to the board reversing...again, would love to be wrong, but there is nothing at all going on at Apple to encourage that hope.

I'd like it if you were wrong too!

I really don't mind the soldering as much but limiting the machine in terms of BTO options is depressing.
 
Right now there are two real options for the Mac Mini, go smaller, with something like CoreM, or stay the same or similar form factor and continue being an option with a reasonable amount of power.

Plus Apple's renewed partnership with AMD could mean the Mac Mini yet again having a dedicated GPU option, though, perhaps only on the highest end model.
 
Most folks are not geeks with an inclination to tinker. We (as I am among them) want something that just works. Apple are more interested in satisfying most folks than pandering to geeks.
The solution I'd expect from Apple would be to make upgrades easy and (nearly) foolproof instead of preventing them. Screwless mounting of internal drives sliding right into the required ports. Access to Ram slots by simply opening a dead-easy bayonet locking mechanism. Oh wait ...

The reason I switched to Apple instead of Windows when I eventually had to abandon the Amiga, was that it simply worked, but still left some elegant ways to upgrade the machine when needed (think of e.g. the machine core with a handle in the Cube, the drive trays and practically cable-free interior of PowerMac/Mac Pro or the simple turning baseplate on the minis from 2010 through 2012).

I also want a machine to simply work, but at the same time I like to upgrade every now and then. And I expect a premium brand such as Apple to find elegant solutions to that for their premium-priced products and especially not to _remove_ existing solutions (like the mini baseplate) without at least trying to communicate that change properly. And no, I don't feel a single slide with a rushed 1-minute-"oh by the way we updated the mini you can read the new specs on the slide behind me"-poor-excuse-of-a-presentation as anywhere even remotely adequate! :mad:

As for the soldered RAM - [...] driving down power consumption, at idle and under load, is one of Apple's ongoing goals. [...] And it was the power saving that drove the decision to switch, not a desire to screw over Mini Buyers.
And why did that switch require to redesign the baseplate and make it unnecessarily more difficult to get into the machine? That surely did cost time and money for engineering hours and changing production tools. And for what? People who don't upgrade, wouldn't bother to look inside the machine anyway. And those who do, would understand if they wouldn't see a Ram socket after opening the baseplate.

But most of all: If the switch was really motivated by power-saving reasons (personally I rather believe that the Mac mini dev team has to swallow whatever the Macbook dev team decides) - why can't Apple communicate that properly either on stage or at least via Website/tech blogs etc.?

The 2014 1.4Ghz Model was [...] not about deliberatly downgrading the Mini line. [...] The few people I know at Apple [have] implied, without specifics, that Apple's current generation of computers were impacted by Intel's schedule and production problems with 14nm/Broadwell.

I chose to take that to mean that what Apple's done with the 2014 Mac Minis was not about downgrading it's potential, but making the best of what was actually available CPU wise.
To me that doesn't explain why they ceased to produce the quad-core from 2012 instead of offering it in parallel to the redesigned 2014 model. They did so more than once in the past, e.g. during the Retina transition of the MBP's or with various education iMacs. They could've easily done it again for the mini to help lessen the claimed impact of Intels production/schedule problems.

Sorry, but I don't buy the story of the poor Apple guys being helpless victims of evil Intel's production and schedule problems, but heroically going to great lengths to make the customer experience still as good as humanly possible under the given conditions. :confused: Admitted, the final decision was probably made by some higher-level manager at Apple (perhaps even Phil Schiller himself) and not the actual engineers, but still ...

Just to make it clear: This is NOT against you being only the messenger!
 
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Hard to say. We already know that the current Unibody design can (should be able to) handle 47w TDP chips. But as I think we concluded, it will come down to Apple deciding that there are enough quad core mini buyers and it fits in their goals. FWIW worth, the new quad core chips should consume less power at idle than their predecessors, even with the CrystalWell eDRAM.

Yes to all, and you have to factor in Apple's penchant for feeling that in some cases they need to lead buyers rather than respond to buyer wishes (re-reading your post, I think that comes under "fits in their goals").
 
Just redid my setup and wanted to share. Don't let this versatile little machine not fulfill its potential, Apple! What computer do you know that can exist on a setup in such a unique way? It's barely even like it's there, which is an amazing feature for my cheap, small, particle board desk. It's a lamp stand ... and a computer! I have a small room and a small desk, so this is essentially the perfect computer for my situation.

macminisetup1.JPG

This is some of what I'm referring to in this thread. You can't do this with an iMac or even a Mac Pro. It's the perfect desktop as far as I'm concerned. I originally had it on a shelf but decided today that I wanted that shelf space for other things. It can be moved almost anywhere, mounted almost anywhere if you're creative. I turned mine to the side so I can push it up against the wall and maximize space. The back of the monitor and the monitor arm (removed the stand) act as outposts for cable management.

macminisetup2.JPG

Such a wonderful computer. Not sure how I am going to manage with anything else if I do have to look elsewhere in the future due to lack of quad-core options. I'm really hoping the Mini is made whole again!
 
Judging how lenovo keeps releasing variations of i7 on the m93p, i think its more complicated.

i7-4765 (2ghz)> i7-4785 (2.2ghz) which is similar clocks to the 2011 mac mini i7 bto
 
This makes sense in its own right, and I have a similar thought only with weaker Core M CPUs. What makes you think they will go as low as ARM architecture?

Because Apple hates being beholden to third parties for their product refresh cycles. Its the reason Apple left the PPC and its been reported many times Apple's displeasure with Intel's delays in product releases, such as the most recent macbook refreshes.
However, since power likely wont be a concern, they could very well opt for Core M. could go either way. But going ARM would make it easier to maintain since there would effectively be only one architecture to code for across the entire product lineup.
 
2. Apple wanted to move to BGA packaging (non-socketed) for their Haswell laptops, and it made sense to Apple to move the Mini along to those as well. However the Mini's could have used the HQ parts (4 core / BGA packaging) that the 15" MBP's migrated to, instead of the U part used in the MBA.

Apple hasnt sold a socketed CPU laptop since the Pismos in 2000. The only devices in Apple's lineup that have used sockets in the last 6 years are the pros and imacs. Minis have had soldered CPUs since 2009.
 
Apple can go a lot of ways with the Mac Mini, since it is a versatile little machine. If they make some slight modifications, Apple could actually make a blade enclosure, with Minis being the computer blades, with just power and Thunderbolt hooked up to the enclosure (which would handle video, networking, SAN access, etc.)

I can see enterprises buying this, especially if it legally allowed them to have OS X as VDI machines, in a dense form factor.

Another possibility would be to do similar to the older Mac Mini models, and offer the ability to have two internal drives, which would allow for RAID 1, and some use as a server without requiring external drives.

Of course, quad cores and a better GPU go without saying, but that has been covered extremely well in previous posts.
 
Apple hasnt sold a socketed CPU laptop since the Pismos in 2000. The only devices in Apple's lineup that have used sockets in the last 6 years are the pros and imacs. Minis have had soldered CPUs since 2009.
The "socketed" LGA CPUs I referenced are soldered to the motherboard, but they still have a pin array that can be alternatively installed in a traditional "socket". There are even desktop motherboards that use the respective socket with mobile CPUs (i.e. no soldering). Most laptops using an LGA CPU (i.e. with a pin array) are soldered to the motherboard rather than using a traditional "socket".

As I indicated in my previous post, Intel is phasing out the LGA socket packaging (i.e. pins) for its mobile CPUs and is using only BGA packaging (which needs to be soldered because there are no pins).

I understand you were attempting to be accurate, which is important in a technical discussion like this, but it really misses the point which was the two lines were using the same CPU, and the Mini could have continued to use the same CPU as the 15" MBP (i.e. quad).
 
Nobody has said anything about glossy screens. I hate glossy screens so much that I will never buy (for instance) an iMac. I use a late 2012 Mac Mini as my main desktop computer (a)because it's so small that I can tuck it away under a tower of paper trays, but mainly because (b) I can use my own monitor, which is not glossy. As for performance: I didn't even know it had a fan! I never hear it. I work hard with this computer, all day, including Photoshop and other stuff, and I am having no problems or holdup at all (apart from the HDMI output signal, which gives very poor results when hooked up to my Sony TV - no sound and washed-out colours -but for me this is not a biggie since I hardly ever use HDMI)

My other option is a 13" MacBookPro dating from 2009, running in clamshell mode and powering the same monitor, external keyboard, and mouse. But the MBP is noisier than the MM, and runs hot ever since I upgraded the HD and RAM. So for daily use, the MM is my main computer.

Bottom line: glossy screen = no Mac.
 
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Go into any Apple store and look at the amount of floor space given up to Macs compared to iPads, iPhones, Apple watch, etc. Then from that minuscule amount of space taken up by Macs, look at how much is occupied by the mini and the Mac Pro. They might at a push have a single Mini and a single Pro, or they might just have some information on an iPad about them - i.e. they don't have one in store. This should tell you everything you need to know about Apple's priorities towards desktop computers.

Let's see what the next versions of Macs are like when skylake is released. If they are cut down even more than it is now then personally it's time for me to start looking at another platform. Great OS and ecosystem, but very limited hardware choices when compared to Dell and HP. I would also expect them to upgrade the nMP by the end of the year too, if not this platform is not for me any longer and when it comes time to replace my hardware I'll be looking else where.
 
Nobody has said anything about glossy screens. I hate glossy screens so much that I will never buy (for instance) an iMac. I use a late 2012 Mac Mini as my main desktop computer (a)because it's so small that I can tuck it away under a tower of paper trays, but mainly because (b) I can use my own monitor, which is not glossy. As for performance: I didn't even know it had a fan! I never hear it. I work hard with this computer, all day, including Photoshop and other stuff, and I am having no problems or holdup at all (apart from the HDMI output signal, which gives very poor results when hooked up to my Sony TV - no sound and washed-out colours -but for me this is not a biggie since I hardly ever use HDMI)

My other option is a 13" MacBookPro dating from 2009, running in clamshell mode and powering the same monitor, external keyboard, and mouse. But the MBP is noisier than the MM, and runs hot ever since I upgraded the HD and RAM. So for daily use, the MM is my main computer.

Bottom line: glossy screen = no Mac.

Absolutely. The lack of choice and arrogance about that lack of choice winds me up.
 
Nobody has said anything about glossy screens. I hate glossy screens so much that I will never buy (for instance) an iMac. I use a late 2012 Mac Mini as my main desktop computer (a)because it's so small that I can tuck it away under a tower of paper trays, but mainly because (b) I can use my own monitor, which is not glossy. As for performance: I didn't even know it had a fan! I never hear it. I work hard with this computer, all day, including Photoshop and other stuff, and I am having no problems or holdup at all (apart from the HDMI output signal, which gives very poor results when hooked up to my Sony TV - no sound and washed-out colours -but for me this is not a biggie since I hardly ever use HDMI)

My other option is a 13" MacBookPro dating from 2009, running in clamshell mode and powering the same monitor, external keyboard, and mouse. But the MBP is noisier than the MM, and runs hot ever since I upgraded the HD and RAM. So for daily use, the MM is my main computer.

Bottom line: glossy screen = no Mac.
Actually, if you've tried the iMacs or the rMBPs with IPS displays, you'll find that it's not that reflective after all. Reflections have been cut down greatly compared to the 2011 iMacs and the non-retina MBPs. Granted, it's not exactly matte but it's a massive improvement over the original glossy displays.

If the Mac Mini had the specs of a 15" rMBP complete with dGPU and all, I would have gone for it in a hurry, but since there isn't one that can match the power of an iMac, I went the iMac route (and nMP route) instead to complement my rMBPs.
 
What the hell Apple? My choices for a new Mac desktop are an underpowered Mac Mini with no quad core and lacking IGPU.

An AIO iMac with mechanical HD and overheating retina display problems.

An overpowered dual GPU 3k outdated trashcan.

Fill the hole Apple for a headless Mac.
 
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What the hell Apple? My choices for a new Mac desktop are an underpowered Mac Mini with no quad core and lacking IGPU.

An AIO iMac with mechanical HD and overheating retina display problems.

An overpowered dual GPU 3k outdated trashcan.

Fill the hole Apple for a headless Mac.


I don't think anyone is listening, that's the issue I have with Apple. This approach works okay for consumer products, but i you want kit for work it's limiting. I have a 2013 rMBP that I want to replace next year at the end of the Apple Care period, or when I can get a laptop that supports 32GB (for my mobile VM lab). I have an M4800, but it's not that portable.

I also have a nMP and while it will do for another couple of years, but if I'm forced to go down the Windows route for my laptop, then I'll sell all my Apple hardware and go back to Windows for everything. It's a pain in the ... mixing windows and os x on the various machines I have. The nMP is a very nice, quiet machine but it's too easy to hit the limits on performance. Might as well just get a HP Z workstation instead.
 
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What the hell Apple? My choices for a new Mac desktop are an underpowered Mac Mini with no quad core and lacking IGPU.

An AIO iMac with mechanical HD and overheating retina display problems.

An overpowered dual GPU 3k outdated trashcan.

Fill the hole Apple for a headless Mac.
You do know that you can BTO the iMac with a pure SSD option, and I've yet to encounter overheating retina displays (aside from certain M295X units).

And the nMP isn't overpowered - it's made for people who do resource-heavy stuff like 4K cinematography, running a bare-metal hypervisor, et cetera. And it isn't outdated - the Ivy Bridge-EP can last for a really long time. Besides, the jump from Ivy Bridge-EP to Haswell-EP isn't much anyway in terms of performance.
 
What the hell Apple? My choices for a new Mac desktop are an underpowered Mac Mini with no quad core and lacking IGPU.

An AIO iMac with mechanical HD and overheating retina display problems.

An overpowered dual GPU 3k outdated trashcan.

Fill the hole Apple for a headless Mac.

Apple has stopped catering for the 'Pro-sumer'....

Maybe Apple should create the Mac Nano, basically a Macbook Retina inside a small box, and then make the Mac Mini into a beefier computer again (Quad Core, Discrete graphics, upgradable ram etc).

In Australia, the iMac has become expensive.. You used to pay $1349 for a iMac with a decent CPU and GPU with a 7200RPM HD, and that you could upgrade to some extent. Now you've got to pay $2099 for a machine with a decent CPU and discrete GPU and you're still stuck with a laptop 5400RPM drive... $2379 for a Fusion drive. Thus the Mac Mini becomes a much better option economically, but they've made the Mac Mini so stripped back that it puts the techie person on a budget into trouble.
 
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...As for performance: I didn't even know it had a fan! I never hear it. I work hard with this computer, all day, including Photoshop and other stuff, and I am having no problems or holdup at all (apart from the HDMI output signal, which gives very poor results when hooked up to my Sony TV - no sound and washed-out colours -but for me this is not a biggie since I hardly ever use HDMI)
...

Say Tom, both of those issues can be solved. I never encountered your "washed-out colours" problem but the HDMI sound problem only required some fiddling with a built-in OS X utility program. You could search or start a thread to get suggestions for your video issue.

Take a look at this audio fix posted by zeron89. It is the last post on Page 2 of the Apple forum. With this method, the Audio Midi Setup utility enables you to create an “Aggregate Device” that supplies sound simultaneously to the HDMP output and the built-in speaker port.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2586101?start=15&tstart=0


Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: You know, I'm a rather brilliant surgeon. Perhaps I can help you with that hump.
Igor: What hump?
 
i could see it being split into a desktop model and a stream only device, with limited built in storage (ala AppleTV, iPad, iPhone, MacBooks) where it will be a primarily a device that will sync or stream from your iCloud account...nothing will be stored locally other than OS and some software.
It could turn into a combo appletv/stream desktop hybrid if they wanted to clean it up and all that. There potential for a lot there.
 
I don't think anyone is listening, that's the issue I have with Apple. This approach works okay for consumer products, but i you want kit for work it's limiting. I have a 2013 rMBP that I want to replace next year at the end of the Apple Care period, or when I can get a laptop that supports 32GB (for my mobile VM lab). I have an M4800, but it's not that portable.

I also have a nMP and while it will do for another couple of years if I'm forced to go down the Windows route for my laptop, then I'll sell all my Apple hardware and go back to Windows for everything. It's a pain in the ... mixing windows and os x on the various machines I have. The nMP is a very nice, quiet machine but it's too easy to hit the limits on performance. Might as well just get a HP Z workstation instead.


I guess the only one listening is the moderator that censored my rant. No 1st amendment rights here?

The Mac Pro is a nice machine but way more capable then most of us need.

Just want my quad core Mini with a decent IGPU with my choice of displays.

I guess I best leave this thread before I get ban for saying the wrong thing on MR.
 
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What the hell Apple? My choices for a new Mac desktop are an underpowered Mac Mini with no quad core and lacking IGPU.

An AIO iMac with mechanical HD and overheating retina display problems.

An overpowered dual GPU 3k outdated trashcan.

Fill the hole Apple for a headless Mac.

I agree with you. I basically reflected exactly this in an earlier post in this thread. While a cheaper, new baseline Mini has been brought to light that could handle some users needs - the second and stock configuration options are just too closely related. It creates a huge gap in the offerings for a traditional desktop computer. It's a shame in my opinion. I don't care for iMac (or AIO in general) and I don't care for overpaying based on my needs for a Mac Pro, but with that said I suppose it's fair to mention that Apple doesn't specifically care about me.

i could see it being split into a desktop model and a stream only device, with limited built in storage (ala AppleTV, iPad, iPhone, MacBooks) where it will be a primarily a device that will sync or stream from your iCloud account...nothing will be stored locally other than OS and some software.
It could turn into a combo appletv/stream desktop hybrid if they wanted to clean it up and all that. There potential for a lot there.

Not discrediting your ideas at all, but this would be a shame in my opinion. I wouldn't like to see the Mini downgraded in a sense to basically becoming an entirely different device when it is a fully capable machine that is just being limited. There is room inside its chassis for two physical drives - there is little need to go this route in my opinion. It makes a great desktop without having to merge it with another product line.
 
I guess the only one listening is the moderator that censored my rant. No 1st amendment rights here?

The Mac Pro is a nice machine but way more capable then most of us need.

Just want my quad core Mini with a decent IGPU with my choice of displays.

I guess I best leave this thread before I get ban for saying the wrong thing on MR.

The nMP isn't actually that high-spec. A decent core i7 PC with a high-end gaming GPU will kick it's ass in most tasks. what you are paying for is the design and how it manages to stay utterly quiet even when pushed. I like the nMP, but in my opinion it doesn't scale far enough for the workstation market. The current nMP should have just been the 'Mac', and the Mac Pro should have been in a much larger case to allow for expansion. This goes against Apple's design philosophy however despite this being what a lot of customers are actually wanting.
 
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You do know that you can BTO the iMac with a pure SSD option, and I've yet to encounter overheating retina displays (aside from certain M295X units).

And the nMP isn't overpowered - it's made for people who do resource-heavy stuff like 4K cinematography, running a bare-metal hypervisor, et cetera. And it isn't outdated - the Ivy Bridge-EP can last for a really long time. Besides, the jump from Ivy Bridge-EP to Haswell-EP isn't much anyway in terms of performance.


Agreed, the nMP definitely isn't overpowered. I've got the 6-Core with D700's and it's just a 'nice' machine. The GPU performance is nothing special and there are none of the apps I use currently take advantage of the second GPU. I feel that even if I went for the 12-core I'd be paying a LOT more for not a lot of extra performance. For me it represents a very small machine that can have 64GB RAM. If however I needed high CPU performance I'd probably go for a HP Z workstation instead. They are more expensive, but scale much higher.
 
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