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The Metaphysics of Movie Ownership
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The Metaphysics of Movie Ownership
Part III But if you do.....
The last time I moved house, about five years ago, I came across a box full of Syquest EZ 135 cartridges. Which immediately brought back a flood of memories. Unfortunately, they weren't the digital memories stored on the cartridges (mainly old spreadsheets, a couple of complete backups for a long-discarded computer system, and the sort of pitiful 320x240 photos I snapped with my Apple QuickTake 100) - it was the memory of the anger and frustration I'd felt when both the Syquest drive and my Mac Performa had failed in the space of a couple of weeks back in 1999.
Its a cautionary tale. And one anyone investing a lot of time, money, or sentiment in building a home-based movie collection ought to keep in mind. There are three lessons here:
1) Hardware fails. A consumer-grade NAS has a MTBF ("Mean time Between Failure") rating of 500,000 hours, or about fifty-seven years. So you should be able to count on watching your rip of Saving Private Ryan on June 6, 2044, right? Not so fast. Those MTBF ratings are the average - and certainly not a guarantee. Plus, there are all the other things that can go wrong: fires, theft, floods, earthquakes, tornados.
2) Formats become obsolete. This is the biggest threat. I don't need to remind most readers of the list of obsolete media formats. If not, I've got a stack of 8-Track cassettes and LaserDisc movies you can have real cheap. The MP4 format didn't exist fifteen years ago when I was busy backing up my files to my Syquest cassettes. Want to take a bet we'll be using a completely different format come 2020?
3) Even if you can access the Media, is it really worth it? When I was a kid, I thought the battle sequences in Patton were awesome. Nowadays, I look at them and laugh at the (Spanish Army) M60 tanks pretending to Pz.Kpfw. IVs. Over time our expectations for effects, costumes, dialog and sound change. Our tastes change too. Seinfeld, for instance, was once part of my Thursday night ritual. Nowadays, it seems sorta "Meh."
I used the term "Metaphysics" in this thread because I wanted to think about the fundamental nature of a movie collection's existence. If you've got a copy of The Towering Inferno on a LaserDisc or Beta cassette, and no hardware to play it, does it really exist? I'd argue that the answer to that question is: No it doesn't. You've got a plastic shell and some magnetic tape, an archeological artifact, but thats about it.
There is a coda to my story about the Syquest cassettes. On one of them was a folder containing some scans of photos I'd taken of my brother and I at the 1997 Packers/Patriots SuperBowl in New Orleans. Literally irreplaceable images of a once-in-lifetime event. The physical color snapshots themselves have now faded into a yellowish haze, and obviously the Syquest gifs were long gone. But back in 2000, I was an early-adopter of a new service from (then Internet high-flier) Yahoo! I uploaded the images from one of the 3.5" diskettes (another obsolete format) I'd salvaged from my dying Performa to Yahoo! Photos.
The photos lived on, unblemished by the passage of years. They were moved to Flickr when Yahoo acquired that company. And they are still up there today, accessible to my brother and his family, including a daughter who literally didn't exist when they were taken, and who wonders why the young fellow with all the hair looks a bit like her Dad.
The Cloud is the future my friends, especially if you want to hold on to the past.
Part III But if you do.....
The last time I moved house, about five years ago, I came across a box full of Syquest EZ 135 cartridges. Which immediately brought back a flood of memories. Unfortunately, they weren't the digital memories stored on the cartridges (mainly old spreadsheets, a couple of complete backups for a long-discarded computer system, and the sort of pitiful 320x240 photos I snapped with my Apple QuickTake 100) - it was the memory of the anger and frustration I'd felt when both the Syquest drive and my Mac Performa had failed in the space of a couple of weeks back in 1999.
Its a cautionary tale. And one anyone investing a lot of time, money, or sentiment in building a home-based movie collection ought to keep in mind. There are three lessons here:
1) Hardware fails. A consumer-grade NAS has a MTBF ("Mean time Between Failure") rating of 500,000 hours, or about fifty-seven years. So you should be able to count on watching your rip of Saving Private Ryan on June 6, 2044, right? Not so fast. Those MTBF ratings are the average - and certainly not a guarantee. Plus, there are all the other things that can go wrong: fires, theft, floods, earthquakes, tornados.
2) Formats become obsolete. This is the biggest threat. I don't need to remind most readers of the list of obsolete media formats. If not, I've got a stack of 8-Track cassettes and LaserDisc movies you can have real cheap. The MP4 format didn't exist fifteen years ago when I was busy backing up my files to my Syquest cassettes. Want to take a bet we'll be using a completely different format come 2020?
3) Even if you can access the Media, is it really worth it? When I was a kid, I thought the battle sequences in Patton were awesome. Nowadays, I look at them and laugh at the (Spanish Army) M60 tanks pretending to Pz.Kpfw. IVs. Over time our expectations for effects, costumes, dialog and sound change. Our tastes change too. Seinfeld, for instance, was once part of my Thursday night ritual. Nowadays, it seems sorta "Meh."
I used the term "Metaphysics" in this thread because I wanted to think about the fundamental nature of a movie collection's existence. If you've got a copy of The Towering Inferno on a LaserDisc or Beta cassette, and no hardware to play it, does it really exist? I'd argue that the answer to that question is: No it doesn't. You've got a plastic shell and some magnetic tape, an archeological artifact, but thats about it.
There is a coda to my story about the Syquest cassettes. On one of them was a folder containing some scans of photos I'd taken of my brother and I at the 1997 Packers/Patriots SuperBowl in New Orleans. Literally irreplaceable images of a once-in-lifetime event. The physical color snapshots themselves have now faded into a yellowish haze, and obviously the Syquest gifs were long gone. But back in 2000, I was an early-adopter of a new service from (then Internet high-flier) Yahoo! I uploaded the images from one of the 3.5" diskettes (another obsolete format) I'd salvaged from my dying Performa to Yahoo! Photos.
The photos lived on, unblemished by the passage of years. They were moved to Flickr when Yahoo acquired that company. And they are still up there today, accessible to my brother and his family, including a daughter who literally didn't exist when they were taken, and who wonders why the young fellow with all the hair looks a bit like her Dad.
The Cloud is the future my friends, especially if you want to hold on to the past.
For the ages
With the advent of 4K on the horizon I can see where in time a lot of libraries in BlueRay might begin to seem kind of dated. Particularly for the aficionado, although compared to what some once put up with in adjusting rabbit ears to get a decent enough picture to see when their favorite movie finally aired on network television (with commercials), 1080p at your leisure seems spectacular. We may be at the point of diminishing returns in some of this. An audio buff I know insists on nothing but the finest, and can apparently hear the difference, but a lot of people are fairly content with the compressed quality of music from iTunes.
So part of this equation really does come down to personal preference. In whether one will only watch a movie once, or really will watch favorites intermittently throughout the years. Knowing that in advance, and one's preferences, would well inform which options one would be happiest with.
In this life there may be nothing permanent, but with digital media there is at least the argument to be made that if carefully stored, with redundancy, that a fair chance of preserving it. A far better chance than with film stock or even DVDs. Perhaps the best solution, if really serious, would be to separate one's eggs with backup both at home and also in the cloud. Apple seems to be heading in the direction where this could be feasible and easy. But in reading threads such as this one could be excused in thinking that ripping media and otherwise compiling libraries is an everyday matter of course, until considering the broader world in which they live where many have little more expertise or desire than how to buy and view a DVD, and maybe BlueRay. Streaming is probably only beginning to enter the greater consciousness as a real possibility, when most may consider all options confined to what cable has to offer.
So while the cloud might be the future, not yet fully here. As an ideal it is great, with anything and everything one might want at the touch of a button without any of the expense and difficulties of personal ownership and storage. That that isn't a fully formed reality yet doesn't mean it will not be.
However the saying 'a bird in hand' is apt here. What technology provides it can take away as easily, which applies not only to hardware but services as well. If you have some media truly treasured in hand and carefully stored then likely as long as the concept of forever will matter to you. The same cannot be exactly said for corporate providers with their shifting allegiances and business models. Presumably their interest will align with customers in wishing to preserve their access to desired media. Although even now there seems a contradiction between companies such as Apple who are keen on cloud services, as opposed to many ISPs who are short-sighted enough to prefer a parsimonious distribution of data throughput to their customers. Beyond that, in the realm of movies and Hollywood there are many films you are not seeing as never made as they might be, because what was supposedly merely an advisory rating policy now means the upper end of expression is tailored for no more than an 'R' rating, just so it may be shown at all and commercially viable. There is nothing to say that in future shifting morals in society will look unfavorably upon certain media you once assumed would always be freely available. If maybe small, there is a risk with what you do not absolutely personally control.
All of which may be academic to those who only wish to consume the latest offering and be done with it, moving on to the next. In light of old age youth and its desire for novelty can be refreshing. If tempered at times in knowing that some things are classics for a reason.
With the advent of 4K on the horizon I can see where in time a lot of libraries in BlueRay might begin to seem kind of dated. Particularly for the aficionado, although compared to what some once put up with in adjusting rabbit ears to get a decent enough picture to see when their favorite movie finally aired on network television (with commercials), 1080p at your leisure seems spectacular. We may be at the point of diminishing returns in some of this. An audio buff I know insists on nothing but the finest, and can apparently hear the difference, but a lot of people are fairly content with the compressed quality of music from iTunes.
So part of this equation really does come down to personal preference. In whether one will only watch a movie once, or really will watch favorites intermittently throughout the years. Knowing that in advance, and one's preferences, would well inform which options one would be happiest with.
In this life there may be nothing permanent, but with digital media there is at least the argument to be made that if carefully stored, with redundancy, that a fair chance of preserving it. A far better chance than with film stock or even DVDs. Perhaps the best solution, if really serious, would be to separate one's eggs with backup both at home and also in the cloud. Apple seems to be heading in the direction where this could be feasible and easy. But in reading threads such as this one could be excused in thinking that ripping media and otherwise compiling libraries is an everyday matter of course, until considering the broader world in which they live where many have little more expertise or desire than how to buy and view a DVD, and maybe BlueRay. Streaming is probably only beginning to enter the greater consciousness as a real possibility, when most may consider all options confined to what cable has to offer.
So while the cloud might be the future, not yet fully here. As an ideal it is great, with anything and everything one might want at the touch of a button without any of the expense and difficulties of personal ownership and storage. That that isn't a fully formed reality yet doesn't mean it will not be.
However the saying 'a bird in hand' is apt here. What technology provides it can take away as easily, which applies not only to hardware but services as well. If you have some media truly treasured in hand and carefully stored then likely as long as the concept of forever will matter to you. The same cannot be exactly said for corporate providers with their shifting allegiances and business models. Presumably their interest will align with customers in wishing to preserve their access to desired media. Although even now there seems a contradiction between companies such as Apple who are keen on cloud services, as opposed to many ISPs who are short-sighted enough to prefer a parsimonious distribution of data throughput to their customers. Beyond that, in the realm of movies and Hollywood there are many films you are not seeing as never made as they might be, because what was supposedly merely an advisory rating policy now means the upper end of expression is tailored for no more than an 'R' rating, just so it may be shown at all and commercially viable. There is nothing to say that in future shifting morals in society will look unfavorably upon certain media you once assumed would always be freely available. If maybe small, there is a risk with what you do not absolutely personally control.
All of which may be academic to those who only wish to consume the latest offering and be done with it, moving on to the next. In light of old age youth and its desire for novelty can be refreshing. If tempered at times in knowing that some things are classics for a reason.
It's an Old Debate. When DVD came about in 1997 or so, I bought everything, I ended up with a Library of about 1200 disks. The reality of which you speak hit me shortly thereafter and I did not repeat it with Blu ray, I buy only movies Now I know I'll watch more than once. The Star Wars, James Bonds etc.. and I've stoppe buying movies when they are first released I wait now until I can get them for $10 or less, that is my paying price for movies and that happens usually after a couple of months of release.
I still buy too many TV on DVD releases, and most wind up transferred to Apple TV format for easier viewing, and viewing on my Ipad, Ipod's etc. But what you are saying is happenning there too. Why should I rip Seven Seasons of Every Trek Series when they are on Netflix? More and More of that will happen.
I still buy too many TV on DVD releases, and most wind up transferred to Apple TV format for easier viewing, and viewing on my Ipad, Ipod's etc. But what you are saying is happenning there too. Why should I rip Seven Seasons of Every Trek Series when they are on Netflix? More and More of that will happen.
ahead of the curve?
GREAT thread ... Never thought a discussion essentially about movies could spur such thoughtful and eloquent prose. Does my thread started more than 3 years ago make me a prophet? Ever since writing this, I haven't looked back, and only drop in on this forum every so often. "Free at last!"
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/481301/
GREAT thread ... Never thought a discussion essentially about movies could spur such thoughtful and eloquent prose. Does my thread started more than 3 years ago make me a prophet? Ever since writing this, I haven't looked back, and only drop in on this forum every so often. "Free at last!"
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/481301/
The only movies that I buy are Blu-Ray, and only the ones that I really love (and even then, only if they approach movie ticket price, the exception being box sets.)
The problem I have with Netflix is that the streaming selection is poor and it's not Blu-Ray. $7.99 for a poor selection wasn't worth it; $9.99 for streaming plus a DVD was just right. But then they killed that plan, so I unsubscribed. I have prime, so I live with their (admittedly poor) streaming selection. Which I am fine with because I spend more of my entertainment time playing games anyway.
Maybe in 20 years when we have enough bandwidth to stream at Blu-Ray-quality, owning movies will seem less desirable. But for me, I think it will always be a combination--the best quality for the few movies I love and bought cheap (streaming will always be behind physical media in this regard, I think, at least for a very long time), and streaming for everything else.
The problem I have with Netflix is that the streaming selection is poor and it's not Blu-Ray. $7.99 for a poor selection wasn't worth it; $9.99 for streaming plus a DVD was just right. But then they killed that plan, so I unsubscribed. I have prime, so I live with their (admittedly poor) streaming selection. Which I am fine with because I spend more of my entertainment time playing games anyway.
Maybe in 20 years when we have enough bandwidth to stream at Blu-Ray-quality, owning movies will seem less desirable. But for me, I think it will always be a combination--the best quality for the few movies I love and bought cheap (streaming will always be behind physical media in this regard, I think, at least for a very long time), and streaming for everything else.
I think this is a little narrow minded. You're practically dismissing all of the old classics because their effects don't match up to what can be achieved with current technology. You don't think that there are thousands of films from the past 100 years or so that still are still relevant and watchable even though technologically inferior?
I agree that the cloud is very much a part of the future. But I stress the word "part." You still need to address the issue of needing a constant and reliable network connection at all times to completely build your media library on the cloud. Also, with the cloud, you're completely left at the mercy of the content providers.
I wasn't really planning on doing a Part IV, but you bring up a couple of points I'd like to address, as well as give some background.
First, I'd like to say categorically that I'm a big believer in older movies. I think everyone who loves cinema owes it to himself to watch The Battleship Potemkin and Monsieur Hulot's Holiday; My Darling Clementine and Citizen Kane; His Girl Friday and Rebel without A Cause. (And in fact I think on-demand cloud-based services will actually enable people to watch movies like this much easier. Good luck finding these classics at a Red Box or your local Best Buy.)
The point I was trying to make is the reality that some movies don't seem to hold up well over time. A movie that seems beloved by critics and the public one year, a decade or so later can seem dull and dated. When was the last time you felt a burning desire to see Kramer Vs. Kramer or The Color Purple? If you'd paid a lot of money to acquire these when they first became available (on VHS in those cases) - thirty years later you'd have a hard time explaining to your kids what the big deal was about. Some movies go on to become timeless classics. A lot don't.
Secondly, I make these observations after about a year of of watching Netflix and iTunes content via my AppleTV. This is the future for watching "back catalog" movies. I'm also making this assessment after experiencing the first week's of Apple's other big foray: iCloud. I've been blown away not only at how smoothly and seamlessly Apple's servers have handled literally tens of gigabytes of my material - as well as that of probably millions of other iTunes subscribers.
I cannot say with certainty that either Netflix or Apple will necessarily be the dominant players in their respective industries. Netflix especially seems to have made some mis-steps of late. But make no mistake, someone will find a way to make a massive volume of film and television content available for streaming over the Internet.
People speak with pride about having a DVD or ripped collection of 1100 or so movies. Netflix collection of streaming content alone is more than ten times that. Apple has roughly the same amount. (There is some crossover, which must be a tough sell for Apple.) Apple's main appeal is offering new content, usually available within six months of release. I understand, and can live with, the pricing model in both cases.
The question of availability of a reliable internet connection, and moreover one that can deliver a sufficiently robust data stream, is a valid one. All I can say is that in the year or so I've been streaming movies, I've had very few problems. I can say that, in that same time, I've encountered numerous DVD's that arrived cracked in the mail. And I can recall many instances when Blockbuster didn't have the DVD we wanted to rent. No system can guarantee 100% uptime.
On a larger scale, however, I am convinced that the economic realities are such that the vast majority of the population of the US, Europe, and urban Asia will continue to see the level of Internet infrastructure investment necessary to make Cloud-access to this type of entertainment not only possible - but in fact the norm. Once you've built the pipe, the costs of maintenance are minor compared to the rents you can collect on it.
Lastly, as much as a fan of cloud-based entertainment as I've become, I also never see the role of either broadcast or cable/satellite going away completely. There will continue to be a large enough audience for live TV, as well as the broad-appeal fare such as American Idol or Sunday afternoon football.
Thanks again to everyone who read my thoughts on this topic. Thanks especially to those of you who commented. Best wishes, and happy movie watching!
That's how I am with my Playstation. If I rip a movie and put it on my PS3, I usually forget I have it and never watch it, whereas if it's on DVD I'm constantly reminded of it because my DVDs are sitting out by my TV.
What do you use to encode your movies once you rip them? Handbrake? I've been reluctant to digitally convert a lot of my movies because I'm really anal about picture and audio quality and I want to encode my movies with the best of both (stuff that I rent and rip I don't really care about since I usually delete the rip after I watch it).
I was the same way in 2000/2001 when I first started collecting DVDs. I was buying stuff I liked, loved, remotely liked. Really anything I had a remote interest in I bought, which led to me accumulating a lot of titles that, a few years later, I ended up dumping. I did not allow this to happen with Blu-Ray, which I began collecting in Jan. 2008 when I bought my PS3. I've been much more selective with Blu-Ray, but have still bought titles that I've dumped later on, although this number is far less than the number of DVDs I've dumped over the years (3-4 Blu-Rays since 2008 compared to 200+ DVDs that I've dumped between 2000 and now). Ironically, the amount of movies I own hasn't seen much fluctuation in the last two years or so. The number has stayed around 850, so I must be buying enough to off set any change from the ones I've been getting rid of.
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